You would add to Martin for Andrew Shaw?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Shaw is 23, has term on his contract, and an rfa after his deal expires. Not saying im adding a player, but maybe a late round pick or a low tier prospect. Shaw is a good 3rd line C.

still waiting...

I took a quick peek... the past 5 years most teams with a player ranked up there missed the playoffs entirely.
- ChrisMS

That stat has less meaning than corsi bud, try again.

retaliation penalties are definately the way to win hockey games... but maybe my "newness" just doesnt understand how that works.
- ChrisMS

Downies PIMs are a bit skewed due to 10 min. misconducts he's recieved late in games.

Are you new to hockey? Downie wasn't on the next shift against OV. And after Kuni confronted him it was obvious that OV wasn't going to answer for what he did. And Downie punched a guy that cross checked him in the face
- willi

That's why the "deterrent" thing is such a joke...

Player A:"If you hit one of my teammates, I will kick your butt..."

*Player B drills Player A's teammate*

Player A:"That's it, lets go!"

Player B:"Shut up, I'm not fighting you."

Player A:"Ummm... ok, I'll just punch someone else and put my team short."


And don't bring up the instigator rule.... It's irrelevant. Guys aren't going to Shawn Thornton another player, because A, they might get a big suspension, and B, with free agency, they likely either already know the guy they would be going trying to hurt, or could be a teammate in the near future.

Players don't hate rival players nearly as much as fans do.

A contender isn't trading their #2 dman for a 3rd liner.
- jfkst1

They are if the team is struggling and in a rut, plus having issues with forward depth. That trade would free up 3M in cap space, plus make Sutter even more expendable.

McGinn is hurt. Not a fan of trading Despres for a third line guy even if Colorado is adding. We will need Despres more than McGinn. People are overrating Coyle a tab.
- Oneonta Penguin

I thought they were talking Sutter in those deals and not Depres

Sutter and Bennett for Kassian and Matthias seems like fair value on the surface. dont feel like looking up the cap/contract ramifications.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I love it, but would the Canucks?

Shaw is 23, has term on his contract, and an rfa after his deal expires. Not saying im adding a player, but maybe a late round pick or a low tier prospect. Shaw is a good 3rd line C.
- cap1681

Shaw is a quality 3rd liner and versatile and I would be all for getting him for at the right price. But Martin is too much. Shaw's production is very low this year for playoff 3Cs. Even if the Pens wanted to trade Martin, they could get a better offer than Shaw.

I love it, but would the Canucks?
- Dcoms

It doesn't matter. They owe us 1 for reneging on they Kesler deal

Shaw is 23, has term on his contract, and an rfa after his deal expires. Not saying im adding a player, but maybe a late round pick or a low tier prospect. Shaw is a good 3rd line C.
- cap1681

He's coming to Carolina for Sekera.

John Toperzer ‏@JohnToperzer 10m10 minutes ago

#Pens coach Johnston says Christian Ehrhoff is likely several days from full contact practice. He might be looking at another week.


and he will stay out for another week, then another week....this is a cap move, saving space for the deadline

I thought they were talking Sutter in those deals and not Depres
- willi

Nope, people are all the sudden on board with trading Despres for third line forwards that really don't solve the problem. That is laughable.

The more i think about it, the less i really think forwards should be the focus. Unless they can get a PP beast like Jagr. But probably won't happen.

i think the best thing for the team would be to move Kunitz to line 3. Not because i think he's bad and really deserves to be demoted. I think he's actually looked pretty good lately, other than not scoring. But the reason to move him to line 3 is to put other guys in positions to succeed. the following lines happen.

Perron - Sid - Hornqvist
Comeau (or kunitz) - Geno - Bennett
Kunitz (or Comeau) - Sutter (or IMO Spaling ideally) - Downie
Spaling (or lapierre) - Lapierre (or sutter) - Adams

The team has prioritized keeping Downie and Bennett on RW recently because they're both better there. Downie is simply too good to be on line 4. the team isn't deep enough to put a perfectly useful player out there for 4th line minutes. He needs 3rd line minutes.

Whenever i see someone propose 2nd line for Bennett, people always say that he hasn't earned it. But this lineup isn't about paying dues. It's about putting as many players into a favorable role as possible. Put downie on line 2 and keep bennett on line 3 if that's what you prefer. Whatever.

I don't see how guys in the article (other than Jagr) would be that much of a better bet than the current squad.

