Plus Minus is a discredited stat and is meaningless. - James_Tanner
While i dont live and die by plus/minus and generally hold that it's not a very useful stat when a player has a 36pt swing in +/- i think it says something.
Corsi is shots for and against while a player is on the ice, plus minus is goals for and against while a player is on the ice. I know it was concluded that the sample size for goals has to be waaaaay larger but still i think that there is at least some value to it.
Its about context and using stats the right way. Its easy to pick certain ones that support a certain stance and downplay others (not accusing you of this just saying)
Wait a minute didnt you say the only reason Rinne was good was because of the defensemen? - Jeropotato
Don't worry Jeropotato, the Flames couldn't possibly maintain winning ways due to their less than avg Corsi... Tanner and the word "wrong" are good pals.
Don't worry Jeropotato, the Flames couldn't possibly maintain winning ways due to their less than avg Corsi... Tanner and the word "wrong" are good pals. - IggyOnly
The Flames are not maintaining their winning ways and every year there is a team that defies analytics. These are called anomalies and they always crash and burn.
The Flames are not maintaining their winning ways and every year there is a team that defies analytics. These are called anomalies and they always crash and burn. - James_Tanner
I think you Corsi guys have become worse than Scientologists
Rick Nash was the best forward in the NHL playoffs - jimbro83
He was great and I was on here saying so. Got completely roasted for it too.
Nash also has a good Corsi and is having a great year, but I will take a centre with slightly lower offensive production who is the best in the league at driving possession and top 3 in the league defensively over a winger shooting scoring on close to 1 in 5 of his shots.
No question Nash is a great player and he probably will get more votes by the real voters than Kopitar. But Kopitar is the best player in the league, in my opinion, this year.
He was great and I was on here saying so. Got completely roasted for it too.
Nash also has a good Corsi and is having a great year, but I will take a centre with slightly lower offensive production who is the best in the league at driving possession and top 3 in the league defensively over a winger shooting scoring on close to 1 in 5 of his shots.
No question Nash is a great player and he probably will get more votes by the real voters than Kopitar. But Kopitar is the best player in the league, in my opinion, this year. - James_Tanner
High PDO, low Corsi, I am gonna have to take Doughty and Muzzin over Weber. The main reason Nashville is in first is because their goalie has stopped 95% of shots. Consider stopping 92% makes you the best goalie of all time, this is clearly too high and won't continue.
I like Weber, he's a fun player. He's not close to the Hart trophy, not in my opinion anyways. (See what I did there?) - James_Tanner
just fishing for comments hey? I think you might be using some decent bait.
Are you actually Richard Cloutier pretending to be Tanner?
He has shot 18% for 55 games, so it has continued for a long, long time.
He gets no credit for being more accurate with his shot, and perhaps more selective with his shot selection?
He should get credit for his heightened production, not taken back a notch.
Kopitar is a tremendous player, but as someone said, keeping the puck is only half the equation if you aren't helping produce goals.
The way stats are going in the NHL reminds me of soccer. We won the possession war but lost the game. - kingcong39
His career shooting percentage is 12% (all round, where as the 18% is at 5v5 for just this year) no one can score on 20% of their shots, no matter how good they are it can't happen over a long time. 55 games might sound like a big sample, but it isn't.
These are all fair questions though, credit to you for asking why instead of just ripping someone for thinking differently than you. I fully agree its debatable, and I say as much in the main post. There's a ton of ways to look at it and what I value isn't necessarily what you or someone else will.
Nash, Johnson, Tavares, Toews, Crosby, OV, Backstrom, Tarasenko, Getzlaf and a few more all deserve credit for having awesome years. Picking anyone of them is a no lose proposition.
Will you please read your own statement again and then try to explain how this is an argument against Nash winning the Hart? - sniper11
I would think it's quite obvious: While he's racking up the points, he's also been incredibly lucky. For comparison, at 5v5 he's doubling Ovechkin in shooting percentage and has like 12 more goals.
I would think it's quite obvious: While he's racking up the points, he's also been incredibly lucky. For comparison, at 5v5 he's doubling Ovechkin in shooting percentage and has like 12 more goals. - James_Tanner
Not like Nash has a track record for a decade of being one of the best goal scorers in the modern NHL or anything
Honestly, Kopitar is so far off the reservation on some of the stats you posted but you skewed so HEAVILY toward possession and Corsi that you force fed the award to Kopitar based on primarily that
Look, i think Kopitar is a phenomenal player
But this whole he is underrated for his great two way play is really OVERRATING him
defensively is he any better than someone like Toews, Datsyuk, Bergeron, Backes, etc
marginally, at best
Offensively, is he better than any of them? No, and in most cases hes the worst of the that group
Kopitar is one of the best all around forwards in the game, but im sorry, you cant say at 1C scoring at 65 pt pace deserves the Hart or is the best forward in the game.
I get the elite possession stuff, but until he picks up his game offensively, he is nothing more than an elite two way player, not Hart/best forward material
The Flames are not maintaining their winning ways and every year there is a team that defies analytics. These are called anomalies and they always crash and burn. - James_Tanner
6-3-1 in last 10 against: Minn, Edm, WPG, SJ, Pitt, SJ, LA, Van, Boston, Minn.
just fishing for comments hey? I think you might be using some decent bait.
Are you actually Richard Cloutier pretending to be Tanner?
Wow. - SpoiledByOil
Hate to break it to you dude, but there are a lot of good hockey people who think that. I really wish it was ok to have my own opinion.
State it as a fact: called an arrogant ass Take the trouble to make it clear its my opinion only : get told its meaningless Use factual data to make an analysis: told it's stoopid by people who "just know" but never come back with actual data to back up their claims. Post the same thing as everyone else: don't know what would happen here actually, since when my opinion is the same as whats being published I usually don't bother since it would be pointless. Attempt to offer thought provoking original ideas: Told I'm making them up just to "get hits"
Side note: If I wrote MUZZIN BETTER THAN WEBER in the headline, maybe you'd have a point, but I said that in the comment section and anyone seeing already clicked.
Write perhaps the most original and well written hockey blog of all time: get compared to some wierdo with subpar writting skills.
Basically I can't win no matter what with you guys. But honestly, that's OK with me. I am happy to be your punching bag and I am sure deep down you'd just prefer someone to tell you exactly what you want to hear anyways. know what I'm saying?
