If you move out sutter then you can resign Vermette as 3c, Vermette is a gigantic upgrade, he currently leads the Coyotes in TOI, he plays in all situations and he plays hard, never takes a shift off. Reider and Bennet are a wash as of right now, Reider is actually contributing even though his team is not winning and Reider can play in the bottom and top 6 with little difficulty.
- Dcoms

Sutter/ Bennert 28 points, Vermette/ Reider 48 points

This will likely give Johnny Wrath an aneurysm but here's a nice write up on Kris Letang, his contract and his level of play:

http://www.cbssports.com/...st-defenseman-this-season

Sutter/ Bennert 28 points, Vermette/ Reider 48 points
- Dcoms

So why would the Coyotes do that trade? Wouldn't they prefer picks/prospects as opposed to underperforming players?

Thought 1: Our players are all the best players in the NHL.
Thought 2: All of our players suck and can be traded.
Thought 3: Our players are severely undervalued in all fair trade proposals
- jmatchett383

or in this case of many on this board

BB and BS suck, but put them together and we should be able to get a good package back in return.

So why would the Coyotes do that trade? Wouldn't they prefer picks/prospects as opposed to underperforming players?
- jmatchett383

I rest my case.

I rest my case.
- Oneonta Penguin

See: Thought 1.

Plastic Wawa bag.
- j.boyd919

How does someone in Tampa know what WaWa is? I thought they just built the first one in Orlando like 2 years ago.

Oh no, I've been here the whole time, and I don't ask why our farm system sucks, I'm well aware of it, but I also don't think our farm system sucks. We had a GM who had an infatuation with puck moving defensemen... and they are all playing decent hockey with the big club right now. I would say that our farm system sucks because our scouts are terrible and have made some really bad choices finding talent in the middle rounds of the draft, 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds.
- j.boyd919

UMMM ... we had a former GM that gave away two second round picks for a slow Doug Murray; gave away two other picks for a fourth line center that didn't do much; gave away two suspect prospect plus a first for a player that wasn't ever a need in Iginla (we acquired him to keep him away from Boston instead of using him in the manner he should have been used ... he wasn't a need). It's not just the infatuation with PMDs. Its terrible asset management all around.

Our farm system sucks because we have few options that serve as potential long term solutions. We are devoid of true talent.

See: Thought 1.
- jmatchett383

It doesn't fall under thought 1 if you have been paying attention to the discussion on Sutter and Bennett. This is a combo ... players suck but we want a hefty return.

UMMM ... we had a former GM that gave away two second round picks for a slow Doug Murray; gave away two other picks for a fourth line center that didn't do much; gave away two suspect prospect plus a first for a player that wasn't ever a need in Iginla (we acquired him to keep him away from Boston instead of using him in the manner he should have been used ... he wasn't a need). It's not just the infatuation with PMDs. Its terrible asset management all around.

Our farm system sucks because we have few options that serve as potential long term solutions. We are devoid of true talent.
- Oneonta Penguin

The farm has an enviable amount of top-end defensive talent (read: potential) but is fairly shallow in top-end forwards talent.

It doesn't fall under thought 1 if you have been paying attention to the discussion on Sutter and Bennett. This is a combo ... players suck but we want a hefty return.
- Oneonta Penguin

That's because all of the Penguins (in this case, works for other teams as well) are all the best players. Even though they suck, they're better than other teams players because our players are all the best because they play for us.

That's because all of the Penguins (in this case, works for other teams as well) are all the best players. Even though they suck, they're better than other teams players because our players are all the best because they play for us.
- jmatchett383

We only know they suck because we see them every game... the rest of the league still thinks they are great because they are Penguins... and one is named Sutter

The farm has an enviable amount of top-end defensive talent (read: potential) but is fairly shallow in top-end forwards talent.
- jmatchett383

and next year when Pouliot and Harrington are up for good, we have what exactly on the farm. We have a goalie prospect and maybe two forward prospects. Then again Kapanen probably makes the roster, so ...

Who cares about the farm system, the time to win is very rapidly passing. Win now, needs to be the mindset of this organization. I would sell the WBS franchise to the Flyers if we could win 2 more Cups with Sid and Geno. After they are gone, rebuild then.


F The Farm system


F Sutter


WWJJD

and next year when Pouliot and Harrington are up for good, we have what exactly on the farm. We have a goalie prospect and maybe two forward prospects. Then again Kapanen probably makes the roster, so ...
- Oneonta Penguin

At that point, all of your young talent is on the NHL roster, which is exactly what you want. There's no point in having young talent if you don't utilize it.

