I dont think the deterrent works....

That is a reactionary 'after the event' has happened.

The best deterrent is a pp that can actually win games.
- walshy66

Pittsburgh is a skilled team but they tend to get drawn in the after the whistle stuff and it gets them off their game. A serious tough guy or two would make sure that wouldn't happen.

It is a logical opinion. It's something I have professed all along. I don't see one good move with our cap problems and our lack of assets that makes us good enough to compete for a Cup. It's the honest to God truth. This team isn't close. We could very well get bounced in the first round. This is a two-year process.
- Oneonta Penguin

I don't think they can fix it this year. But I disagree about not being close. I think a good off season can really change this team.

Haha I don't care if people dont agree with my ideas or when people throw poop out there that I don't think makes sense. Just hate people who condescend for no reason. Most people here have the same good intentions... to just shoot the poop about the Pens.

I think guys like Sutter, Spaling, Bortuzzo, Harrington, Dumo, etc. are worth something when packaged together. A guy like Sutter will be addition by subtraction, imo, and I think there are GMs that will still overvalue him.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I have this convo with Ryan all the time. If we can sit down and look at the stats how can these multi million dollar orgs not use them and see the issues we see.

He thinks Sutter can be moved, I hope he is right, but I just find it hard to see....

Haha I don't care if people dont agree with my ideas or when people throw poop out there that I don't think makes sense. Just hate people who condescend for no reason. Most people here have the same good intentions... to just shoot the poop about the Pens.

I think guys like Sutter, Spaling, Bortuzzo, Harrington, Dumo, etc. are worth something when packaged together. A guy like Sutter will be addition by subtraction, imo, and I think there are GMs that will still overvalue him.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Do you realize 98% of the people you want to acquire are rentals? I get trading Sutter, Spaling, Borts to get them off the books. Harrington is a keeper. He will be needed next year when Martin and Ehrhoff leave. When you are up close to the cap, we need cheap young options.

Pittsburgh is a skilled team but they tend to get drawn in the after the whistle stuff and it gets them off their game. A serious tough guy or two would make sure that wouldn't happen.
- maxbart5

See I just think a team with cooler heads gets away from that.

Having John Scott on the roster doesn't stop that poop from happening, he isnt on the ice when it occurs.

Plus the player they got to help reduce that, well he ended up in the box.

Its like this team isnt sure what it is meant to be.

Reminds me a little of the Caps the last 2 years...

Pittsburgh is a skilled team but they tend to get drawn in the after the whistle stuff and it gets them off their game. A serious tough guy or two would make sure that wouldn't happen.
- maxbart5

They need to be able to play however. There's no room for goons on NHL rosters anymore.

His ideas don't do much. They don't solve the main problems. His ideas just continue to sink us as far as assets. Again, his random third line pending free agents do what to help us win tonight's game? Nothing. Daniel Winnick, Sean Bergenheim, Antoine Roussel (who I actually like) don't help our power play; they don't help our top six. Third line sucks without question, but that isn't the issue now.

I have thrown in the towel, because I'm not delusional thinking random third line players can fix the problem here. The problems lie elsewhere. We don't have the assets or the cap space to fix the problem now. This is a two-year process at least.
- Oneonta Penguin

Stop lumping Winnik in there like I keep saying I want to give up good assets for him. Never said that. And again, the guys I said score more goals than what we have.

Scoring is an issue, and the third line sucks ...two things you admitted to... so dont be condescending and saying I have ridiculous dumb ideas because your opinion is slightly different. That's all I'm saying.

I don't think they can fix it this year. But I disagree about not being close. I think a good off season can really change this team.
- madmike71

I think a healthy Ehrhoff, a hot Fleury and they can do well this year.

A hot goalie for any team in the east and they make the cup finals.

Get Pitt out of the Metro div and I give them a good chance.

Anyone ever notice how everything that OV does ends up being an "accident" and gets explained away...the knee on knee against Gonchar in 09 and the charge against Michalek leap to mind. He's always been at best reckless and at worst sneaky dirty. I don't disagree that the Pens melted down a bit, but maybe that doesn't happen if the refs do their job and OV gets slapped with a double minor for what was clearly a penalty that caused the Penguins best defenseman to leave the game. I don't give a sh*t about intent. The refs let the game get out of control, and that includes that terrible interference make up call on Laich at the end. Brutal officiating, as usual. It wasn't the reason the Penguins, lost, but it does make one seethe.

Haha I don't care if people dont agree with my ideas or when people throw poop out there that I don't think makes sense. Just hate people who condescend for no reason. Most people here have the same good intentions... to just shoot the poop about the Pens.

I think guys like Sutter, Spaling, Bortuzzo, Harrington, Dumo, etc. are worth something when packaged together. A guy like Sutter will be addition by subtraction, imo, and I think there are GMs that will still overvalue him.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I dont think the deterrent works....

That is a reactionary 'after the event' has happened.

The best deterrent is a pp that can actually win games.
- walshy66

definitely! I sure as hell didn't want to be handing Washington Powerplays in that game.

Stop lumping Winnik in there like I keep saying I want to give up good assets for him. Never said that. And again, the guys I said score more goals than what we have.

Scoring is an issue, and the third line sucks ...two things you admitted to... so dont be condescending and saying I have ridiculous dumb ideas because your opinion is slightly different. That's all I'm saying.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Acquiring those assets to improve the Pens, hell any team is hard now, cap considerations and all.

Its the 3.3 that Sutter is costing that makes his output so egregious. If he was cheaper then the team could use the cap for other parts of the roster.

