It reminds me of last years playoffs. Night after night he sucks and yet he's right back out there.
- madmike71

Who has any confidence is this staff playing pouliot over scuderi when erhoff comes back?

Who has any confidence is this staff playing pouliot over scuderi when erhoff comes back?
- buckster2342

I think you'll see Pouliot and Cole taking turns.

I think you'll see Pouiot and Cole taking turns.
- madmike71

Which is kind of what they're doing with Downie/Adams/Bennett. Three dogs, two bones.

I kind of like the defensive corps without Ehrhoff.

High quality road win against a talented team that didn't quit at 4-0.

Who has any confidence is this staff playing pouliot over scuderi when erhoff comes back?
- buckster2342

I have a hard time buying HCMJ doesn't see how great 51 is playing. But then again 27 got a sweater tonight.

Which is kind of what they're doing with Downie/Adams/Bennett. Three dogs, two bones.

I kind of like the defensive corps without Ehrhoff.
- hardnosed

I don't have a problem with it. Regardless of what some think, Scuds is important to the PK. As far as Hoff goes... Just depends on what player is showing up. He's been all over the map this year. Handful of great games, handful of terrible games and a whole bunch of average. He will be playing if he's healthy.....guaranteed.

He will be playing if he's healthy.....guaranteed.
- madmike71

I agree. But his status in that Washington game where he played wasn't encouraging. And then he got hit a couple of more times.

He wasn't playing well enough to justify playing him if he's any kind of shaky due to the head injury.

I don't have a problem with it. Regardless of what some think, Scuds is important to the PK. As far as Hoff goes... Just depends on what player is showing up. He's been all over the map this year. Handful of great games, handful of terrible games and a whole bunch of average. He will be playing if he's healthy.....guaranteed.
- madmike71

I agree. Lovejoy is back for a teason. Lets embrace.huberdeau is looked at as McKinnon .despres always played on good teams. Does it make him good. Hash tag how did tj Brodie slide??

Yep, I needed "advanced" stats to determine that Craig Adams isn't a very good 5 on 5 hockey player. Before that I always thought he was the second coming of Theo Fleury.
- hardnosed

There is nothing ‘advanced’ about counting in-game events. Proxy measures of puck possession, albeit Corsi, or Fenwick, correlate with GF% and thus, winning probability. No surprises here. The usage of, or reliance on shot attempt data has to do with sample size. During the course of a game, there are more shot events than goals (i.e. more data points to collect & measure). dCorsi is a measure towards quantifying a players ability to keep the puck away from their opponent and/or retrieve it quickly. The Kopitars, Beregons, etc… dominate the game in this area. Subsequently, a team stacked with four lines that can drive possession should lead to higher winning percentages (e.g. LAK vs. EDM). dCorsi also incorporates context/player usage into the mix. Here, we’re talking about effects like zone starts, outcome of face-offs, teammates, quality of competition, home/away, and score. In short, dCosri is tracking shot differential given the many factors that influence the game. Blue bubbles = players performing above their usage (i.e. driving positive position); red = players under performing in their role (i.e. getting pummeled by the opponent).

It’s not rocket science. My point, in the shift I referenced, was that the eye test and the quantitative measures of usage/ performance complimented one another. Again, no surprises, because we’re talking about the frequency of on ice-events, so they should jive.

Tonight’s linemate data for #27 (courtesy of Natural Stat Trick) – scroll down to Penguins Linemates and click away:
http://www.naturalstattri...eason=20142015&game=20969

Bad combo #40, #13, (both CF=3/ CA = 9) #12, and #51 (both CF = 0/ CA = 8). To RW’s point, the bottom six is not Cup contending caliber, ESPECIALLY when the trend continues game after game after game….

