In 2010 we got done by a red hot Halak.

Fleury can get hot like that and cover a lot of holes this team currently has.

Ive not given up, there is a lot to like about this roster, but the holes do kinda stick out like dogs balls at the moment though.
- walshy66

still think that 2010 team was the best theyve had in this era.

if fleury gets that run, then yeah, i think they can sneak a round against anybody.

i wouldnt count on that though. id just be content if he was decent and stable.

wow it got nasty in here quick.

Obviously we are pissed hey?

The dude said we could get a top 6 winger and allow Kuni or Comeau to drop down to the third line. I don't necessarily agree but, as usual, you just cherry pick things you want people to say so you can prove everyone is dumb but you.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

whatever you say champ. You don't agree because you are fixated in trading away good assets for third line non factor rentals.

well, i think it would hurt because winnik would require the second. and im not ready to do that.

but yes, i agree with your general sentiment. like i said, i think franchises should always look to improve the bottom line.
- stayinthefnnet

Oh for sure, I agree. He's not worth that. That's why I was suggesting hockey trades with our most expendable players with prospects added in to acquire better bottom 6 players that still fit under the cap.

wow it got nasty in here quick.

Obviously we are pissed hey?
- walshy66

yeah. i can get being frustrated at the on ice product. i sure am right now. and thats part of being a fan.

but i feel like every time i pop in here people are being nasty and vicious towards each other. granted, im not in here enough anymore to know who individually doesnt get along with who, but i feel like half the conversation always boils down to people just jabbing at each other.

still think that 2010 team was the best theyve had in this era.

if fleury gets that run, then yeah, i think they can sneak a round against anybody.

i wouldnt count on that though. id just be content if he was decent and stable.
- stayinthefnnet

lol Never said I wanted to count on it....

You're right that 2010 was great, so was the Caps, MTL really did wreck a few teams runs that year.

Shame

Will be interesting to see how this team reacts from this game though.

They did actually play well in parts, that ebb and flow of a good game, back and forth. Neither team dominated for long stretches. Both goalies were good, special teams won the day.

We have a pp at the moment that seems to not want to shoot, and a pk that is letting up more shots, and that is with a goalie who is still playing really well on the pk.

Its not all doom and gloom, but there are similar problems this year to last year and the year before and so on....

whatever you say champ. You don't agree because you are fixated in trading away good assets for third line non factor rentals.
- Oneonta Penguin

Because he is trying to win, and you've already thrown in the towel.

Oh for sure, I agree. He's not worth that. That's why I was suggesting hockey trades with our most expendable players with prospects added in to acquire better bottom 6 players that still fit under the cap.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

yeah man i understand.

i just dont think that "our most expendable players" really will bring in anything of value. theres a reason we view them as expendable.

i love trade proposals, and i really dont shoot down anyones unless theyre being a Richard, but i dont think there is anything in our pile of misfit toy parts that will bring in anything that could actually make a difference with this team.

unless we can somehow trade a pile of poop and cash for babcock, this is really going to be it going into the playoffs. theyll either find some sort of inspiration and buckle down, from the stars on down, or theyll get knocked around and dispatched in short order.

yeah. i can get being frustrated at the on ice product. i sure am right now. and thats part of being a fan.

but i feel like every time i pop in here people are being nasty and vicious towards each other. granted, im not in here enough anymore to know who individually doesnt get along with who, but i feel like half the conversation always boils down to people just jabbing at each other.
- stayinthefnnet

Its a little like politics in Australia at the moment, 2 ideologies clashing and neither coming to the middle to find a solution.

Advanced stats and eye test are in that stage at the moment.

Somewhere in the middle is the real answer, but this team right now, is so fun to watch some games, and so baffling others....

As fans though we did ask for a regular season of try and test, not the same old, win at all costs like the last through.

I think we are getting that this season.

lol Never said I wanted to count on it....

You're right that 2010 was great, so was the Caps, MTL really did wreck a few teams runs that year.

Shame

Will be interesting to see how this team reacts from this game though.

They did actually play well in parts, that ebb and flow of a good game, back and forth. Neither team dominated for long stretches. Both goalies were good, special teams won the day.

We have a pp at the moment that seems to not want to shoot, and a pk that is letting up more shots, and that is with a goalie who is still playing really well on the pk.

Its not all doom and gloom, but there are similar problems this year to last year and the year before and so on....
- walshy66

i dont think they were awful. but again, 87 and 71 cant simply be "not awful". they need to be stars. and i dont mean highlight reel plays consistently, but just able to regularly exert their influence on the game. they simply do not do that with enough consistency anymore.

if this team doesnt fix its special teams, nothing else really matters.

Because he is trying to win, and you've already thrown in the towel.
- stackthepads

His ideas don't do much. They don't solve the main problems. His ideas just continue to sink us as far as assets. Again, his random third line pending free agents do what to help us win tonight's game? Nothing. Daniel Winnick, Sean Bergenheim, Antoine Roussel (who I actually like) don't help our power play; they don't help our top six. Third line sucks without question, but that isn't the issue now.

