Your point is irrelevant. Of course I'd rather have a better chance at drafting McDavid. And of course I'd rather move up to 4th.

However, is it worth deliberately tanking? That's the question that needs to be answered.
- newjerseypaul

Yes it. Because as of right the Devils need the Flyers, Senators, Panthers and Bruins all to play sub .500 hockey. The Devils need make up 8 points on Boston while having one less game to do it. Now no matter what the Devils are on pace to get a good player in this year's draft, but I'd rather have them draft one of Marner, Strome, Mcdavid or Eichel over Zacha and Rantanen.

Put it this way, put this exact devils team in red white and blue, it's tank central for Ranger fans.

Maybe he's hoping soneone will fork over a first for toots

Your point is irrelevant. Of course I'd rather have a better chance at drafting McDavid. And of course I'd rather move up to 4th.

However, is it worth deliberately tanking? That's the question that needs to be answered.
- newjerseypaul

If it gets you 15 years of greatness instead of 10 or 5 I'll take tanking right now every damn day of the week.

Todd, it's a very simple answer to why Lou is doing what he's doing....because it's the right thing to do. Fans don't understand that management will never "think" like the fans. They don't overreact when somebody has a bag game or month of hockey, where us fans will be like "trade that POS for anything!!". They do what's best to get them wins and wins now because that's the name of the game (like another poster just posted). If they could do something that can help them win games now (like starting a certain player or playing a certain player more) they will do that over something that might be better for them in the future, where management might not even be here for it. So yes Tootoo is not your typical top-9 forward but they are playing the players who are playing the hardest and giving 110% every night and if the "skilled" players on the Devils played as hard as Tootoo does every night the Devils might not be looking like a lottery team right now. Ryder doesn't hustle, same as Havlet and that's why they are not playing, not because Lou wants to devalue their trade value and as for Jagr, he's just too slow and the Devils need to get faster so he's playing less. On any other team he would be a 3rd liner (and maybe a PP specialist at best) but here on this team we all think he's a 1st line superstar and he's not. Lou can be blamed for a lot of things but playing to win can't be one of them.

If it gets you 15 years of greatness instead of 10 or 5 I'll take tanking right now every damn day of the week.
- blizzzard

Right, I'm not crazy. If you told me that one point down the road the Rangers would have a record low season to draft a player like McDavid, I'd accept it.

Yes it. Because as of right the Devils need the Flyers, Senators, Panthers and Bruins all to play sub .500 hockey. The Devils need make up 8 points on Boston while having one less game to do it. Now no matter what the Devils are on pace to get a good player in this year's draft, but I'd rather have them draft one of Marner, Strome, Mcdavid or Eichel over Zacha and Rantanen.

Put it this way, put this exact devils team in red white and blue, it's tank central for Ranger fans.
- tomburton99

Again, you misconstrue the situation. The payoffs aren't the only thing to be gained from trying to win. I don't think they have any chance of making the playoffs. But that doesn't mean winning games isn't a good thing in other respects.

Also, I couldn't care less what the Rangers would do if they were in this situation.

If it gets you 15 years of greatness instead of 10 or 5 I'll take tanking right now every damn day of the week.
- blizzzard

You and I both no it's not that black and white

All I've been saying is i am ok with short term loss for long term gain. How does these team get better by picking 16th ? LOU doesn't appear to have any interest in trying to move any of our young defense for forwards and he doesn't seem to care about selecting bottom of the barrel players from the draft so how does this team get better ? Oh right the defense. Because LARSSON has looked pretty damn good so far doesn't really mean he will at 27 there is lots of time for things to go wrong and same with severson. So now that that was our only plan ( and boy was it fool proof ) what the hell do we do? Free agents lol don't even get me started on that. Adding picks and trading players for assets are insurance policies the more you have the more chance if something doesn't go the way you I visioned there is plenty more that still might. Can't really say we have that luxury in nj.

Again, you misconstrue the situation. The payoffs aren't the only thing to be gained from trying to win. I don't think they have any chance of making the playoffs. But that doesn't mean winning games isn't a good thing in other respects.

