Wow.

Like I said....

I forget that You are such an idiot Guru.

Thanks for the reminder.
- Trust In Jarmo

I try.

Good points. But like you said Dean can make a move to help the team before the deadline, OR Richards could also be called up and possibly play better OR they could just roll with what they have...since 85% of this team won the Cup last year. My guess is they make a move.

As for the Blues, I did NOT said they have already been "ran into the ground".

They are slowly being ran into the ground. Of course they look great now. They are at the top of the conference (like they were most of the past 3 or 4 years). Most of that is due to what's left of Jarmos draft picks though.

But what happened in the playoffs the past few years with this great team?

What happened to the great trades that was ALL that was needed to put the Blues over the hump with Jarmos great draft picks?

Armstrong traded Erik Johnson (who had been amazing the past couple years) AND the Blues traded a 1stround pick for Chris Stewart an Shattenkirk.

Stewart was a bust after a year or two. So you basically swapped even defensemen AND Armstrong lost you a 1st round pick to Colorado. Team doesn't get better either. Trade FAILED.

Armstrong trades Lars Eller for the goalie that would win the Cup (accoriding to many on here) for Halak. Trade FAILED. And it is why Ben bishop was traded by Armstrong for garbage in return. Because Armstrong incorrectly thought Halak was the man that would win the cup and there was not a need to develop Ben Bishop.

Armstrong trades a 1st round pick for a player that has been known around the league as an enigma. And not only does Armstrojg trade ANOTHER 1st round pick...he gives Bowmesiter crazy amount of money when he proved basically nothing in the NHL. A good prospect that continues to go backwards. Trade FAILED.

Ryan Miller is suppose to win a Cup. Even though Miller was a playoff choke artist and only sniffed past the 2nd round ONLY ONE time in his entire career in buffalo. Armstrong gives up another 1st round pick for Miller. And we know what happens last year. Trade FAILED.

So the 3 big trades Armstrong made since 2011 to help put the Blues over the hump had failed. Dean Lombardis trades did the exact opposite. And won 2 Dtanley Cups in the past 3 years.

Also, Armstrong loses 3 of your last 5 1st round picks for garbage in return. And lost a franchise goalie in Ben Bishop. Not to mention great role players to help make up all 4 lines (which is what you need to win a Cup) in trading Eller, Perron, McClement and others.

Let me know how this is progress?.
- Trust In Jarmo

You are delusional. You are right thanks to Jarmo's draft picks lol. Like trading Runblad and getting Tarasenko. Or trading Johnson and McClement and getting Shattenkirk, Stewart and Rattie? It really is nt one guy doing the picking. Only the GM truly has that kind of power to take the blame based on who he hries and the decisions he makes based upon their input.

Jarmo was sold to us, marketed to us so that we had a story to hold onto like Sabres fans holdiing onto the thought of a generational player and makng a big trade that they probably will lose.

That is the thing Trust. I evolved during that time and my understanding of the game and you are stuck in the realm of understanding very little.

Perron has very good skill, I liked him but he did not fit on this offensive juggernaut. But he did what anyone with a modicum of skill can do and that is score while olaying on Crosby's line. Ohhh the toughness of doing that. So difficult that for years marginal players have inflated their stats and got contracts playing on his line.

How about we take a look at Jarmo's prowess in the second round if he is so great at the draft. Or could we say that after the first round he sucked while Bostonvirtually drafted their Cup team that year? And while Jarmo was being so ultra smart in drafting Cole a projected third rounder in the first round that he just let PK Subban slide on right by.

Good points. Agree to disagree.

A couple things, I dont think you have won the Johnson trade. I still think it's too early to deem who "won" the trade. Defensemen take longer to develop in the NHL. Just look at the Phil housley. Al MacInnis trade late in the middle of their careers. Most Thought it was a fair trade....but it turned out to be quite the opposite. But you still gve up a 1st round pick...which right now to me shows you lost the trade at this point. Still not official yet though.

