Hate to bring it back up again today, but if Sid and Geno can't be counted on to win games in the playoffs, what's the point of paying them almost $20 mil a year just to be decoys so the 3rd and 4th lines can be saddled with the responsibility of winning games?!?
- hardnosed

I think the point is WHEN 87 and 71 get shut down it would be nice to have someone/anyone chip in.....did you read the stat that Toews had 3g in 24 games but Chicago still won?

Mathias
- Bieksa#3

Sutter and Bennett for Kassian and Matthias seems like fair value on the surface. dont feel like looking up the cap/contract ramifications.

Hate to bring it back up again today, but if Sid and Geno can't be counted on to win games in the playoffs, what's the point of paying them almost $20 mil a year just to be decoys so the 3rd and 4th lines can be saddled with the responsibility of winning games?!?
- hardnosed

I know this is pointless with you, but nobody is saying the 3rd and 4th line have to "be saddled with the responsibility of winning games", but you do need secondary scoring to win in the playoffs. The whole team is responsible. Obviously we expect most of our offense from our top two lines, but sometimes they will be shut down. If it is understood that when they are shut down the game is lost then why bother playing? Why is that such a difficult concept? Teams are going to do everything they can to shut down Crosby and Malkin. When you play the Pens, that is your primary defensive objective. If the 3rd and 4th lines can't be counted on to pitch in some goals then the Pens will go nowhere, even if Crosby and Malkin play well.

If we're talking about defenseman that could actually fetch something in a trade. Despres vs. Martin is interesting. I think Despres is too imporant for the future Defense because of his cap hit and he's a motly proven commodity. Trading Martin makes a ton of sense for the future but not much sense for this season.

If Despres were to be traded (I wouldnt), it would need to be like Despres and Sutter for Filppula and Connolly or something.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

This is something I could get on board with as much as I love Despres.

I hope GMJR doesn't go crazy by trading good assets. I wouldn't move Despres or Bennett for quick fixes. I'm not sure one player makes the Pens an elite contender.....especially within this division.

I do think JR can nicely upgrade the team in the offseason.

Hate to bring it back up again today, but if Sid and Geno can't be counted on to win games in the playoffs, what's the point of paying them almost $20 mil a year just to be decoys so the 3rd and 4th lines can be saddled with the responsibility of winning games?!?
- hardnosed

Thats a fair point always... however, I look at it this way.

A team should not be able to shut those 2 and their lines for a whole series. If they are, either something is wrong with them, or we are just bad. I'm going to say we are not that bad. Something being wrong, injury or mentality, can't really predict or weigh in on we'd be (frank)ed no matter what if that occurs.

So, how much should they get shut down? The opposing team is obviously just preparing for them primarily in the playoffs, but being shut out of 3 games a series at MOST is a lot.
Now, Every game our top 2 are not shut down, is not an instant win either... its a higher percentage chance than most teams of course.

So, having a 3rd/4th line that could get a goal or two and steal a game in a series once or twice in the playoffs, can be the difference in winning in 6 to get a breather for the next round, or even having the clutch game 7 win to stay alive.

Just my viewpoint

Think 5 year plan not this season and it is clear what needs to happen. Sutter and Kunitz are on the outs. Those are your assets. Contenders looking for top six scoring will pay for kunitz. Sutter as a top nine should bring back a decent return as well.

This isn't a deep enough team to win a cup. Make some moves for the future and hope something happens this season.

Despres for Tlusty and a conditional 2nd round pick.

3rd round pick if Tlusty signs in Pittsburgh, 2nd rounder if he doesn't.

Despres for Tlusty and a conditional 2nd round pick.

3rd round pick if Tlusty signs in Pittsburgh, 2nd rounder if he doesn't.
- BINGO!

Thats.... not horrid. I'll consider that

Think 5 year plan not this season and it is clear what needs to happen. Sutter and Kunitz are on the outs. Those are your assets. Contenders looking for top six scoring will pay for kunitz. Sutter as a top nine should bring back a decent return as well.

This isn't a deep enough team to win a cup. Make some moves for the future and hope something happens this season.
- usethe1-2-2

If you really feel that way then Martin should absolutely be traded and Ehrhoff needs to be begged to be traded because those two would have the best returns.

Despres for Tlusty and a conditional 2nd round pick.

3rd round pick if Tlusty signs in Pittsburgh, 2nd rounder if he doesn't.
- BINGO!

Hell no.

did you read the stat that Toews had 3g in 24 games but Chicago still won?
- willi

Yep, I read that stat. It had no context. The Blackhawks still got the majority of their goals from their top two lines. Bickell, Sharp and Hossa had 25 goals between them.