There is nothing ‘advanced’ about counting in-game events. Proxy measures of puck possession, albeit Corsi, or Fenwick, correlate with GF% and thus, winning probability. No surprises here. The usage of, or reliance on shot attempt data has to do with sample size. During the course of a game, there are more shot events than goals (i.e. more data points to collect & measure). dCorsi is a measure towards quantifying a players ability to keep the puck away from their opponent and/or retrieve it quickly. The Kopitars, Beregons, etc… dominate the game in this area. Subsequently, a team stacked with four lines that can drive possession should lead to higher winning percentages (e.g. LAK vs. EDM). dCorsi also incorporates context/player usage into the mix. Here, we’re talking about effects like zone starts, outcome of face-offs, teammates, quality of competition, home/away, and score. In short, dCosri is tracking shot differential given the many factors that influence the game. Blue bubbles = players performing above their usage (i.e. driving positive position); red = players under performing in their role (i.e. getting pummeled by the opponent).

It’s not rocket science. My point, in the shift I referenced, was that the eye test and the quantitative measures of usage/ performance complimented one another. Again, no surprises, because we’re talking about the frequency of on ice-events, so they should jive.

Tonight’s linemate data for #27 (courtesy of Natural Stat Trick) – scroll down to Penguins Linemates and click away:
http://www.naturalstattri...eason=20142015&game=20969

Bad combo #40, #13, (both CF=3/ CA = 9) #12, and #51 (both CF = 0/ CA = 8). To RW’s point, the bottom six is not Cup contending caliber, ESPECIALLY when the trend continues game after game after game….



- out_of_market

This is an excellent post.

I have a hard time buying HCMJ doesn't see how great 51 is playing. But then again 27 got a sweater tonight.
- Sell My Monkey

And since they won, adams will be back tomorrow.

I agree. Lovejoy is back for a teason. Lets embrace.huberdeau is looked at as McKinnon .despres always played on good teams. Does it make him good. Hash tag how did tj Brodie slide??
- Jordy8

Wow, is that some type of Americanadian local dialect you need 100 beers to understand?? Wtf?

Wow, is that some type of Americanadian local dialect you need 100 beers to understand?? Wtf?
- Aussiepenguin

#

There is nothing ‘advanced’ about counting in-game events. Proxy measures of puck possession, albeit Corsi, or Fenwick, correlate with GF% and thus, winning probability. No surprises here. The usage of, or reliance on shot attempt data has to do with sample size. During the course of a game, there are more shot events than goals (i.e. more data points to collect & measure). dCorsi is a measure towards quantifying a players ability to keep the puck away from their opponent and/or retrieve it quickly. The Kopitars, Beregons, etc… dominate the game in this area. Subsequently, a team stacked with four lines that can drive possession should lead to higher winning percentages (e.g. LAK vs. EDM). dCorsi also incorporates context/player usage into the mix. Here, we’re talking about effects like zone starts, outcome of face-offs, teammates, quality of competition, home/away, and score. In short, dCosri is tracking shot differential given the many factors that influence the game. Blue bubbles = players performing above their usage (i.e. driving positive position); red = players under performing in their role (i.e. getting pummeled by the opponent).

It’s not rocket science. My point, in the shift I referenced, was that the eye test and the quantitative measures of usage/ performance complimented one another. Again, no surprises, because we’re talking about the frequency of on ice-events, so they should jive.

Tonight’s linemate data for #27 (courtesy of Natural Stat Trick) – scroll down to Penguins Linemates and click away:
http://www.naturalstattri...eason=20142015&game=20969

Bad combo #40, #13, (both CF=3/ CA = 9) #12, and #51 (both CF = 0/ CA = 8). To RW’s point, the bottom six is not Cup contending caliber, ESPECIALLY when the trend continues game after game after game….



- out_of_market

Counting shots to calculate a result by using a formula = corrupt data due to the source of the data, shots. Who counts the shots & what actually is counted as a shot - mirky water already.

Then the word should. In any maths calculation or formula should isn't used unless unknowns are considered then the outcome is not an exact result & can be changed. math is close if not being a type of science & is precise when all data is presented & relevant. So in the context above the word 'should' should be changed to can - a little less dramatic.

More possession doesn't always create more goals. I've seen this said before & it's not correct. Possession numbers in my opinion have limited impact on goal numbers ie: just because a player has great possession numbers doesn't mean he can score more goals than some with less. A team that has better possession numbers doesn't always score & win. You cannot score without the puck but having the puck doesn't mean you will score. An example of this would be SHG to put it into a basic state - just because you hold an advantage doesn't mean you will score the goal.