I think you also are underestimating a guy like McClement. I'm not sure the kings would have won those 2 Cups without Jarret Stolls clutch faceoff wins and defensive play on key penalty kills...period to period game to game for 4 rounds in the playoffs.

I don't think your 4th line compares to Kings an Hawks. The production in te playoffs from the 3rd and 4th lines of the Kings/Blackhawks vs Blues in the playoffs state otherwise.

Oh, and I thought it was fitting that Armstrong picked up the ONE King that brought almost nothing to the Kings 2 Stanley Cup runs.
- Trust In Jarmo

Picked up the 1 king to play in chicago all year, yeah why not.

Only time will tell who won the shatty/johnson trade. it will take a decade to really determine that, but i am more than happy having Shatty here in Blue.

Petro's improvement made that trade possible.

Yeah production in the playoffs do matter when it comes to the 3rd and 4th line. our 3rd line has been producing a lot lately(Jaskin) and our 3rd line is centered by Stastny. I will take that over damn near every 3rd line in the league.

4th line is a checking line to hem in the opponent. they have played well since the lappy/goc trade. really want to see Porter instead of ott though.

So the Blues 3rd and 4th lines this year are a great improvement over last years and they can be the difference in the playoffs.

Good points. Agree to disagree.

A couple things, I dont think you have won the Johnson trade. I still think it's too early to deem who "won" the trade. Defensemen take longer to develop in the NHL. Just look at the Phil housley. Al MacInnis trade late in the middle of their careers. Most Thought it was a fair trade....but it turned out to be quite the opposite. But you still gve up a 1st round pick...which right now to me shows you lost the trade at this point. Still not official yet though.

I think you also are underestimating a guy like McClement. I'm not sure the kings would have won those 2 Cups without Jarret Stolls clutch faceoff wins and defensive play on key penalty kills...period to period game to game for 4 rounds in the playoffs.

I don't think your 4th line compares to Kings an Hawks. The production in te playoffs from the 3rd and 4th lines of the Kings/Blackhawks vs Blues in the playoffs state otherwise.

Oh, and I thought it was fitting that Armstrong picked up the ONE King that brought almost nothing to the Kings 2 Stanley Cup runs.
- Trust In Jarmo

So how much more developed will Shattenkirk get? Last I checked he has never scored less than forty points in a full season and Johnson has a stat line similar to Brewer's.

A player like Rattie is hard to project. The reason is he has tremendous hockey iq. He has a nose for the net. He is highly creative and that plus his shot is what makes him special.

The same way that before this season Jaskin was a step too slow and he improved his skating and as he gets confident you are starting to see him make the plays he did in junior. Rattie showed in his last two games when he had better line mates some of his talent. Rattie was never as slow as Jaskin was and his size is not bothersome. Size matters to a degree but it has more to do with his ability to be strong on his skates plus his escapability. You do not need speed to be slippery.

I think Rattie will be a solid player who can score thirty. It will be difficult for him on the Blues. But when you mention Fabbri I think it is premature. The kid has the skills to play but even at his level he leaves himself too vulnerable. That is disconcerting. He reminds me of Schwartz but Schwartz learned to step away from the scrums a bit and watch himself. Schwartz will go to dirty areas but he is smart about it. Fabbri is not wise yet. I think it will be a good thing for those players to develop more. No need to rush anyone up to the Blues. Better to be like Detroit.
- BluemanGuruu

good points with Rattie and Fabri. I think of Schwartz when i see both of those players. With Jaskin, man has he improved. He now belongs here and will only get better. Rattie could be the same way. Little tastes of the NHL so he can go back and improve his game. If there was a trade to be made though to make the team better for the playoffs i think i would use Rattie.

Thats also why i am not a gm

You are delusional. You are right thanks to Jarmo's draft picks lol. Like trading Runblad and getting Tarasenko. Or trading Johnson and McClement and getting Shattenkirk, Stewart and Rattie? It really is nt one guy doing the picking. Only the GM truly has that kind of power to take the blame based on who he hries and the decisions he makes based upon their input.

