I disagree.. you can win in the playoffs without a good PP, as long as you're getting 5on5 production. And your PK is solid. But if you're PK sucks and no one is scoring... you're toast.
- j.boyd919

I learned a lot about power plays in the playoffs when the Penguins had the two run-ins with Detroit. Those two series were about two things: screening and setting picks.

The 08 Penguins couldn't score enough on the PP to punish Detroit for all of that blatant pick setting. The PK Detroit had back then was stellar, but the Penguins didn't screen and they used the wrong guys.

The 09 Penguins didn't use Ryan Whitney on the PP and screened. Detroit still set picks and the like but Pittsburgh punished them when they were caught. Detroit had to shy away from that game plan to a good extent.

The PP has to be lethal. If nothing else, the PP has to be lethal. The opponent will not be as predisposed to stir things up in the playoffs if the Penguins are capable of converting PP chances.

i dont have as big an issue of him as you do, but i do see your points.

mentally, he just isnt there. i really do think pouliot should be groomed for the main PP runner. starting now.

i know he is out of position a ton. and he is going to make mistakes. he manages to cover up some of them, and for some of them, he offsets by good plays the other way. however, there will be times when he burns them. i dont see them trading him, so this is the hand they are dealt right now.

but for (frank)s sake, get him off the powerplay. he makes a living due to sheer physical ability. im willing to take the lumps with that during even strength. but the powerplay is less about pure athleticism as it is consistently making the smart read.

i already have more confidence in pouliot to do that. i also have greater faith in his ability to not only want to shoot, but get the puck through to the net on the odd occasion.
- stayinthefnnet

Not directed at you but a couple weeks ago I suggested to have Pouliot running the top powerplay for a while and people acted like it was the most absurd thing they ever heard. Funny how people's minds change so quickly.

I learned a lot about power plays in the playoffs when the Penguins had the two run-ins with Detroit. Those two series were about two things: screening and setting picks.

The 08 Penguins couldn't score enough on the PP to punish Detroit for all of that blatant pick setting. The PK Detroit had back then was stellar, but the Penguins didn't screen and they used the wrong guys.

The 09 Penguins didn't use Ryan Whitney on the PP and screened. Detroit still set picks and the like but Pittsburgh punished them when they were caught. Detroit had to shy away from that game plan to a good extent.

The PP has to be lethal. If nothing else, the PP has to be lethal. The opponent will not be as predisposed to stir things up in the playoffs if the Penguins are capable of converting PP chances.
- Johnny Wrath

the Pens PP will have to be lethal. there really is no other way. not only for the deterrent factor to potentially cut down on some of the even strength liberties against them, but really, the pens as currently constructed aren't going to be a dominant even strength squad. even when they are on as a team, they simply wont put long enough stretches of dominance together without the odd miscue being put in the back of their own end from time to time.

if they go through an 0 for 19 type drought, that will likely be the series.

Not directed at you but a couple weeks ago I suggested to have Pouliot running the top powerplay for a while and people acted like it was the most absurd thing they ever heard. Funny how people's minds change so quickly.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

well, a few things.

to be fair, pouliot right now and pouliot when he first came up are two pretty different things. he still is a little weak in his own end, but i have seen enough flashes to think hes earned it being funneled through him.

also, i was way off on who i actually wanted to be back there originally. letang has always struggled on the PP.

i really thought ehrhoff could have become the man back there this year. but, they never really used him in that role. and even during even strength, he hasnt shown much of the shot that i know he has in him.

Not directed at you but a couple weeks ago I suggested to have Pouliot running the top powerplay for a while and people acted like it was the most absurd thing they ever heard. Funny how people's minds change so quickly.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Last summer I suggested it. Letang was never the answer; he's had a career to prove that he's adept at running a PP. It's not on. The result was calumny and a bizarre changing of the subject to that of how I must simply hate Kris Letang.

If Pouliot had been played as the 6th D this season and groomed to be a PP specialist while he adapted to regular NHL minutes, the PP would certainly not be any worse than it is right now.

Not directed at you but a couple weeks ago I suggested to have Pouliot running the top powerplay for a while and people acted like it was the most absurd thing they ever heard. Funny how people's minds change so quickly.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I got yelled at for suggesting he was top 4 already and he could replace martin or ehrhoff if they trade one for a winger... well his play while ehrhoff is out shows that... borts is odd man out when ehrhoff returns and next yr maatta is back so either martin or ehrhoff is gone.. might as well get something out of it now while prices are high on D then at draft.

Pens need scoring help and to shoot the puck on net more... stop cutting wide down the wall to go behind the net
. Power move like staal use to do and drive to the net.

I tuned in to MM in time for Dejan. He's saying he wants 71 in the high slot. I'm assuming he wants Sid on the half wall and Hornqvist in front. Where does Perron fit?

