Listening to MM, quote of the year:


"BB makes Kunitz look like Mike Bossy" Classic!
- sammy87

Kunitz might feel a little down about not scoring in 17 games or whatever it is. Meanwhile BB is so excited to have stayed healthy enough *to be* in the lineup for 17 games. Perspective.

That is very true. Other teams also have done a better job with drafting/developing players than Shero did so they had young players on cheap contracts that would contribute. Even signing UFAs on fair-value contracts will expend the available cap if the team doesn't have any players contributing on cost-effective ELCs and bridge contracts. Which is exactly why trading away picks for rentals while also never trading away rentals to regain some picks leads to a self-fulfilling cycle.
- jfkst1

I agree, to an extent... yes trading away your picks for rentals doesn't give you anything to develop, and the picks they did have... they drafted defensemen, which, this year might not be paying dividends, but in the next few years when Pouliot/Dumo/Harrington DO crack the lineup for regular playing time, everyone will realize that they did a decent job drafting those players... as long as they don't trade them away ala Depres. BUT There is something to be said for a management that goes all in (trading for Morrow, Iginla, etc.) I respect that, and enjoy it. If the Pens had beaten the Bruins int he ECF, and maybe beaten the Hawks, this arguement is moot. But they didn't, so here we are. I, personally do not find a problem with going all in to win like Shero did at times. He chose not to waste 87/71's prime. If it worked out differently, like I said, we'd all be stoked that we had 2 or 3 cups in the past few years, but winning the cup is a lot harder than people think...

Kunitz might feel a little down about not scoring in 17 games or whatever it is. Meanwhile BB is so excited to have stayed healthy enough *to be* in the lineup for 17 games. Perspective.
- Grinder47

He was so excited to return to the lineup he was a healthy scratch.

Kunitz might feel a little down about not scoring in 17 games or whatever it is. Meanwhile BB is so excited to have stayed healthy and in the lineup for 17 games. Perspective.
- Grinder47

He scored in Washington.. 10 games ago. He's had far too many missed chances.
Beau on the other hand... hasn't scored in 21 or 22 games.

I agree, to an extent... yes trading away your picks for rentals doesn't give you anything to develop, and the picks they did have... they drafted defensemen, which, this year might not be paying dividends, but in the next few years when Pouliot/Dumo/Harrington DO crack the lineup for regular playing time, everyone will realize that they did a decent job drafting those players... as long as they don't trade them away ala Depres. BUT There is something to be said for a management that goes all in (trading for Morrow, Iginla, etc.) I respect that, and enjoy it. If the Pens had beaten the Bruins int he ECF, and maybe beaten the Hawks, this arguement is moot. But they didn't, so here we are. I, personally do not find a problem with going all in to win like Shero did at times. He chose not to waste 87/71's prime. If it worked out differently, like I said, we'd all be stoked that we had 2 or 3 cups in the past few years, but winning the cup is a lot harder than people think...
- j.boyd919

Soooooo those dividends of drafting only Dmen will pay off when 87 and 71 are in their 30's? So far DP is the only 1 who looks NHL ready, and he still isn't there yet. Despress gone, Harrington looks lost and Dumo hasn't seen the NHL since December? They had to bring back freakin Lovejoy and Scuds over those Dmen. Personally I think 87 and 71's prime is being wasted. JR is doing a decent job picking up the scraps, but the Pens haven't been a good team in quite some time. I don't expect 3 cups, I do expect some type of effort in the playoffs. They can't even get that. Outside of Kap and Sundquest there are 0 F prospects and those 2 guys are huge ?. Kap left a lot to be desired in the WJ's.

He scored in Washington.. 10 games ago. He's had far too many missed chances.
Beau on the other hand... hasn't scored in 21 or 22 games.
- znagle

Both wells have run dry if you ask me.

He scored in Washington.. 10 games ago. He's had far too many missed chances.
Beau on the other hand... hasn't scored in 21 or 22 games.
- znagle

I think Kunitz has scored 1 in 20 some games?