Jarmo was sold to us, marketed to us so that we had a story to hold onto like Sabres fans holdiing onto the thought of a generational player and makng a big trade that they probably will lose.

That is the thing Trust. I evolved during that time and my understanding of the game and you are stuck in the realm of understanding very little.

Perron has very good skill, I liked him but he did not fit on this offensive juggernaut. But he did what anyone with a modicum of skill can do and that is score while olaying on Crosby's line. Ohhh the toughness of doing that. So difficult that for years marginal players have inflated their stats and got contracts playing on his line.

How about we take a look at Jarmo's prowess in the second round if he is so great at the draft. Or could we say that after the first round he sucked while Bostonvirtually drafted their Cup team that year? And while Jarmo was being so ultra smart in drafting Cole a projected third rounder in the first round that he just let PK Subban slide on right by.
- BluemanGuruu

2nd round picks only?? HAHAHA! Way to pick around your facts. Why not compare his whole draft? Belichick is horrible in the 2nd round too....I guess he shouldn't run the Patriots drafts. HAHAHA. You are too funny.

You do realize that jarmo said when he made the pick on rundblad in 2009...that the depth was horrible in the 1st round. It is why's jarmo said trade Rundblad for a 1st round. Because Jarmos going away gift to the blues was drafting Schwartz and Taresenko.

Trivia time. Who is the only General manager to win a championship as a General manager in professional hockey? Armstrong or Jarmo?

Answer: Jarmo


Carry on crazy Guru.

By all means YES, i would love that.

Do we resign Jackman? He will probably take a discount like he did last contract. Cole has played better with actual consistent playing time but we could use him in a trade to get a better return. I like the top 4 we have but we also need more grit on defense. Someone who can still skate and make strong plays but plays with more of an edge than our top 4. Shatty is almost like that but a little on the smaller side.

I get trading Polak cause Gunnar is a much better pck mover but we lost a lot of physical play with that deal.

Butler, eh. Don't care much at all for him. Does not stand out either way
- BluesDroogie

I think you make any evaluations after the play offs and you get a solid knowledge of the cap for next season before you move any player. Berglund is signed at a friendly level and is entering his prime. You migt be able to steal another, even better season him next year and give your younger players more time to develop and grow stronger. Then you take a look at the ages and what the players mean to your team. You look at the best possible returns.

This is when it will be difficult. I talked about it about three or four years ago. At some point you have to remove the love you mig have for some players and being loyal in order to operate a good team and manage assets effectively in the cap era. That means you consider the cost of players and weigh the likelihood of them to continue their level of play versus cost and possible asset rturn, which a gm will have a better idea of if other gms have made any offers.

This could mean trading an Oshie before trading a Berglund. If you are going to slot in a smaller player do you really want a smaller player slotting in for a big player when you could move a different smaller player?

In the past the Blues had to bring in young players perhaps before their time. Now they can let them grow more and be closer to their prime years when a player is most effective and this will also help rein in their cap hits.

There area couple dimensions to consider about aberglund, he is big, consistently has tilted the ice in the right direction, his cap hit is small, he can play center and is entering his prime years. The question that is pretty much impossible to answer but a GM has to make an informed decision on is this the highest value of the player at this time and will my team gain by moving him or will the cost be greater to the team in the time before another player is ready to be at Berglund's level. In this case you identified Fabbri as being good enought o fill in for Berglund. But he is young and inexoerienced. He will be prone to mistakes, a leanring curve and inconsistent play at the highest level. Those will impact the team's ability to win and will Fabbri's playing at the NHL level and burning time on his entry contract be cost negligible compared to his growth in his development as a player? Those are a lot of factors.

The same could be said for a player like Tarasenko. He is up for a new contract. Is he worth the value to the cap and as a player on the team? It seems like an easy yes but it might not be so.