Last summer I suggested it. Letang was never the answer; he's had a career to prove that he's adept at running a PP. It's not on. The result was calumny and a bizarre changing of the subject to that of how I must simply hate Kris Letang.

If Pouliot had been played as the 6th D this season and groomed to be a PP specialist while he adapted to regular NHL minutes, the PP would certainly not be any worse than it is right now.
- Johnny Wrath

i didnt mean that you hate him. perhaps i phrased it harshly. i just probably value his contributions at even strength a little more than you do. although i am certainly right there when it comes to the powerplay.

the sample size is far too big to ignore.

Last summer I suggested it. Letang was never the answer; he's had a career to prove that he's adept at running a PP. It's not on. The result was calumny and a bizarre changing of the subject to that of how I must simply hate Kris Letang.

If Pouliot had been played as the 6th D this season and groomed to be a PP specialist while he adapted to regular NHL minutes, the PP would certainly not be any worse than it is right now.
- Johnny Wrath

I mean, you are definitely the most vocal about disliking Letang lol. But I do agree with you he is not a true PP QB. I wish Ehrhoff looked better when he was running the PP....but Pouliot is the guy you can just see oozing instincts and ability. I thought it made sense to give him an extended look at QBing the poweplay at the first sign of PP struggles.

i didnt mean that you hate him. perhaps i phrased it harshly. i just probably value his contributions at even strength a little more than you do. although i am certainly right there when it comes to the powerplay.

the sample size is far too big to ignore.
- stayinthefnnet

Oh, I mean the posters here who point to who is in what Norris race as opposed to what would be better for the team.

I'm very tired of the notion that the Penguins need to be tougher. They don't, and they aren't. They won't be. They'll just take dumb penalties and go down in flames. They need to play a more contained and poised game and focus on fundamental hockey.

You're on the PK. You don't go for the breakaway unless your 100% sure. Dump it and get off....in Bennett's defense he isn't normally out there on the PK but still should have known better
- willi

Wasn't it the tail end of the PP? And if you have a shot at a breakaway, you don't dump the puck in. That would just be stupid.

I tuned in to MM in time for Dejan. He's saying he wants 71 in the high slot. I'm assuming he wants Sid on the half wall and Hornqvist in front. Where does Perron fit?
- Johnny Wrath

His #1 PP unit and solution is Horny downlow, Sid on half-wall, Making in high slot, and Martin and Erhoff on the points.

http://dkonpittsburghspor...r-issue-idiot-run-league/ - see the gif

Also, just watched HCMJ off-day interview. He is just as stubborn (or brainwashed) as Disco Dan was about keeping Kunitz on Sid's line while Kunitz just can't cut the mustard on the top 2 lines any more. He still talks about liking the "chemistry" of Sid, Perron, and Kuni and the "chemistry" of Geno, Horny and Comeau that is getting back to where it should be after the injuries. Geez ... givee me a fraking break. Everyone, from "most prolific PGH" beat writers to the bandwagon fans have suggested playing Hornqvist on top line. Why isn't it happening?

I am just glad I am not the one paying this clown's salary ... also, why does Tocchet still have a job?
- chimpira

Why is everyone saying Kunitz has lost a step? Isnt he on pace for the same point production he has had every single year? I agree that the chemistry would be btter of Kunitz was with Malkin and Hornqvist with Crosby, but the people who want to drop him down to the 3rd line make no sense to me.

I mean, you are definitely the most vocal about disliking Letang lol. But I do agree with you he is not a true PP QB. I wish Ehrhoff looked better when he was running the PP....but Pouliot is the guy you can just see oozing instincts and ability. I thought it made sense to give him an extended look at QBing the poweplay at the first sign of PP struggles.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I don't dislike Letang. He's fine. Great hair. I understand he's well thought of in the room. I just wish Letang had been converted into assets at a higher point in his value arc. I think he's miscast as a #1D, a PP QB, and frankly I don't think it's a coincidence that the Penguins' dismal playoff record in this decade lines up with Letang's tenure as the main guy in Pittsburgh.

Why is everyone saying Kunitz has lost a step? Isnt he on pace for the same point production he has had every single year? I agree that the chemistry would be btter of Kunitz was with Malkin and Hornqvist with Crosby, but the people who want to drop him down to the 3rd line make no sense to me.
- thickman1178

I didn't say I wanted him dropped to the 3rd/4th lines. I just said that he doesn't belong on the top 2.

I learned a lot about power plays in the playoffs when the Penguins had the two run-ins with Detroit. Those two series were about two things: screening and setting picks.

The 08 Penguins couldn't score enough on the PP to punish Detroit for all of that blatant pick setting. The PK Detroit had back then was stellar, but the Penguins didn't screen and they used the wrong guys.