Then you imply dcorsi being a math calculation used to find reputable results of a sports game - it's not. How many games are the winners not the team with the best results in dcorsi or any of the advanced stats? Sport has many variables that dictate a result, & as I said earlier at any given time in any given game any given player can score a GWG. Science predicts outcomes using mathematical formula, advanced stats 'match' data that has occurred & is in the past. You cannot predict how a player will play using your dcorsi. You cannot predict who will win a game nor who will score. Your data specifies (by partly averaging data results), how a player has played previously, & from that you can predict how he 'might' play in the future.

To win the Stanley Cup, the worst player in the history of the game has the potential to win the Con Smythe trophy whether you like it or not! The worst 4th line in history can produce goals & win games.

I didn't see or hear the game again today but I did follow on the NHL app. Where does the dcorsi number show hits per game? How many hits did Lapierre complete? How did that affect the outcome of the game? Did it affect the outcome? The Pens won so if we average out reasons, surely hitting would factor & the guys doing the hitting be responsible? Did Lapierre contribute to the win?

Do the numbers factor in physical pressure in the results? Do players react differently on the puck depending on whether Marcel Goc is forechecking or Maxim Lapierre? Where are the stats for that 'factor' of a NHL game?

I read here I think or a link that your eyes lie, they are influenced by what you think.

So many things win or lose games, that's why teams that have not so good numbers beat teams with better paper form or advanced statistics.

It's a no win for an argument fore or against the bottom line. When the top lines are scoring it's just as well because the bottom 6 aren't. When the top 6 don't & we lose it's because the secondary scoring or bottom 6 is crap - NO mention of the lack of production from our D corp - ever???? Team sports is just that - team sport, everyone playing together to win. No team has the firepower we have in the top 2 C, but maybe they compensate with a better all round forward group that have 2 line players playing 3rd or 4th?

Who will win - I can guess, but I guarantee you that your numbers cannot tell us in any particular game.

Counting shots to calculate a result by using a formula = corrupt data due to the source of the data, shots. Who counts the shots & what actually is counted as a shot - mirky water already.

Then the word should. In any maths calculation or formula should isn't used unless unknowns are considered then the outcome is not an exact result & can be changed. math is close if not being a type of science & is precise when all data is presented & relevant. So in the context above the word 'should' should be changed to can - a little less dramatic.

More possession doesn't always create more goals. I've seen this said before & it's not correct. Possession numbers in my opinion have limited impact on goal numbers ie: just because a player has great possession numbers doesn't mean he can score more goals than some with less. A team that has better possession numbers doesn't always score & win. You cannot score without the puck but having the puck doesn't mean you will score. An example of this would be SHG to put it into a basic state - just because you hold an advantage doesn't mean you will score the goal.

Then you imply dcorsi being a math calculation used to find reputable results of a sports game - it's not. How many games are the winners not the team with the best results in dcorsi or any of the advanced stats? Sport has many variables that dictate a result, & as I said earlier at any given time in any given game any given player can score a GWG. Science predicts outcomes using mathematical formula, advanced stats 'match' data that has occurred & is in the past. You cannot predict how a player will play using your dcorsi. You cannot predict who will win a game nor who will score. Your data specifies (by partly averaging data results), how a player has played previously, & from that you can predict how he 'might' play in the future.

To win the Stanley Cup, the worst player in the history of the game has the potential to win the Con Smythe trophy whether you like it or not! The worst 4th line in history can produce goals & win games.

I didn't see or hear the game again today but I did follow on the NHL app. Where does the dcorsi number show hits per game? How many hits did Lapierre complete? How did that affect the outcome of the game? Did it affect the outcome? The Pens won so if we average out reasons, surely hitting would factor & the guys doing the hitting be responsible? Did Lapierre contribute to the win?

Do the numbers factor in physical pressure in the results? Do players react differently on the puck depending on whether Marcel Goc is forechecking or Maxim Lapierre? Where are the stats for that 'factor' of a NHL game?

I read here I think or a link that your eyes lie, they are influenced by what you think.

So many things win or lose games, that's why teams that have not so good numbers beat teams with better paper form or advanced statistics.

