running someone from the other team is a negative... stupid penalies are a negative. I'll take the 10 goals... from someone that doesnt play like an selfish a-hole. if he could be moved as part of a deal for a better winger the pens NEED to make it happen. Top 5 reasons pens are losing so much.... 1. crosby/malkin not playing up to snuff, 2. PP, 3. no backup goalie, 4. crosby dictating the lines to his terms, and 5. Steve Downie
- ChrisMS

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Reason we lose games=not enough Downie.

Did I say anything about scaring the other team? I said he stands up for teammates and that goes along way for team chemistry.
- willi

definately working well... pens chemistry has them winning lots o games lately. He doesnt "stand up for his teammates" it was kunitz who got in Ovie's face after that play. punching a random other player doesnt do anything

The third line has looked better since he's been reunited with Spaling and Bennett. But they've had a good game/bad game thing going on. Just need to find some consistency.

Still, Spaling/Sutter/Bennett is infinitely better than Stempniak/Goc/Bennett.
- hardnosed

I know this isn't going to happen, but I would be even more confident in Bennett/Spaling/Downie as a 3rd line. See if Sutter can prove anything playing 4th line with Adams and LaPierre.

I get what you are saying about the productivity for the 3rd and 4th lines and I agree if we can get 4 goals a series out of them, I would be satisfied and wouldn't put much blame on them unless they were absolutely terrible defensively and gave up a bunch of goals too. I would still feel more comfortable if something was done to push Adams out of the lineup and put somebody with a little more offense in there. I don't think we are losing that much on the PK without him and certainly not losing anything 5v5 without him.

Last years numbers are slightly skewed because so many people moved around, you would really have to look at every goal and see who was playing with who when they scored it. Sutter, Stempniak, and Gibbons all spent time in the top 6 during the playoffs. I don't think Bennett did, but if someone said he played a couple shifts, I wouldn't doubt it.

Never said i liked the idea. Just seeing people put his name into the trade chatter, and saying that if people are hellbent on trading him, at minimum, you need to get a young top 6 winger. I personally think it would be a mistake to trade him at all. He is trending to be a legitimate top 4 d-man who is comfortable in both ends. Plus you can't teach his size.
- cap1681

I agree on the return needing to be substantial. Just can't see team moving him with martin and erhoff set for free agency.

"Mr. Rutherford is absolutely correct. When the Chicago Blackhawks won their last Stanley Cup in 2013 Jonathan Toews had 3 goals in 23 playoff games. Nobody cares or mentions that because the Blackhawks had a proper roster."

Thanks Ryan, I have been saying the above for the past two years. Toews was just awful in the 2013 playoffs but since the Blackhawks were so balanced they could overcome his pathetic scoring. Unfortunately, when Crosby and Malkin were awful against Boston and Crosby against NYR the Pens did not have the depth to overcome that. It is time this team gets more balance but I'm not sure that they will be able to do that because they will have to trade a high priced player either 71 or 58 (They won't trade 87) in the off season. You may not get fair market value but you will get cap space.
- stevens87

Toews and Kane have disappeared plenty of times in the postseason and haven't been nearly as productive as Crosby or Malkin, but since they've won it twice, they are the golden children and escape criticism. I'd love to see them have a 1st round exit and deal with some media scrutiny.

definately working well... pens chemistry has them winning lots o games lately. He doesnt "stand up for his teammates" it was kunitz who got in Ovie's face after that play. punching a random other player doesnt do anything
- ChrisMS

In downies defense he wasn't on the ice

"Mr. Rutherford is absolutely correct. When the Chicago Blackhawks won their last Stanley Cup in 2013 Jonathan Toews had 3 goals in 23 playoff games. Nobody cares or mentions that because the Blackhawks had a proper roster."

Thanks Ryan, I have been saying the above for the past two years. Toews was just awful in the 2013 playoffs but since the Blackhawks were so balanced they could overcome his pathetic scoring. Unfortunately, when Crosby and Malkin were awful against Boston and Crosby against NYR the Pens did not have the depth to overcome that. It is time this team gets more balance but I'm not sure that they will be able to do that because they will have to trade a high priced player either 71 or 58 (They won't trade 87) in the off season. You may not get fair market value but you will get cap space.
- stevens87

I'm not sure 71 or 58 have to go. If our young D can fill the holes next year that would be big $ saved. Plus Sundqvist and/or Kapanen should fill a hole or 2 sometime next season. And if Duper is back we then have a great 3rd liner and if he doesn't come back we get cap space.

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Reason we lose games=not enough Downie.
- Grinder47

Reason we lose connermcdavid sweepstakes = not enough downie.

go look back through the years and see how many teams with a player in the top... oh... say 5 in PIMs won a cup... I'll wait and get educated by yourself, the great sage and eminant wiseman on all things hockey related.