The 09 Penguins didn't use Ryan Whitney on the PP and screened. Detroit still set picks and the like but Pittsburgh punished them when they were caught. Detroit had to shy away from that game plan to a good extent.

The PP has to be lethal. If nothing else, the PP has to be lethal. The opponent will not be as predisposed to stir things up in the playoffs if the Penguins are capable of converting PP chances.
- Johnny Wrath

Not true.. even in 09 the Pens PP was only clicking at 20 percent... yes that's solid, but hardly lethal. Looking back at recent cup finalists.. their PPs rarely convert over 20%... I think that's comes out to 1 goal for every 5 PP attempts? I would say that is hardly lethal at all... what I learned in those series is how valuable the last change is and line matching... things that have been lacking from the Pens lately under Disco. I see those things way more valuable than getting the PP clicking for the playoffs. Playoff games are normally won with solid 5v5 play.

His #1 PP unit and solution is Horny downlow, Sid on half-wall, Making in high slot, and Martin and Erhoff on the points.

http://dkonpittsburghspor...r-issue-idiot-run-league/ - see the gif
- chimpira

Oh, okay. Guess I had better start doing special teams gifs if I want to make my points clear.

I don't think the Pens need 2 D out there. I think they need two bodies in front and a triangle of 87, 51, 71 to get the puck to the net for Perron and Hornqvist. Kind of a top-heavy umbrella.

My point is that Campbell was a very good offensive D and had the lone assist on Patrick Kane's OT Cup winner, then they traded him to Florida to address other needs on the team. I think they were better off for it. The trade was heavily criticized at the time.

Same story with Jack. He was traded to address team needs and they were just fine, as the Kings had more capable PP players and defenders who could accommodate the missing minutes.
- Johnny Wrath

They had Duncan Keith and Seabrook still though didn't they?

The PP looks like the players coaching the PP. That's a different yet entirely logical reason to fire a coach. I don't think Tocchet was counting on it going like this after the success rate at the beginning of the season. He's played his hand in separating the centers and demoting 71 to some small extent. He's not going to bench 87. Maybe he is counting on some internal competition between 87 and 71 to see whose PP is better but so far they both look pointless.
- Johnny Wrath

I said this last night. It doesn't look like they have any method to their powerplay anymore. It certainly isn't to shoot. And if I see Sid on the left side one more time....

Oh, okay. Guess I had better start doing special teams gifs if I want to make my points clear.

I don't think the Pens need 2 D out there. I think they need two bodies in front and a triangle of 87, 51, 71 to get the puck to the net for Perron and Hornqvist. Kind of a top-heavy umbrella.
- Johnny Wrath

Yes, please. With really REALLY tiny goal (heck, those pucks can't even fit!), at most 2 arrows ... and make sure to use the Pens logo as the background, please.

Not true.. even in 09 the Pens PP was only clicking at 20 percent... yes that's solid, but hardly lethal. Looking back at recent cup finalists.. their PPs rarely convert over 20%... I think that's comes out to 1 goal for every 5 PP attempts? I would say that is hardly lethal at all... what I learned in those series is how valuable the last change is and line matching... things that have been lacking from the Pens lately under Disco. I see those things way more valuable than getting the PP clicking for the playoffs. Playoff games are normally won with solid 5v5 play.
- j.boyd919

I was assuming that the Penguins are already doing fundamental things at least passably. Getting the match up they want, not getting scored on, rolling lines nicely, and managing the puck well. That's probably too much to ask for since shortcuts are taken all over the place.

Wasn't it the tail end of the PP? And if you have a shot at a breakaway, you don't dump the puck in. That would just be stupid.
- thickman1178

Not when the rest of your team needs to change after they spent the last 45 seconds killing a penalty. It's not stupid to dump the puck in and take the safe play while you have tired penalty killers out there and one of the most lethal PPs in the league as well. BB is young and made a mistake, a veteran knowing of the situation, and who was on the ice would have cleared it to kill the penalty.

But the penguins do not have capable ddefenders to take over for Letang. If you think Maatta, Pouliot, Depres, and company can take over for Letang, you are sadly mistaken. There are people, even outside of Pitts that see Letang is one of the top dmen in the league right now.
- j.boyd919

Agreed. As an Islanders fan, I'd love to have letang on the isles. He's a great offensive weapon.

I and everyone of you

They had Duncan Keith and Seabrook still though didn't they?
- Isles_since_6

Yeah. Keith was a Norris finalist in 2010 after destroying the Central Division with Campbell on the PP. Seabrook wasn't Seabrook yet. He was there but he hadn't quite taken off and didn't occupy the same breadth of stature that he does two Cups later. It was fresh off of their first Cup victory.