It's a no win for an argument fore or against the bottom line. When the top lines are scoring it's just as well because the bottom 6 aren't. When the top 6 don't & we lose it's because the secondary scoring or bottom 6 is crap - NO mention of the lack of production from our D corp - ever???? Team sports is just that - team sport, everyone playing together to win. No team has the firepower we have in the top 2 C, but maybe they compensate with a better all round forward group that have 2 line players playing 3rd or 4th?

Who will win - I can guess, but I guarantee you that your numbers cannot tell us in any particular game.
- Aussiepenguin

this is an even more excellent post

Can't you guys just be happy about our win? Btw, I hope HCMJ don't keep playing Adams over Downie. It would be a big mistake. Ehrhoff is very good and hopefully we'll see him Back soon. He has hockey smarts and is skilled. I'd rotate Scuderi and Cole.

All of our fourth line players were a minus, BTW.

Malkin 7 goals in 7 games = Impressive Geno Machino.

All of our fourth line players were a minus, BTW.

Malkin 7 goals in 7 games = Impressive Geno Machino.
- powerhouse

We Still have to find the right combinations for the bottom lines. Downie would be a starter for my team ahead of Adams.

We Still have to find the right combinations for the bottom lines. Downie would be a starter for my team ahead of Adams.
- Barnaby36

As much as I defend Adams, I full agree. Though part of me wouldn't mind seeing what Adams/Spaling/Downie looks like as long as they're shuffling things around.

Goc and Lapierre have been equally ineffective in that 4th line center role. Goc had the edge on faceoffs, Lapierre has the edge on hits. Both of them are offensive black holes.

Spaling is a good faceoff guy and has more skill and talent than either of them, if he's the pivot it could stir could things.

Like I said last night though, the 4th line was playing a LOT after it got to 3-0, which was the right thing to do with another game tonight. In the playoffs they'll be looking at 5 minutes of ESTOI max.

As much as I defend Adams, I full agree. Though part of me wouldn't mind seeing what Adams/Spaling/Downie looks like as long as they're shuffling things around.

Goc and Lapierre have been equally ineffective in that 4th line center role. Goc had the edge on faceoffs, Lapierre has the edge on hits. Both of them are offensive black holes.

Spaling is a good faceoff guy and has more skill and talent than either of them, if he's the pivot it could stir could things.

Like I said last night though, the 4th line was playing a LOT after it got to 3-0, which was the right thing to do with another game tonight. In the playoffs they'll be looking at 5 minutes of ESTOI max.
- hardnosed

Yes, I understand. Just remember, some team, such as the Islander's have a good fourth line they can put out there regularly. That is an asset for their team. We not only don't have a fourth line that is an asset, it's a liability. That won't get you anywhere in the playoffs. Farnham and Rust had much more energy and ability to help the team draw penalties at least. This fourth line is a liability, no way around that. I am very disappointed in the management's ability to deal effectively with this ongoing problem.

AAAAHHHHHH! I'm back. Ban cherry popped. Sorta bittersweet you know?

Yes, I understand. Just remember, some team, such as the Islander's have a good fourth line they can put out there regularly. That is an asset for their team. We not only don't have a fourth line that is an asset, it's a liability. That won't get you anywhere in the playoffs. Farnham and Rust had much more energy and ability to help the team draw penalties at least. This fourth line is a liability, no way around that. I am very disappointed in the management's ability to deal effectively with this ongoing problem.
- powerhouse

Adams and Lapierre deserve to sit for a bit. I don't know if they'd trust Farnham or Rust to play in the playoffs though.

BTW, last night was very emotional for Despres. Watching his interview he could barely talk as he had a trembling voice. Good luck in your carreer bud.

AAAAHHHHHH! I'm back. Ban cherry popped. Sorta bittersweet you know?
- ChrisMS

what'dja do?

AAAAHHHHHH! I'm back. Ban cherry popped. Sorta bittersweet you know?
- ChrisMS

feels quite refreshing doesn't it

AAAAHHHHHH! I'm back. Ban cherry popped. Sorta bittersweet you know?
- ChrisMS

How's you get banned? In the rags or islanders threads?