That is why Sutter, Spaling and Scuderi hurt. Its the cap hit, not just the play on the ice.

It is a logical opinion. It's something I have professed all along. I don't see one good move with our cap problems and our lack of assets that makes us good enough to compete for a Cup. It's the honest to God truth. This team isn't close. We could very well get bounced in the first round. This is a two-year process. Our power play is a joke right now. Third line players like the ones you want, don't help it. They don't help the top six, which isn't doing much.
- Oneonta Penguin

Ofcourse we can get bounced 1st round, any team can. But to say we arent even close? We have 2 of the best players in the world, one of them get hot and can carry a team through a round. Fleury gets hot and can steal us games.

We lose in the long run if we dont go all in now and for the next few years. Because of having Crosby and Malkin means we are never finishing in the bottom 10 in the league and they are signed until what 2020?

Wasting even 1 chance at the cup over the next 5 years is assinine. We are very likely never going to see this level of talent on the Penguins again.

Now we are up against the cap so movement is difficult. But if a piece can be added to help we should be looking at it.

Anyone ever notice how everything that OV does ends up being an "accident" and gets explained away...the knee on knee against Gonchar in 09 and the charge against Michalek leap to mind. He's always been at best reckless and at worst sneaky dirty. I don't disagree that the Pens melted down a bit, but maybe that doesn't happen if the refs do their job and OV gets slapped with a double minor for what was clearly a penalty that caused the Penguins he's defenseman to leave the game. I don't give a sh*t about intent. The refs let the game get out of control, and that includes that terrible interference make up call on Laich at the end. Brutal officiating, as usual. It wasn't the reason the Penguins, lost, but it does make on seethe.
- Emperor Filonius

You wont hear me argue about the sneaky dirty.

But we know there is a double standard in the league for superstars. We get the advantage of it too.

I might be wrong but it doesnt feel like out stars injure people. Orpik on the other hand, he was brutal as a pen.

definitely! I sure as hell didn't want to be handing Washington Powerplays in that game.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

well we had a chance to tie it.

But if you dont shoot you cant win....

Crosby looks a lot like Sutter out there lately which is scary

well we had a chance to tie it.

But if you dont shoot you cant win....
- walshy66

I was at the game and that was hard to watch. Was the call on Laich as weak as it looked?

well we had a chance to tie it.

But if you dont shoot you cant win....
- walshy66

That was amazing at the end......and not in a good way. 6 on 4 and won't shoot. wow. Tochett has his hands full.

They need to be able to play however. There's no room for goons on NHL rosters anymore.
- madmike71

Agreed, be able to play or not be a liablity. Gazdic for example, he doesn't put up much points but he gets involved in the play and has enough hockey sense to not drag down a 4th line.

I was at the game and that was hard to watch. Was the call on Laich as weak as it looked?
- Emperor Filonius

yep, total make up call....

one of the frustrating things about the NHL, the 'game management' nature.

But being given it, the team still didnt score.

That was amazing at the end......and not in a good way. 6 on 4 and won't shoot. wow. Tochett has his hands full.
- madmike71

its a strange change of mindset from the 1st month of the year. All they did was shoot

Crosby looks a lot like Sutter out there lately which is scary
- Deadstar

Deadstar makes an appearance! Concise as always. Accurate too.

I don't think they can fix it this year. But I disagree about not being close. I think a good off season can really change this team.
- madmike71

Who do you consider the core players? Define a good offseason. Does that mean resigning Martin and or Ehrhoff? Does that mean trading Sutter, Spaling, Kunitz for picks and gain more cap room for free agency? I'm looking at the free agent pool and its not great. There are some names that would be good to have, but let's face it ... Pittsburgh hasn't had a great recent history in attracting impact free agents.

Do you realize 98% of the people you want to acquire are rentals? I get trading Sutter, Spaling, Borts to get them off the books. Harrington is a keeper. He will be needed next year when Martin and Ehrhoff leave. When you are up close to the cap, we need cheap young options.
- Oneonta Penguin

Young-ish rentals dont bother me nearly as much because 1.) we have an opportunity to re-sign them if they fit well and 2.) the guys we're giving up aren't guys I want on the team anyway.

I also dont think the cap will be that big of an issue. Martin, Ehrhoff, Dupuis, are really big question marks but thats like $13M potentially freed up. I mean none of us knows how that will pan out but there our options. Maatta will be back. Pouliot will be even better.

Even if trade Harrington, for instance. Letang, Maatta, Pouliot, Despres, Scuderi, Bortuzzo, Dumoulin is a pretty good lineup and pretty cheap.

Ofcourse we can get bounced 1st round, any team can. But to say we arent even close? We have 2 of the best players in the world, one of them get hot and can carry a team through a round. Fleury gets hot and can steal us games.

We lose in the long run if we dont go all in now and for the next few years. Because of having Crosby and Malkin means we are never finishing in the bottom 10 in the league and they are signed until what 2020?

Wasting even 1 chance at the cup over the next 5 years is assinine. We are very likely never going to see this level of talent on the Penguins again.

Now we are up against the cap so movement is difficult. But if a piece can be added to help we should be looking at it.
- stackthepads

third line pieces won't make us a contender in my mind. Our problems are deeper than that. Sometimes you have to admit you aren't in this; move some assets that aren't going to be around next year for picks and prospects and get some cap space. Sorry, up against the cap; we have few assets to trade and our problems are quite obvious. Agree to disagree. This team is no where near a Cup contender. People paying attention know this.