They are if the team is struggling and in a rut, plus having issues with forward depth. That trade would free up 3M in cap space, plus make Sutter even more expendable.
- cap1681

No they aren't. Martin will play ~25 minutes/gm in the postseason and Shaw is going to play ~18 minutes/gm. No GM in the league would make that deal. A quality #2D is much more important than a quality #3C. And I hate Sutter as much as anyone, but the deal still makes zero sense unless the Pens are giving up on the season.

Shaw is a quality 3rd liner and versatile and I would be all for getting him for at the right price. But Martin is too much. Shaw's production is very low this year for playoff 3Cs. Even if the Pens wanted to trade Martin, they could get a better offer than Shaw.
- jfkst1

They maybe could get a better offer of picks and prospects, but adding Shaw would benefit this team now and in the near future.

Shaw is 23, has term on his contract, and an rfa after his deal expires. Not saying im adding a player, but maybe a late round pick or a low tier prospect. Shaw is a good 3rd line C.
- cap1681

He is...and value wise it might be fair because Martin is a UFA and all, but for this year, it doesnt make sense to trade top pairing defenseman + for a third line center. Plus it would never work with Chicagos cap.

Nope, people are all the sudden on board with trading Despres for third line forwards that really don't solve the problem. That is laughable.
- Oneonta Penguin

Yeah, Duspres can't/shouldn't be moved. We have to focus on getting Sutter out the door

John Toperzer ‏@JohnToperzer 10m10 minutes ago

#Pens coach Johnston says Christian Ehrhoff is likely several days from full contact practice. He might be looking at another week.


and he will stay out for another week, then another week....this is a cap move, saving space for the deadline
- YouMeAndDupuis9

No, it does not work that way, they save absolutely nothing by keeping him out. The only money they would ever possibly get would be if he was done for the season and they put him on LTIR.

For everyone who thought Goc could be a great 3c here and that he will improve getting away from Adams/Sill etc... he has 1 point in 11 games with St. Louis. Lapierre only has one point here in 11 games though.
- znagle

Good god

Sutter is playing at a 4th line level for shots against, In a checking role. A role where he is supposed to suppress this
Goc whist here was doing that. If Sutter was scoring, providing offense at a level of a 3rd line player his shot suppression ability wouldn't be such a problem.

If we are going to have either player, comparing Goc and Sutter directly, 1M or 3.3M for a player who provides no offense but can stop chances towards your net. That extra 2.3 can be used elsewhere.

I never wanted Goc to stay for his offensive output, it's the same as Sutter, it was his ability to reduce shots against for less money to free up cap space to be used elsewhere on the roster.

Just saw on Chicago's blog that they may be shopping Shaw, and are looking for defensive help in return. He would be an upgrade at the 3C.
- cap1681

9 goals, 6 assists, and he'd be an upgrade?!?

Horrible faceoff guy.

Smaller than Sutter.

No they aren't. Martin will play ~25 minutes/gm in the postseason and Shaw is going to play ~18 minutes/gm. No GM in the league would make that deal. A quality #2D is much more important than a quality #3C. And I hate Sutter as much as anyone, but the deal still makes zero sense unless the Pens are giving up on the season.
- jfkst1

I said before, considering that the majority of the fan base think the Pens have no shot doing anything in the playoffs, they should let the kids get invaluable playoff experience this year. Trade Martin away and let Despres fill his spot, and so down the line. I think if they let Despres play 20+minutes a night, he would surprise a lot of people.

I know this isn't going to happen, but I would be even more confident in Bennett/Spaling/Downie as a 3rd line. See if Sutter can prove anything playing 4th line with Adams and LaPierre.

- PensFan1103

Sutter is better than Spaling. Downie belongs on the 4th line with sheltered minutes. And even if neither of those were true, Sutter's strengths are wasted on a 4th line that has been remade as a physical energy line.

No, it does not work that way, they save absolutely nothing by keeping him out. The only money they would ever possibly get would be if he was done for the season and they put him on LTIR.
- PensFan1103

I thought he was on LTIR already? Or just IR? I thought any player on LTIR got their cap hit added to the cap cieling based on how far the team is current below it.

Hell, I don't know...Botterill will find a way to circumvent the cap, #InBottWeTrust

9 goals, 6 assists, and he'd be an upgrade?!?

Horrible faceoff guy.

Smaller than Sutter.
- hardnosed

Shaw can actually play physical, plus he is at the same FO% as Sutter

Welp, we aren't getting Bergenheim now... Ek said we are in the running