You do realize that jarmo said when he made the pick on rundblad in 2009...that the depth was horrible in the 1st round. It is why's jarmo said trade Rundblad for a 1st round. Because Jarmos going away gift to the blues was drafting Schwartz and Taresenko.

Trivia time. Who is the only General manager to win a championship as a General manager in professional hockey? Armstrong or Jarmo?

Answer: Jarmo


Carry on crazy Guru.
- Trust In Jarmo

In a european league I wonder how many gold medals Armstrong has?

You do realize that jarmo said when he made the pick on rundblad in 2009...that the depth was horrible in the 1st round. It is why's jarmo said trade Rundblad for a 1st round. Because Jarmos going away gift to the blues was drafting Schwartz and Taresenko.

Trivia time. Who is the only General manager to win a championship as a General manager in professional hockey? Armstrong or Jarmo?

Answer: Jarmo


Carry on crazy Guru.
- Trust In Jarmo

The same guy who traded down from Couture to take Eller and the guy no one remebers?

In a european league I wonder how many gold medals Armstrong has?
- BluemanGuruu

At the Elite level! He put together one of the greatest teams ever In that league

So because it's not in "MERICA"! It sucks?

Russian leagues suck too!??! Haha!

And just because it wasn't in the NhL. That means Jarmo doesn't know how to put together the correct team to win a championship?


You really do sound like an idiot Guru.

Why do I respond to this joker?

I think you make any evaluations after the play offs and you get a solid knowledge of the cap for next season before you move any player. Berglund is signed at a friendly level and is entering his prime. You migt be able to steal another, even better season him next year and give your younger players more time to develop and grow stronger. Then you take a look at the ages and what the players mean to your team. You look at the best possible returns.

This is when it will be difficult. I talked about it about three or four years ago. At some point you have to remove the love you mig have for some players and being loyal in order to operate a good team and manage assets effectively in the cap era. That means you consider the cost of players and weigh the likelihood of them to continue their level of play versus cost and possible asset rturn, which a gm will have a better idea of if other gms have made any offers.

This could mean trading an Oshie before trading a Berglund. If you are going to slot in a smaller player do you really want a smaller player slotting in for a big player when you could move a different smaller player?

In the past the Blues had to bring in young players perhaps before their time. Now they can let them grow more and be closer to their prime years when a player is most effective and this will also help rein in their cap hits.

There area couple dimensions to consider about aberglund, he is big, consistently has tilted the ice in the right direction, his cap hit is small, he can play center and is entering his prime years. The question that is pretty much impossible to answer but a GM has to make an informed decision on is this the highest value of the player at this time and will my team gain by moving him or will the cost be greater to the team in the time before another player is ready to be at Berglund's level. In this case you identified Fabbri as being good enought o fill in for Berglund. But he is young and inexoerienced. He will be prone to mistakes, a leanring curve and inconsistent play at the highest level. Those will impact the team's ability to win and will Fabbri's playing at the NHL level and burning time on his entry contract be cost negligible compared to his growth in his development as a player? Those are a lot of factors.

The same could be said for a player like Tarasenko. He is up for a new contract. Is he worth the value to the cap and as a player on the team? It seems like an easy yes but it might not be so.
- BluemanGuruu

Not sure if i said Fabri could fill in for Bergy. I think he needs time to develop at the AHL level before. Maybe he could make the roster next year but the Blues do have depth.

Tarasenko is learning that players are getting his moves and he has to find another way of getting around them. Still he is putting up numbers. Tarasenko you sign to a long term deal i say. His best is yet to come. Lehtera also. He has vision and ability to play at this level and is only in his first year in the NHL. He has some learning curves also.

Schwartz is probably our best all around player and i say resign him to a longer deal while it might still be cheaper.
Trading away an Oshie, Steen, or Backes, while being hard might be the best deal we could make to allow cap room and get great return.

I get your points which are all valid, it would be hard to see a great Bluenote go, but if the return will be greater than do it.