I have thrown in the towel, because I'm not delusional thinking random third line players can fix the problem here. The problems lie elsewhere. We don't have the assets or the cap space to fix the problem now. This is a two-year process at least.

My god does the NHL suck. I don't even care about score hurt him.
-lloyd095

Hope downie jumps him bertuzzi style. Slash to Letang and charges Kunitz
-buckster2342

yeah lets hope players get injured now, stay classy, yeah gets jumped and has his neck broken

hit him hard fine, but to say that you want him intentionally injured is beyond pathetic and you might want to check yourself since it is their livelihood and their health

for a team that has had crosby out for a long time due to health reasons id figure you would be understanding and not wish injury on others, especially after many female doged about crosby getting concussions

its not hard to see why so many other teams fans are frustrated about pens fans when ignorant posts like those above are said
- dmarsden2988

I could tell OV was really concerned over Letangs "livelihood".

Dumb post of the year award. Bravo!

yeah man i understand.

i just dont think that "our most expendable players" really will bring in anything of value. theres a reason we view them as expendable.

i love trade proposals, and i really dont shoot down anyones unless theyre being a Richard, but i dont think there is anything in our pile of misfit toy parts that will bring in anything that could actually make a difference with this team.

unless we can somehow trade a pile of poop and cash for babcock, this is really going to be it going into the playoffs. theyll either find some sort of inspiration and buckle down, from the stars on down, or theyll get knocked around and dispatched in short order.
- stayinthefnnet

I know a lot of people weren't high on Goc but I was really pissed at him being traded and Sutter staying.

Goc was the replacement for Sutter and Spaling leaving.

Goc would at least stop the shots against, something that Sutter struggles to do.

I have decided that the bottom 6 just need to reduce the amount of chances the other team gets against you.

Goc provided that, Sutter does not....

hell Craig Adams shot suppression is at a 1st line level. I'd keep him over Sutter due to his cap hit and the flexibility that would create.

I have said numerous times we don't have the assets to do anything that I would envision being that good. I'm a short-term and long term guy. I don't like trading away good assets for rentals. That is the reason we stand where we are right now. We lack depth at forward because dumb deals were made. We have a second round pick, which is important to keep because we wouldn't have a selection in the top 110 or so of this year's draft. We have to find a way at rebuilding our prospects at forward and not have to rely on Megna or any other non factor player in Scranton. I don't believe in trading Pouliot or Harrington either because its is very possible that both very well could be in our top seven come October. This is what happens when 35% of the cap is invested in three players. You need cheap options. Martin or Ehrhoff is gone ... maybe both.

So, I would stand pat; not make a stupid trade (unloading a good asset or assets for another rental that doesn't solve a problem) and let it ride. If you can't get anything that helps LONGER TERM than two months, then look into trading Martin and whoever you plan on not bringing back - maybe Sutter; maybe Greis. Collect picks. This team isn't close to competing for a Cup.
- Oneonta Penguin

Whoa, a logical opinion. Now if I were you I would just say "LOL you say we aren't close to competing for a cup so your best idea is to do nothing at all? I laugh at people like you for thinking we should just go ahead and throw in the towel this season in hopes of being better next year"

Or we could be rational human beings... I don't agree with you because I think there are good potential hockey trades to be made that can help us this year without sacrificing the long term. But I am anti-Jagr and pro-keep-the-2nd-rounder, so I do agree with you there.

Pens should have picked up McGrattan off waivers when he was avaliable. That's what they need, a heavyweight that'll make other teams poop themselves. Not a couple of mosquitoes in Downie and Lapierre.

i dont think they were awful. but again, 87 and 71 cant simply be "not awful". they need to be stars. and i dont mean highlight reel plays consistently, but just able to regularly exert their influence on the game. they simply do not do that with enough consistency anymore.

if this team doesnt fix its special teams, nothing else really matters.
- stayinthefnnet

Oh I get your point.

Felt Malkin tried too hard early in the game, and when he does, well its hard to skate through a team.

I know we all werent happy about the Letang incident, but this PP unit did get out there on a make up call at the end of the game and didnt shoot the puck to even get a lucky bounce....

i dont think they were awful. but again, 87 and 71 cant simply be "not awful". they need to be stars. and i dont mean highlight reel plays consistently, but just able to regularly exert their influence on the game. they simply do not do that with enough consistency anymore.

if this team doesnt fix its special teams, nothing else really matters.
- stayinthefnnet

But in a few yrs those contracts will be bargains!

Seriously though, I see big changes coming next season. I don't think many will be too thrilled with it. 87 and 71 can't really have off nights. I think 87 is at 24 games this yr with 0 pts. Malkin no ppg since Dec 6? Unacceptable. You can't justify the salary at that pace.

Pens should have picked up McGrattan off waivers when he was avaliable. That's what they need, a heavyweight that'll make other teams poop themselves. Not a couple of mosquitoes in Downie and Lapierre.
- maxbart5

I dont think the deterrent works....

That is a reactionary 'after the event' has happened.