Maata has played 17 fewer games and on defense and has about as many pts as BB.

I think Kunitz has scored 1 in 20 some games?

Maata has played 17 fewer games and on defense and has about as many pts as BB.
- sammy87

Yeah that would be correct. Didn't realize it was that bad... BB needs AHL time next year.

Both wells have run dry if you ask me.
- powerhouse

I really don't think BB ever had a well to be run dry in the first place.

He scored in Washington.. 10 games ago. He's had far too many missed chances.
Beau on the other hand... hasn't scored in 21 or 22 games.
- znagle

Yep but lets keep pushing him into the top six. Meanwhile Downie, maybe the most likable, and simply best hockey player in the bottom six never gets his shot. Downie never getting legit top six time, and simply never changing the powerplay or benching Sid/Malkin from it after months of just plain terrible are my only two legit gripes with the coaching staff.

Yep but lets keep pushing him into the top six. Meanwhile Downie, maybe the most likable, and simply good hockey player in the bottom six never gets his shot. Downie never getting legit top six time, and simply never changing the powerplay or benching Sid/Malkin from it after months of just plain terrible are my only two legit gripes with the coaching staff.
- Grinder47

With PH out there is no reason to bump Kunitz down. Yeah Id give Downie some time up there. Downie can play, but Adams, Ebbett and BB don't belong in the NHL, Spaling sucks, Sutter sucks, still haven't seen the big deal about Winnick but him and either of the other guys could swap jerseys and I don't think anyone would know. And thats why the Pens suck.

I agree, to an extent... yes trading away your picks for rentals doesn't give you anything to develop, and the picks they did have... they drafted defensemen, which, this year might not be paying dividends, but in the next few years when Pouliot/Dumo/Harrington DO crack the lineup for regular playing time, everyone will realize that they did a decent job drafting those players... as long as they don't trade them away ala Depres. BUT There is something to be said for a management that goes all in (trading for Morrow, Iginla, etc.) I respect that, and enjoy it. If the Pens had beaten the Bruins int he ECF, and maybe beaten the Hawks, this arguement is moot. But they didn't, so here we are. I, personally do not find a problem with going all in to win like Shero did at times. He chose not to waste 87/71's prime. If it worked out differently, like I said, we'd all be stoked that we had 2 or 3 cups in the past few years, but winning the cup is a lot harder than people think...
- j.boyd919

I don't think fans have a problem with "going all in" occasionally. The problem to me is when "all in" has been the philosophy for so many deadlines that there is a lack of capable young roster depth players due to trading picks/prospects for so long. There are just as many misses in UFA acquisitions as hits. I think some fans are forgetting that based on this year's successes. I'd also add that with the increased reliance on analytics, the cost for quality UFAs is going to go up as more teams identify what is more valuable to long term success than they used to.

Soooooo those dividends of drafting only Dmen will pay off when 87 and 71 are in their 30's? So far DP is the only 1 who looks NHL ready, and he still isn't there yet. Despress gone, Harrington looks lost and Dumo hasn't seen the NHL since December? They had to bring back freakin Lovejoy and Scuds over those Dmen. Personally I think 87 and 71's prime is being wasted. JR is doing a decent job picking up the scraps, but the Pens haven't been a good team in quite some time. I don't expect 3 cups, I do expect some type of effort in the playoffs. They can't even get that. Outside of Kap and Sundquest there are 0 F prospects and those 2 guys are huge ?. Kap left a lot to be desired in the WJ's.
- sammy87

Dumo and Harrington are 23 and 22 years old, defensemen are usually ready around 24/25 for full NHL time. They progress a lot slower than forwards, but having a defensive corp of Letang, Maatta, Pouliot, Dumolin, Harrington, filler in the next few years is a fairly cheap and extremely skilled corp. To say the Pens haven't been good in quite some time is absurd. They were in the ECF 2 years ago, TWO. Yes they got swept, but making to the ECF is STILL an accomplishment that MANY teams cannot say they have done. Ultimately, the Cup is always the goal for this team, but to say they haven't been good for some time, is pretty ridiculous. Looking at Detroit, their last 2 SC trips.. Dats was 29-30, and Z was 27-28? Having that D corp up there, assuming they are ready gives the GM the flexibility to go out and find solid forwards to build the rest of the team with since they will most likely be on ELC contracts, or relatively cheap contracts.