Also, I couldn't care less what the Rangers would do if they were in this situation.
- newjerseypaul

The Devils aren't the Oilers. Most players on the Devils are older with playoff experience. The Devils roster next year. Zajac, Schneider, Henrique, Greene, Elias, Cammalerri, Ruutu, Zubrus all have playoff experience and years in the league. Evan that group of players, 6 of them will be north of 30 to start next season. Please tell me you don't think the Devils need a young talent up front to go along with Gelinas, Merril, Lrsson etc.

Well we can all agree that we want to build a winning organization and get back into being a perennial playoff team.

Moving forward we are going to have a different look no matter what happens this year or what picks we get, like it or not. Over the next two years there will be a lot of veteran players going UFA or retiring, freeing up a lot of cap space.

Outside of Henrique, Cammi, Zajac I don't really see any other forwards that are a lock to extend beyond next season. I am sure there will be a few players kept but there could be upwards of a 75% change of forwards over the next two years.

Again, you misconstrue the situation. The payoffs aren't the only thing to be gained from trying to win. I don't think they have any chance of making the playoffs. But that doesn't mean winning games isn't a good thing in other respects.

Also, I couldn't care less what the Rangers would do if they were in this situation.
- newjerseypaul

NOTHING is gained by winning, Tanking has worked pretty damn good in the past for the pens mutiple times, the blackhawks and to a lesser extent the islanders have done pretty well drafting in the top 5 for half a decade. Also as a season ticket holder for over 30 years, nobody is coming to the devils games regardless of winning or losing, team was one of the best in the sport for 2 decades and attendence was still a joke. Losing would also do one huge thing, it would get ownership to get rid of the management that put the team in this spot in the first place.

Well we can all agree that we want to build a winning organization and get back into being a perennial playoff team.

Moving forward we are going to have a different look no matter what happens this year or what picks we get, like it or not. Over the next two years there will be a lot of veteran players going UFA or retiring, freeing up a lot of cap space.

Outside of Henrique, Cammi, Zajac I don't really see any other forwards that are a lock to extend beyond next season. I am sure there will be a few players kept but there could be upwards of a 75% change of forwards over the next two years.
- TRDevil

Elias and Ruttu have full NMC, Zubrus a NTC. Gotta assume the Devils keep them too.

NOTHING is gained by winning, Tanking has worked pretty damn good in the past for the pens mutiple times, the blackhawks and to a lesser extent the islanders have done pretty well drafting in the top 5 for half a decade. Also as a season ticket holder for over 30 years, nobody is coming to the devils games regardless of winning or losing, team was one of the best in the sport for 2 decades and attendence was still a joke. Losing would also do one huge thing, it would get ownership to get rid of the management that put the team in this spot in the first place.
- devfan30

After reading your first line, I'm not even gonna bother reading the rest of your post.

Elias and Ruttu have full NMC, Zubrus a NTC. Gotta assume the Devils keep them too.
- tomburton99

I was projecting into 16-17, next year 15-16, yes Elias, Ruutie and Zubie will be with us I am all but certain.

I was projecting into 16-17, next year 15-16, yes Elias, Ruutie and Zubie will be with us I am all but certain.
- TRDevil

Sorry, didn't realize that.

After reading your first line, I'm not even gonna bother reading the rest of your post.
- newjerseypaul

Tell me, other than Larsson, Merrill and Gelinas, who on the devils roster gains anything from winning?

Elias: 3 cups
Jagr: 2 cups
Gomez: 2 cups
Zajac: 1 SCF appearance.
Henrique: 1 SCF appearance.
Zubrus: 36 years old, multiple SCF appearances
Ruutu: 32 years old
Cammalerri: 32 years old

The list goes on and on.

Tell me, other than Larsson, Merrill and Gelinas, who on the devils roster gains anything from winning?

Elias: 3 cups
Jagr: 2 cups
Gomez: 2 cups
Zajac: 1 SCF appearance.
Henrique: 1 SCF appearance.
Zubrus: 36 years old, multiple SCF appearances
Ruutu: 32 years old
Cammalerri: 32 years old

The list goes on and on.
- tomburton99

I actually don't understand your point. I think every player regardless of age or Stanley cups gains confidence from winning. And overall, winning improves camaraderie, the player-coach relationship, player-management relationship, team identity, etc.