The best deterrent is a pp that can actually win games.

I know a lot of people weren't high on Goc but I was really pissed at him being traded and Sutter staying.

Goc was the replacement for Sutter and Spaling leaving.

Goc would at least stop the shots against, something that Sutter struggles to do.

I have decided that the bottom 6 just need to reduce the amount of chances the other team gets against you.

Goc provided that, Sutter does not....

hell Craig Adams shot suppression is at a 1st line level. I'd keep him over Sutter due to his cap hit and the flexibility that would create.
- walshy66

yeah. that is what made staal so effective in that role. hell, even on the shifts that him, tk, and cooke didnt generate a single scoring chance, they could still hold the puck down low and cycle for 30 or so seconds at a time.

for the money he is making, sutter really does blow this year. i really thought he would have been better. he isnt exactly good in any one area.

I know a lot of people weren't high on Goc but I was really pissed at him being traded and Sutter staying.

Goc was the replacement for Sutter and Spaling leaving.

Goc would at least stop the shots against, something that Sutter struggles to do.

I have decided that the bottom 6 just need to reduce the amount of chances the other team gets against you.

Goc provided that, Sutter does not....

hell Craig Adams shot suppression is at a 1st line level. I'd keep him over Sutter due to his cap hit and the flexibility that would create.
- walshy66

I don't like advanced stats, but if they were correct everything said Goc can do everything Sutter can at 1/3 the price. If that's true, i wish we would have moved Sutter for a bigger fish. I think at the time he could have fetched it. Either way, Sutter, BB, Harrington, Martin, Dumo should all be considered moveable.

But in a few yrs those contracts will be bargains!

Seriously though, I see big changes coming next season. I don't think many will be too thrilled with it. 87 and 71 can't really have off nights. I think 87 is at 24 games this yr with 0 pts. Malkin no ppg since Dec 6? Unacceptable. You can't justify the salary at that pace.
- sammy87

my issue right now is more with their mentality and production than with the overall structure the pens have set up.

im not ready to jump ship on one of them, but really, for people to not acknowledge their culpability in all of this is hard to see.

i dont think they were awful. but again, 87 and 71 cant simply be "not awful". they need to be stars. and i dont mean highlight reel plays consistently, but just able to regularly exert their influence on the game. they simply do not do that with enough consistency anymore.

if this team doesnt fix its special teams, nothing else really matters.
- stayinthefnnet

Special teams are such an eye sore right now. I dont understand how the PP cant score youd think just having Crosby and Malkin would be enough to superstar a couple goals in...but zilch.

Hopefully this is all a ploy to sucker the Metro into thinking they have a bead on us then BAM! new strategies theyve never seen before, and a PP and PK that work.

Whoa, a logical opinion. Now if I were you I would just say "LOL you say we aren't close to competing for a cup so your best idea is to do nothing at all? I laugh at people like you for thinking we should just go ahead and throw in the towel this season in hopes of being better next year"

Or we could be rational human beings... I don't agree with you because I think there are good potential hockey trades to be made that can help us this year without sacrificing the long term. But I am anti-Jagr and pro-keep-the-2nd-rounder, so I do agree with you there.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

It is a logical opinion. It's something I have professed all along. I don't see one good move with our cap problems and our lack of assets that makes us good enough to compete for a Cup. It's the honest to God truth. This team isn't close. We could very well get bounced in the first round. This is a two-year process. Our power play is a joke right now. Third line players like the ones you want, don't help it. They don't help the top six, which isn't doing much.

yeah man i understand.

i just dont think that "our most expendable players" really will bring in anything of value. theres a reason we view them as expendable.

i love trade proposals, and i really dont shoot down anyones unless theyre being a Richard, but i dont think there is anything in our pile of misfit toy parts that will bring in anything that could actually make a difference with this team.

unless we can somehow trade a pile of poop and cash for babcock, this is really going to be it going into the playoffs. theyll either find some sort of inspiration and buckle down, from the stars on down, or theyll get knocked around and dispatched in short order.
- stayinthefnnet

Haha I don't care if people dont agree with my ideas or when people throw poop out there that I don't think makes sense. Just hate people who condescend for no reason. Most people here have the same good intentions... to just shoot the poop about the Pens.

I think guys like Sutter, Spaling, Bortuzzo, Harrington, Dumo, etc. are worth something when packaged together. A guy like Sutter will be addition by subtraction, imo, and I think there are GMs that will still overvalue him.

I don't like advanced stats, but if they were correct everything said Goc can do everything Sutter can at 1/3 the price. If that's true, i wish we would have moved Sutter for a bigger fish. I think at the time he could have fetched it. Either way, Sutter, BB, Harrington, Martin, Dumo should all be considered moveable.
- sammy87

and that is where advanced stats help in the cap world.

People who refuse to look at them at all, are just taking away 50% of their chance to analyse and improve a team or look at other options.

With what Sutter is giving offensively it would be cheaper to have Goc on the roster and give the same output but lower the shots to the net.

Less roles of the dice for the opposition....