Handzus had 3 goals. Bolland had three. Frolik had three. Shaw had 5. Saad had 1.

what about trading an injured dupuis with term left. he's entering the twilight, has had an acl and now a clot (which is very scary - pro athlete, aside) in the last two seasons, could he be worth anything to a team that is already out like buffalo or the oil?

what about trading an injured dupuis with term left. he's entering the twilight, has had an acl and now a clot (which is very scary - pro athlete, aside) in the last two seasons, could he be worth anything to a team that is already out like buffalo or the oil?
- brienstel

I don't think anyone would take that risk... hes not like E Kane, when they know the issue, the timeline, and hes young. This is a possibly career ending injury and hes old.

Despres for Tlusty and a conditional 2nd round pick.

3rd round pick if Tlusty signs in Pittsburgh, 2nd rounder if he doesn't.
- BINGO!

Despres is a 4/5 dman with good potential. Tlusty is a 2nd/3rd liner with no foreseeable potential. Carolina would be including a pick in the trade, not Pittsburgh.

EDIT: misread, that is a fair value

I know this is pointless with you, but nobody is saying the 3rd and 4th line have to "be saddled with the responsibility of winning games", but you do need secondary scoring to win in the playoffs. The whole team is responsible. Obviously we expect most of our offense from our top two lines, but sometimes they will be shut down. If it is understood that when they are shut down the game is lost then why bother playing? Why is that such a difficult concept? Teams are going to do everything they can to shut down Crosby and Malkin. When you play the Pens, that is your primary defensive objective. If the 3rd and 4th lines can't be counted on to pitch in some goals then the Pens will go nowhere, even if Crosby and Malkin play well.
- PensFan1103

Of course you need secondary scoring in the playoffs. But if Malkin and Crosby are consistently shut down, the way they've been for the past few months, the Penguins are going nowhere.

I mean, how many goals do people expect from the 3rd and 4th lines in order to win games when Crosby and Malkin's lines do nothing? 2? Probably still going to lose. 3? Might have a chance. In either case, it's unrealistic to expect the 3rd and 4th lines to produce that much, especially with almost a third of the cap invested in those top two players.

Despres is a 4/5 dman with good potential. Tlusty is a 2nd/3rd liner with no foreseeable potential. Carolina would be including a pick in the trade, not Pittsburgh.
- jfkst1

Oh did I read that backwards? I assumed Carolina was giving us the pick

For everyone who thought Goc could be a great 3c here and that he will improve getting away from Adams/Sill etc... he has 1 point in 11 games with St. Louis. Lapierre only has one point here in 11 games though.
- znagle

I like your style

If you really feel that way then Martin should absolutely be traded and Ehrhoff needs to be begged to be traded because those two would have the best returns.
- jfkst1

I don't have a problem with that. Letange-Despres Pouliot-Dumo Scuderi-Bortz and let it ride. F it. The next five years has more of a chance then this season. Plus, it allows for space to resign Perron.

Despres for Tlusty and a conditional 2nd round pick.

3rd round pick if Tlusty signs in Pittsburgh, 2nd rounder if he doesn't.
- BINGO!

You really don't know value whatsoever. Despres has way more value than that and Tlusty. Tlusty has had a poopty year and is a pending UFA. You do the math.

Think 5 year plan not this season and it is clear what needs to happen. Sutter and Kunitz are on the outs. Those are your assets. Contenders looking for top six scoring will pay for kunitz. Sutter as a top nine should bring back a decent return as well.

This isn't a deep enough team to win a cup. Make some moves for the future and hope something happens this season.
- usethe1-2-2

5 Years gotta be pushing that window. Makes Crosby 32 Malkin 33 and Fleury 35(unless Jarry is the answer).....not ancient and still top tier players but their effectiveness will start declining. This Penguins team is built to win now. Every year that you have 87/71 in their prime plus 58/29 i think you have to make a push. Its the double edged sword of the cap era, peaks and valleys.

Oh did I read that backwards? I assumed Carolina was giving us the pick
- Guile

Yeah I misread it. It is a fair trade offer IMO, I just don't think Rutherford would ever do it.

I've been a fleischman supporter for some time, but only if the Panther can eat some of that cap. He's the type of guy who can play all 3 forward positions and IMO he could easily replace sutter as the 3rd line C. Sutter for fleischman and bergenheim and call it a day.

For everyone who thought Goc could be a great 3c here and that he will improve getting away from Adams/Sill etc... he has 1 point in 11 games with St. Louis. Lapierre only has one point here in 11 games though.
- znagle

How's that PK doing since Goc left?

I don't have a problem with that. Letange-Despres Pouliot-Dumo Scuderi-Bortz and let it ride. F it. The next five years has more of a chance then this season. Plus, it allows for space to resign Perron.
- usethe1-2-2

If we don't win the Cup this year or at very least get to the conference final, Geno is gone along with HCMJ and we rebuild. The time is now, there is no next 5 years.


We will never win anything with Sutter on this team end of story.



F Sutter

WWJJD