To say that Henrique doesn't gain anything from winning because he played in the Stanley Cup Final once is ludicrous.

Tell me, other than Larsson, Merrill and Gelinas, who on the devils roster gains anything from winning?

Elias: 3 cups
Jagr: 2 cups
Gomez: 2 cups
Zajac: 1 SCF appearance.
Henrique: 1 SCF appearance.
Zubrus: 36 years old, multiple SCF appearances
Ruutu: 32 years old
Cammalerri: 32 years old

The list goes on and on.
- tomburton99

Also, Schneider. He just broke a personal record for most games won in a season.

I actually don't understand your point. I think every player regardless of age or Stanley cups gains confidence from winning. And overall, winning improves camaraderie, the player-coach relationship, player-management relationship, team identity, etc.

To say that Henrique doesn't gain anything from winning because he played in the Stanley Cup Final once is ludicrous.
- newjerseypaul

He's shouldn't need to learn how to win. He's been part of team that hasn't done it already. Again, the only players that have their growth helped by winning are the 3 young defensemen on the roster. If you don't think the devils should sell, get younger and faster, than you live in a fantasy world.

Also, Schneider. He just broke a personal record for most games won in a season.
- newjerseypaul

You mean the same Schneider that is almost 29 and has played actual playoff and SCF games needs to experience of of wining to improve his game? Ok.

He's shouldn't need to learn how to win. He's been part of team that hasn't done it already. Again, the only players that have their growth helped by winning are the 3 young defensemen on the roster. If you don't think the devils should sell, get younger and faster, than you live in a fantasy world.
- tomburton99

See, now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that I don't want to Devils to make trades before the deadline and get younger and faster. The only point I've been arguing this whole time --which everybody has such a huge problem with -- is that it's good for the Devils to play hard and win, instead of tank.

That's it.

You mean the same Schneider that is almost 29 and has played actual playoff and SCF games needs to experience of of wining to improve his game? Ok.
- tomburton99

And yes, Schneider's game will improve the more he wins. Ask any goalie who has ever played a game of hockey. Your confidence grows and you get better as you win more.

See, now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that I don't want to Devils to make trades before the deadline and get younger and faster. The only point I've been arguing this whole time --which everybody has such a huge problem with -- is that it's good for the Devils to play hard and win, instead of tank.

That's it.
- newjerseypaul

If the Devils keep winning, than that would mean that they would want to chance at a playoff spot Right? Follow me. I know, it's difficult. If they think they are still in it, which LL has stated that's why Jagr trade talks are on hold. Then if they think they can win, they would think they might need to add at the TD instead of selling. So for the Devils to win, they would need to win at .790 clip the rest of the way to get to 95 points. They would need to win 18 at of their last 23 games. Is that possible, sure. It's it proabable, not really. The only thing the devils can do now by winning a few more games is play playoff spoiler prehaps. Won't help the prospect pool or their chance at getting a top 6 player under 30.

I just reflected on what someone posted before PDB was fired and it kind of puts something into perspective.

The post was about the fact that that players will play to win no matter what the management gives them to work with. Same as coaches. Players and coaches don't tank.

A GM however, has a different role in decision making. The GM has to play the chess game of whether to tank to rebuild or not. Unless that particular GM is also head coach

That crafty old buzzard is staying behind the bench so he can be absolved from persecution for being old school and not tanking. What a character Lou is. Maybe I'm crazy but I think I am on to something.

And yes, Schneider's game will improve the more he wins. Ask any goalie who has ever played a game of hockey. Your confidence grows and you get better as you win more.
- newjerseypaul

The Devils can't win most of the games that Schneider plays well in anyway. You wanna know why, it's because the Devils score 2.19 goals per game, which ranks 27 out of 30 teams.

Schneider ranks in the top in Goals against, Shots faced, saves made, save percentage and goals against average. He also ranks 2nd in losses.

So again it sure like like the devils can't really gain much by winning.