Bringing Lovejoy back this season, in my opinion, was the right call. He's a damn good hockey player, he has gotten a lot better since we traded him to ANA. Scuds on the other hand was a mistake, Shero was trying to repeat history, bad contract, bad player (although he has played better this year, I still think he is awful).

Kap is 18.. give him time, he'll be fine. Don't think he'll be ready for a few more years.

I don't think fans have a problem with "going all in" occasionally. The problem to me is when "all in" has been the philosophy for so many deadlines that there is a lack of capable young roster depth players due to trading picks/prospects for so long. There are just as many misses in UFA acquisitions as hits. I think some fans are forgetting that based on this year's successes. I'd also add that with the increased reliance on analytics, the cost for quality UFAs is going to go up as more teams identify what is more valuable to long term success than they used to.
- jfkst1

Definitely agree with this. I do think the Pens scouts (for the draft, free agency, and trades) have been extremely bad as of recent years.

With PH out there is no reason to bump Kunitz down. Yeah Id give Downie some time up there. Downie can play, but Adams, Ebbett and BB don't belong in the NHL, Spaling sucks, Sutter sucks, still haven't seen the big deal about Winnick but him and either of the other guys could swap jerseys and I don't think anyone would know. And thats why the Pens suck.
- sammy87

Adams has one last playoffs in him. Always plays good in the playoffs. Ebbett is simply a call up cant really complain about him. BB is bad and should retire. As far as pens sucking I really don't care at this point. I have started to believe that regular season has little to do with playoff hockey. Make it in, own the front of the other net, control the front of yours and you have a chance.

Adams has one last playoffs in him. Always plays good in the playoffs. Ebbett is simply a call up cant really complain about him. BB is bad and should retire. As far as pens sucking I really don't care at this point. I have started to believe that regular season has little to do with playoff hockey. Make it in, own the front of the other net, control the front of yours and you have a chance.
- Grinder47

Adams isn't even a good AHL player. His rotting carcass doesn't belong on the ice in the NHL. Not even for minimal minutes on the 4th line and PK.

Adams isn't even a good AHL player. His rotting carcass doesn't belong on the ice in the NHL. Not even for minimal minutes on the 4th line and PK.
- jfkst1

Agreed.

Adams has one last playoffs in him. Always plays good in the playoffs. Ebbett is simply a call up cant really complain about him. BB is bad and should retire. As far as pens sucking I really don't care at this point. I have started to believe that regular season has little to do with playoff hockey. Make it in, own the front of the other net, control the front of yours and you have a chance.
- Grinder47

Playoffs have always been a different animal. Wings fans have never cared much for the regular season. Problem is Pens have farted out during the playoffs and can't put much effort on the ice which is why I think they have sucked. CBJ series, not scoring vs the Rags last year, almost losing to NYI, embarrassed by Philly, 2 best players can't score vs BOS, Mario hasn't put a quality product on the ice for the playoffs in several years.

Playoffs have always been a different animal. Wings fans have never cared much for the regular season. Problem is Pens have farted out during the playoffs and can't put much effort on the ice which is why I think they have sucked. CBJ series, not scoring vs the Rags last year, almost losing to NYI, embarrassed by Philly, 2 best players can't score vs BOS, Mario hasn't put a quality product on the ice for the playoffs in several years.
- sammy87

The way you say it is like the other teams don't exist at all... they're just there... but they are playing hockey too, and did it quite well against the Pens, gotta give credit where credit is due.

