Yep, that's it.
- hardnosed

Just curious as to why are you on his high horse? He is a weenie. Very soft. He can not win any battle on the boards. He doesn't block shots.

You have to make the deal while he is on LTIR if I am not mistaken, and then that bonus space is added to our new max for this season?
- Guile

So let me put this in numbers and see if it makes more sense that way.

The Cap Ceiling is $69 million. Let's assume the Pens were all the way up against the Ceiling when they put Dupuis on LTIR, which they weren't flush against it, but they were close. Their new cap ceiling is $72.75 million. Then Maatta goes on LTIR and the cap ceiling is now $73.644167 million. If Ehrhoff goes on LTIR the cap ceiling goes to $77.644167 million, but goes back down to $73.644167 million as soon as he comes off. Nothing else will impact that cap ceiling, LTIR is the only thing that impacts it other than unused cap space, which the Pens do not have since we are over the original $69 million cap ceiling. The Pens current team cap is $73.195 million.

Sorry, 20.5. Better?!?
- hardnosed

yes, thank you.

I'll keep throwing poop out there in hopes Rutherford is actively monitoring hockey buzz:

Sutter + Bennett to LA for Williams and Clifford

So let me put this in numbers and see if it makes more sense that way.

The Cap Ceiling is $69 million. Let's assume the Pens were all the way up against the Ceiling when they put Dupuis on LTIR, which they weren't flush against it, but they were close. Their new cap ceiling is $72.75 million. Then Maatta goes on LTIR and the cap ceiling is now $73.644167 million. If Ehrhoff goes on LTIR the cap ceiling goes to $77.644167 million, but goes back down to $73.644167 million as soon as he comes off. Nothing else will impact that cap ceiling, LTIR is the only thing that impacts it other than unused cap space, which the Pens do not have since we are over the original $69 million cap ceiling. The Pens current team cap is $73.195 million.
- PensFan1103

How did we get all that cap space 2 years ago? And how do we do it again?

I'll keep throwing poop out there in hopes Rutherford is actively monitoring hockey buzz:

Sutter + Bennett to LA for Williams and Clifford
- YouMeAndDupuis9

you posted to late. He's gone for dinner

I'll keep throwing poop out there in hopes Rutherford is actively monitoring hockey buzz:

Sutter + Bennett to LA for Williams and Clifford
- YouMeAndDupuis9

LA would hang up laughing....

How did we get all that cap space 2 years ago? And how do we do it again?
- willi

Unused cap space. The money that you are under the cap that you do not use can be prorated for the remainder of the season. So 2 years ago the Pens were like $3 million under the cap (I don't remember the exact number, just using this for an example) So by the time they hit the trade deadline that $3 million could be used to sign guys worth $9 million because we were only paying them for the time they were on the team (the remaining 1/3 of the season). But that only works with unused cap space. LTIR relief space cannot be banked and prorated for future use.

I'll keep throwing poop out there in hopes Rutherford is actively monitoring hockey buzz:

Sutter + Bennett to LA for Williams and Clifford
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Would need to shed some additional cap space. Sutter and Bennett ($4.2) Williams and Clifford ($4.725) Just barely not enough when you factor in the Pens available $450,000, about $100,000 shy.

So let me put this in numbers and see if it makes more sense that way.

The Cap Ceiling is $69 million. Let's assume the Pens were all the way up against the Ceiling when they put Dupuis on LTIR, which they weren't flush against it, but they were close. Their new cap ceiling is $72.75 million. Then Maatta goes on LTIR and the cap ceiling is now $73.644167 million. If Ehrhoff goes on LTIR the cap ceiling goes to $77.644167 million, but goes back down to $73.644167 million as soon as he comes off. Nothing else will impact that cap ceiling, LTIR is the only thing that impacts it other than unused cap space, which the Pens do not have since we are over the original $69 million cap ceiling. The Pens current team cap is $73.195 million.
- PensFan1103

Something like that... I am not the one to ask for specific cap space rules, but I know its near that. Obviously, we are WELL over the 69 mil cap space right now.

Happy New Year to Brandon Yip and Peter Ing!

Their possescion numbers were awesome when they were struggling.....

What changed in theis 6 game run?

Their netminders started giving them at least av goaltending. If Quick gets his ass into gear they'll make it, if not, a dominant posession team can't carry terrible tending. Just ask the Wild, all year they had the 30th ranked tending in the league. No surprise with Duby coming in and giving Vezina level numbers (won't sustain it) they are back in the race. If he regresses back to the av they are still a chance. If he goes below, then a v good possession team will miss out.
- walshy66

Wait, sooo you're saying a team with better goal-tending has a better chance to win? Ahhh thank goodness the numbers can tell us this stuff!! Okay, I was just being an ass there but seriously both sides of the argument have over the top people. The ohh they are winning because *picks the highest number stat the team has* and when a team is losing its obviously because of *picks the lowest stat the team has*. Then you have the people that don't understand the advance stats and get frustrated with it so they are completely closed minded about them. People just pick the side that back their argument whether right or wrong.

LA would hang up laughing....
- cap1681

Exactly. The need defensemen, not two bad players on Pittsburgh's third line.

He's good on the PK but isn't good defensively 5 on5. On the Pk it's about getting your stick and body in lanes, where 5 on 5 it more about winning board battles and protecting the puck
- willi

Even strength goals against this year: Sutter - 28, Crosby - 39, Malkin - 41.