The Blues have a lot to work out in the offseason as we're against the cap and unless we make a deep playoff run than the revenue is not coming in. Cannot keep spending without some return.

Berglund……… we have waited for years for his offensive side to show, i think the best he gets is a 40-50 pt guy. he could continue that for maybe 3-5 years before he starts to decline. He is an all around good player. defensively and offensively. Great to see that line gaining some momentum/chemistry. all 3 are feeding well off of each other.

At the Elite level! He put together one of the greatest teams ever In that league

So because it's not in "MERICA"! It sucks?

Russian leagues suck too!??! Haha!

And just because it wasn't in the NhL. That means Jarmo doesn't know how to put together the correct team to win a championship?


You really do sound like an idiot Guru.

Why do I respond to this joker?
- Trust In Jarmo

The other leagues are not as good as the NHL. That is why the best players come here. "MERICA" Really?? look at the league. lots of russians swedes finns and others.

Jarmo, while still being young to the NHL has not produced at this HIGHER level.

Maybe he will, but not yet

The same guy who traded down from Couture to take Eller and the guy no one remebers?
- BluemanGuruu

So championship teams get EVERY single round of EVERY single draft correct?

Got it. Thanks moron.

The other leagues are not as good as the NHL. That is why the best players come here. "MERICA" Really?? look at the league. lots of russians swedes finns and others.

Jarmo, while still being young to the NHL has not produced at this HIGHER level.

Maybe he will, but not yet
- BluesDroogie

I concur.

At the Elite level! He put together one of the greatest teams ever In that league

So because it's not in "MERICA"! It sucks?

Russian leagues suck too!??! Haha!

And just because it wasn't in the NhL. That means Jarmo doesn't know how to put together the correct team to win a championship?


You really do sound like an idiot Guru.

Why do I respond to this joker?
- Trust In Jarmo

Well because you are comparing apples to oranges. The NHL is by far superior to any other league out there period. But in order to try to argue that fact you insinuate I am ethnocentric, which is not entirely true.

I am not sure what languages you are able to speak but I also speak German and my woman is from Germany. So if what you are attempting to say is true I should only have an American life and not wish to speak another language and not love to read Russian novels.

It is a nice distraction from the actual argument we are having. Takes away from the facts of the topic.

I will say that since Jarmo is so adept at recognizing talent and taking off the board picks let us look at 2009 and all of his misses then.

players taken after Rundblad: Palmieri, Despres, O'Reilley, Silfvervberg and Lenhner.

Oh wait there is the Blues second rounder an off the bord pick projected to the fifth round taken in the second Brett Ponich.

What did that cost the Blues? Orlov, Pirri, Tartar, Nielsson, Barrie, McNabb, Reilley Smith, Vantenen.

I am not saying drafting players is easy but he goes off the board and misses more times than he hits but everyone praises for the hits, but forgets how many swings he takes.

So again, sticking to the facts and considering so many of these players the Blues could have picked were Europeans taken in later rounds and he takes a guy who barely played in the AHL is Jarmo such a draft genius? I mean the amount of impact players he misses later in drafts is astounding. These are big players for other teams and almost none of the Blues later round picks under him amounted to anything.

But Merica. Because I am some ignorant American who must but xenophobic, damn these big words and using them properly. If I keep showing off mu vocabulary then I might not be the idiot you paint me to be.

You blind love affair for a man is disheartening. That you run from a team because we questioned decisions made that we have zero control of and then come back to that team's blog in order to have some schadenfruede and instead find your teams sucking and unlikely to make the play offs disappoints your joy at our anguish and instead we can kick you when you are down. That makes me an idiot than I guess I am an idiot.

So championship teams get EVERY single round of EVERY draft correct?

Got it. Thanks moron.
- Trust In Jarmo

lol. Not even close. Nice deflection. You seem to think the man walks on water but when confronted with his fallibility you start calling people names and making obvious staements that while oraising the man you ignore. You want it both ways and I am denying your ability to live in your delision and that makes you hostile.