The way you say it is like the other teams don't exist at all... they're just there... but they are playing hockey too, and did it quite well against the Pens, gotta give credit where credit is due.
- j.boyd919

I don't expect the Pens to win the cup every year. What I do expect is some type of effort in the playoffs. They literally got circles skated around them by NYI, Rags, CBJ. Far inferior teams. But they can't score goals. I just expect more out of 87 and 71.

The Pens biggest failure is their farm system and developmental program. The Wings are the gold standard in the NHL. Outside of DP the Pens have nothing for next season that can make an impact, so once again over pay UFA's and trade away futures to put a team together.

I don't expect the Pens to win the cup every year. What I do expect is some type of effort in the playoffs. They literally got circles skated around them by NYI, Rags, CBJ. Far inferior teams. But they can't score goals. I just expect more out of 87 and 71.

The Pens biggest failure is their farm system and developmental program. The Wings are the gold standard in the NHL. Outside of DP the Pens have nothing for next season that can make an impact, so once again over pay UFA's and trade away futures to put a team together.
- sammy87

Rags made it to SCF.. wouldn't call them inferior.

Not true, they have Olli Maatta as well, as long as his recovery goes well.. Can't forget about him either.

Adams isn't even a good AHL player. His rotting carcass doesn't belong on the ice in the NHL. Not even for minimal minutes on the 4th line and PK.
- jfkst1

Spoken like a true pens fan whose only outside source of information on Pens hockey is Ryan Wilson.

Rags made it to SCF.. wouldn't call them inferior.

Not true, they have Olli Maatta as well, as long as his recovery goes well.. Can't forget about him either.
- j.boyd919

Are you seriously ok with the product the Pens have put on the ice the last 5 playoffs?

As far as D goes, next year its 58 and 3. Martin and Hoff will be gone. I like both those guys, but unless DP really takes his game to a whole other level, not much to be excited for.

Playoffs have always been a different animal. Wings fans have never cared much for the regular season. Problem is Pens have farted out during the playoffs and can't put much effort on the ice which is why I think they have sucked. CBJ series, not scoring vs the Rags last year, almost losing to NYI, embarrassed by Philly, 2 best players can't score vs BOS, Mario hasn't put a quality product on the ice for the playoffs in several years.
- sammy87

The core of the team hasn't developed since 2009. Bylsma really ruined things in that respect. Crosby is prone to the same mistakes as before. The Penguins have no systemic defending scheme; the strategy of getting the puck away from the other team has remained 'have MAF freeze it'. Malkin still has a limited role. There is not a real identity to this team.

The PP? 10 years for 87 and 71 (and I suppose 58) to figure that out and it looks as disorganized as it ever has.

I would have developed Malkin as a match-up and PK monster who gives me 18 minutes a night and 85-90 points. We're always talking about who the other team will match up against Pittsburgh; I would rather have their top C worried about Malkin eating his lunch. The complimentary players don't have roles and certainly seeing Daniel Winnik play his role has only amplified how poorly the players through the years have been slotted in and how bare the systems cupboard has been.

The core of the team hasn't developed since 2009. Bylsma really ruined things in that respect. Crosby is prone to the same mistakes as before. The Penguins have no systemic defending scheme; the strategy of getting the puck away from the other team has remained 'have MAF freeze it'. Malkin still has a limited role. There is not a real identity to this team.

The PP? 10 years for 87 and 71 (and I suppose 58) to figure that out and it looks as disorganized as it ever has.

I would have developed Malkin as a match-up and PK monster who gives me 18 minutes a night and 85-90 points. We're always talking about who the other team will match up against Pittsburgh; I would rather have their top C worried about Malkin eating his lunch. The complimentary players don't have roles and certainly seeing Daniel Winnik play his role has only amplified how poorly the players through the years have been slotted in and how bare the systems cupboard has been.
- Johnny Wrath

Crosby is better suited as a matchup center I think. Malkin is Russian.