It can be about winning 5 on 5 battles. But it doesn't have to be. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Sutter is effective 5 on 5 in a different way than many shutdown centers. Keeps players on the perimeter. Means some shots will happen, but not threatening shots. That's why his fancy stats don't look good, but his goals against look just fine.

Something like that... I am not the one to ask for specific cap space rules, but I know its near that. Obviously, we are WELL over the 69 mil cap space right now.
- Guile

I am pretty familiar with them. I really enjoy the team building aspect of hockey, so I took a good bit of time to understand the majority of cap rules when Capgeek was still around. I read through all of their FAQs and information. I understand hockey from a GM perspective a lot more than I do from a coaches perspective. I love watching hockey and love tinkering with the lineup/roster, but not great with the X's and O's. Personally I never played when I was younger so I was never coached on the game. I only started playing adult league once I was in my late 20's so not too much coaching going on there.

Even strength goals against this year: Sutter - 28, Crosby - 39, Malkin - 41.

It can be about winning 5 on 5 battles. But it doesn't have to be. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Sutter is effective 5 on 5 in a different way than many shutdown centers. Keeps players on the perimeter. Means some shots will happen, but not threatening shots. That's why his fancy stats don't look good, but his goals against look just fine.
- hardnosed

I imagine those numbers don't look the same when you consider ice time. Even strength goals against per 60 would be a more accurate representation.

EDIT: Also Quality of Competition is going to play into things. So this is where fancy stats come into play, because I am sure one of them is a 5v5 goals against pre 60 factoring in quality of competition somehow, but I have no clue what that stat is or if there is one.

Even strength goals against this year: Sutter - 28, Crosby - 39, Malkin - 41.

It can be about winning 5 on 5 battles. But it doesn't have to be. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Sutter is effective 5 on 5 in a different way than many shutdown centers. Keeps players on the perimeter. Means some shots will happen, but not threatening shots. That's why his fancy stats don't look good, but his goals against look just fine.
- hardnosed

Craig Adams has only been on the ice for 8 even strength goals this season...

Craig Adams has only been on the ice for 8 even strength goals this season...
- cap1681

First line shutdown center quality right there.

He doesn't block shots.
- chimpira

You're right, he only leads the team's forwards in that category.

I am pretty familiar with them. I really enjoy the team building aspect of hockey, so I took a good bit of time to understand the majority of cap rules when Capgeek was still around. I read through all of their FAQs and information. I understand hockey from a GM perspective a lot more than I do from a coaches perspective. I love watching hockey and love tinkering with the lineup/roster, but not great with the X's and O's. Personally I never played when I was younger so I was never coached on the game. I only started playing adult league once I was in my late 20's so not too much coaching going on there.
- PensFan1103

So... If we obtain a player before Ehrhoff comes off of LTIR, thats basically free money?

Unused cap space. The money that you are under the cap that you do not use can be prorated for the remainder of the season. So 2 years ago the Pens were like $3 million under the cap (I don't remember the exact number, just using this for an example) So by the time they hit the trade deadline that $3 million could be used to sign guys worth $9 million because we were only paying them for the time they were on the team (the remaining 1/3 of the season). But that only works with unused cap space. LTIR relief space cannot be banked and prorated for future use.
- PensFan1103

Good explanation of the difference between LTIR cap space and actual cap space in your last couple posts. Most people dont get that LTIR cant be prorated. I think the Pens can juggle a bit with guys going to WBS to free maybe upto 1mil in space, but basically any trade at this point is going to have to be even money in and out for the most part. The 73-74m cap # you used to account for LTIR could go up a bit I think if they do make a move of sending somebody to WBS(in anticipation of a trade where we use up the last of our 900k-1m in space) then recalling them post deadline when there is effectively no more cap, correct?

I imagine those numbers don't look the same when you consider ice time. Even strength goals against per 60 would be a more accurate representation.
- PensFan1103

As you wish:

Malkin - GA/60 ES - 3.04

Crosby - GA/60 ES - 2.76

Sutter - GA/60 ES - 2.26

I'll keep throwing poop out there in hopes Rutherford is actively monitoring hockey buzz:

Sutter + Bennett to LA for Williams and Clifford
- YouMeAndDupuis9

My buddy is trying to sell Sutter dumo and next yrs 2nd for Kari and winnik to me...

I'm in hopes of tlusty and berg

Perron sid horn
Tlusty geno comeau
Kuni berg bennett
Spaling lap downie

3 balanced lines and no sutter adams or sill...

Then you have
Letang martin
Ehrhoff despres
Scuds pouliot
Borts

As you wish:

Malkin - GA/60 ES - 3.04

Crosby - GA/60 ES - 2.76

Sutter - GA/60 ES - 2.26
- hardnosed

Where'd you get that data. From stats.hockeyanalysis.com, i got:

Malkin - GA/60 ES - 2.37

Crosby - GA/60 ES - 2.06

Sutter - GA/60 ES - 2.01

Adams - GA/60 ES - 1.26

So... If we obtain a player before Ehrhoff comes off of LTIR, thats basically free money?
- Guile

No, because that would not impact our cap ceiling. For example:

current team cap: $73,195,000
Cap Ceiling if Ehrhoff was on LTIR: $77,644,167
Team cap if we add say Bergenheim: $75,945,000


We could then not bring Ehrhoff off of LTIR because our cap ceiling would drop to $73,644,167 and we would be out of compliance with the cap.