The inference that all teams make all perfect picks is not what I said, nor what I suggested. I just am pointing out his mistakes.

lol. Not even close. Nice deflection. You seem to think the man walks on water but when confronted with his fallibility you start calling people names and making obvious staements that while oraising the man you ignore. You want it both ways and I am denying your ability to live in your delision and that makes you hostile.

The inference that all teams make all perfect picks is not what I said, nor what I suggested. I just am pointing out his mistakes.
- BluemanGuruu

Actually you are the one that starts throwing names around as soon as I post in here. Might want to check past posts and get your head examined. I just throw them back at the ones that call me those same names.

You aren't just pointing out the mistakes of jarmo. You say, let's compare his 2nd rounds picks. Jnstead of comparing his entire drafts. It's nonsense.

First of all, Shattenkirk is much better than EJ. Let me know when EJ's name gets mentioned in the same sentence as Norris. The Bouwmeester trade was a huge win also. Not to mention Gunnarson plus a pick for Polak. That's three major pieces of one of the top D's in the league that will still be in their prime for several more years, or according to you, run into the ground.

But I guess you'd rather have Jarmo building his D around Jack Johnson and James Wisniewski and overpaying pretty much every one of the contracts he's handed out. How's that working out?

You want to attribute all the Blues success to Jarmo, and sure he deserves some credit with his input at the drafts, but really you are comparing two different stages in a teams development as if they are one and the same. What really brought in the top end young players was the rebuild that started a decade ago. Does Jarmo also get the credit for moving guys like Doug weight for high picks? The team moved beyond the rebuilding phase long ago. Now they can afford to move first round picks, one because they are now low round picks and two, they no longer need such a large influx of young talent. And still they have top young prospects in the pool in Fabbri and Lindbohm, no thanks to Jarmo.

First of all, Shattenkirk is much better than EJ. Let me know when EJ's name gets mentioned in the same sentence as Norris. The Bouwmeester trade was a huge win also. Not to mention Gunnarson plus a pick for Polak. That's three major pieces of one of the top D's in the league that will still be in their prime for several more years, or according to you, run into the ground.

But I guess you'd rather have Jarmo building his D around Jack Johnson and James Wisniewski and overpaying pretty much every one of the contracts he's handed out. How's that working out?

You want to attribute all the Blues success to Jarmo, and sure he deserves some credit with his input at the drafts, but really you are comparing two different stages in a teams development as if they are one and the same. What really brought in the top end young players was the rebuild that started a decade ago. Does Jarmo also get the credit for moving guys like Doug weight for high picks? The team moved beyond the rebuilding phase long ago. Now they can afford to move first round picks, one because they are now low round picks and two, they no longer need such a large influx of young talent. And still they have top young prospects in the pool in Fabbri and Lindbohm, no thanks to Jarmo.
- fattyboubatty

Bouwmeester trade was a steal. Berra is okay but we have goalies. the other guys???

Weight, Tkachuk, Stempniak, all got the Blues good return. Heck STEEN!!!!!

Bouwmeester trade was a steal. Berra is okay but we have goalies. the other guys???

Weight, Tkachuk, Stempniak, all got the Blues good return. Heck STEEN!!!!!
- BluesDroogie

But hey, Jarmo won a championship in... what league was that again?

i am wondering if the Blues make a move before the deadline to get a dman. wonder what army has up his sleeve. Hopefully an ace.

But hey, Jarmo won a championship in... what league was that again?
- fattyboubatty

that about sums it up.

that about sums it up.
- BluesDroogie

Actually come to think of it, I believe it was the same league that Joakim Lindstrom tore up last year.

Hey look at that, columbus is down 1-0 5 minutes in and being outshot 5-1

Good job Jarmo

Actually come to think of it, I believe it was the same league that Joakim Lindstrom tore up last year.
- fattyboubatty