I was thinking more like Ebbett or P-L L Leblond
- willi

Sold.

Anything at all at this point.

At least we can all agree Adams will play his best hockey of the season in the playoffs and score 1 or 2 big goals. Its what great players like him do.

Just saw on Chicago's blog that they may be shopping Shaw, and are looking for defensive help in return. He would be an upgrade at the 3C.

In downies defense he wasn't on the ice
- dbell646

I'll grant you that.still doesnt justify taking a penalty on another player. Reminds me of stories about wipping boys... "see that boy over there getting whipped cause you tortured that stray dog? Arn't you sorry now? meanwhile the kids is making jackoff motions with his hands behind his back

Reason we lose connermcdavid sweepstakes = not enough downie.

go look back through the years and see how many teams with a player in the top... oh... say 5 in PIMs won a cup... I'll wait and get educated by yourself, the great sage and eminant wiseman on all things hockey related.
- ChrisMS

Yep that's how you gain wise valuable knowledge.

Yep that's how you gain wise valuable knowledge.
- Grinder47

still waiting...

I took a quick peek... the past 5 years most teams with a player ranked up there missed the playoffs entirely.

definately working well... pens chemistry has them winning lots o games lately. He doesnt "stand up for his teammates" it was kunitz who got in Ovie's face after that play. punching a random other player doesnt do anything
- ChrisMS

Are you new to hockey? Downie wasn't on the next shift against OV. And after Kuni confronted him it was obvious that OV wasn't going to answer for what he did. And Downie punched a guy that cross checked him in the face

Just saw on Chicago's blog that they may be shopping Shaw, and are looking for defensive help in return. He would be an upgrade at the 3C.
- cap1681

Yeah, but who is Pittsburgh gonna give them for defensive help?

Other trade targets...

Jamie McGinn. 2.9 cap hit. 26, LW. Signed through next year. Avs need D desperately. Perhaps McGinn+ for Despres.

Charlie Coyle. Big body. Young. Cheap. Scores some. Min could use some scoring punch at C. Sutter for Coyle.

Kyle Chipchura for a low pick.
- 87_71_11_29

McGinn is injured

Coyle, I dont think they would ever trade for Sutter. But, in fairness, Sutter's value is a huge mystery.

Yeah, but who is Pittsburgh gonna give them for defensive help?
- jfkst1

Martin

Edit: I would add if necessary. Shaw would be a great add.

Are you new to hockey? Downie wasn't on the next shift against OV. And after Kuni confronted him it was obvious that OV wasn't going to answer for what he did. And Downie punched a guy that cross checked him in the face
- willi

retaliation penalties are definately the way to win hockey games... but maybe my "newness" just doesnt understand how that works.

still waiting...
- ChrisMS

Downie is the best bottom six hockey player on the team. Hes all around good at playing hockey, is willing to fight (not just shove "kunitz"), and if tochett would have been smart and just told him to go break Ovis ankle he would have. Lets trade that away great idea. Maybe we could sign Gibbons back to take his spot, I hear his NHL career is doing awesome.

Martin
- cap1681

A contender isn't trading their #2 dman for a 3rd liner.

Martin

Edit: I would add if necessary. Shaw would be a great add.
- cap1681

You would add to Martin for Andrew Shaw?

Why is everybody talking about 5 years down the road? The goal is to field the best team you can RIGHT now. I understand about not wanting to mortgage your future, but come on. Malkin and Crosby are in their prime.

You shouldn't be saying "well in 5-6 years we should have a contender". This is when your team becomes irrelevant I.E. the Pirates for that 20 year stretch.

If you have a good team but still never win the cup what the hell is the difference in playing it safe with trades and such?

Toews and Kane have disappeared plenty of times in the postseason and haven't been nearly as productive as Crosby or Malkin, but since they've won it twice, they are the golden children and escape criticism. I'd love to see them have a 1st round exit and deal with some media scrutiny.
- jfkst1

EXACTLY

Crosby is still I believe 7th overall in NHL history in point per playoff game even with the bad last three playoff series.

Next year, the Wonder Twins in Chicago will be making a combined 21 million toward their cap which is only only going to go up maybe 3 million to 72. When they have to dump all their depth and these guys have to produce even more but won't because the team won't be as talented, the criticism will start to come.

Mcginn is hurt. Shoulder I believe. Minnesota loves Coyle they resigned him for 5 years so I think he's off the table. Chipchura would be better than nothing...you can throw Mcclement into that list
- willi

McGinn is hurt. Not a fan of trading Despres for a third line guy even if Colorado is adding. We will need Despres more than McGinn. People are overrating Coyle a tab.