Then you start restocking the farm system while the young players are on cheap contracts.

It's a cycle that all teams go through, save Detroit.

Just what we need a 42year old rental that doesn't serve much of a purpose. The infatuation with Jagr is utterly ridiculous.
- Oneonta Penguin

WTF...why am I agreeing with you. Did hell freeze over?

F JagrWatch

UMMM ... we had a former GM that gave away two second round picks for a slow Doug Murray; gave away two other picks for a fourth line center that didn't do much; gave away two suspect prospect plus a first for a player that wasn't ever a need in Iginla (we acquired him to keep him away from Boston instead of using him in the manner he should have been used ... he wasn't a need). It's not just the infatuation with PMDs. Its terrible asset management all around.

Our farm system sucks because we have few options that serve as potential long term solutions. We are devoid of true talent.
- Oneonta Penguin

Is it though? Because I feel like many of the prospects that he traded away haven't amounted to anything at the NHL level, I can't recall any of the prospects that we've traded away that are significant NHL players. And the ones that are playing in the NHL are the ones that are still on the Pens. Esposito, Morrow, Christensen, Cupati, Agostino, Hanowski... those guys haven't done ANYTHING yet. BUT Shero did acquire Pouliot, Harrington, Dumolin (you know the guys everyone on this board wants to go into the post season, playing 20 minutes a night.. yeah those guys...) Shero was good at drafting players and selling them high on trades, when they pan out to nothing. BUT He was bad at drafting actual players that were of use in the Pens system, IE forwards.

Yeah Murray was slow, but so was Hal Gill... and that worked out when we won the cup. I don't think that we acquired Iginla to "keep him away from Boston." We acquired to give us the best chance to win a cup. Not Shero's fault that the coach/players blew an opportunity with one of the most stacked Penguins teams in a salary cap era.

For as much bad as Shero did, he sure did a lot of good too... regardless of what everyone thinks.

How does someone in Tampa know what WaWa is? I thought they just built the first one in Orlando like 2 years ago.
- jmatchett383

hahaha they are here in Tampa now, they've been building them here the last year.. I literally have one like a mile from my house right across the street from the Casino

and next year when Pouliot and Harrington are up for good, we have what exactly on the farm. We have a goalie prospect and maybe two forward prospects. Then again Kapanen probably makes the roster, so ...
- Oneonta Penguin

And it's a bad thing for our prospects to graduate to the NHL? There would be a lot of teams that would gladly trade their prospects for ours

Who cares about the farm system, the time to win is very rapidly passing. Win now, needs to be the mindset of this organization. I would sell the WBS franchise to the Flyers if we could win 2 more Cups with Sid and Geno. After they are gone, rebuild then.

- nbartley9

I agree to a point, but that is what we said in 2008-2010... It basically worked, but it left us in a point last year where a Brian Gibbon's injury in the playoffs basically derailed the top 6 for a while.

Why do I have a feeling you stare out your window and angrily shake your fist at kids and their loud music.
- Rawdog9755

Them kids and their damn rock n roll !!!!!

just skimming, but i thought i saw sutter and bennett for vermette and someone said no?

i can see the coyotes saying no for sure.

but from a pens perspective? im all over that.

Who cares about the farm system, the time to win is very rapidly passing. Win now, needs to be the mindset of this organization. I would sell the WBS franchise to the Flyers if we could win 2 more Cups with Sid and Geno. After they are gone, rebuild then.


F The Farm system


F Sutter


WWJJD
- nbartley9

UMMMM ... considering how fragile this team is and has been, we have to rely on WBS quite a bit, or don't you pay attention. I would rather have some good prospects to rely on in the case of injury instead of seeing the Sill's and Jason Megna's of the world up here. Not rocket science.

And it's a bad thing for our prospects to graduate to the NHL? There would be a lot of teams that would gladly trade their prospects for ours
- willi

our farm system is devoid talent. That is why we have to rely on the players we do. It's devoid of talent because of foolish trades for non impact rentals that don't yield much when they come over.

our farm system is devoid talent. That is why we have to rely on the players we do. It's devoid of talent because of foolish trades for non impact rentals that don't yield much when they come over.
- Oneonta Penguin

And if we would have won the cup with any of those non impact rentals, they would have been considered impact rentals and great trades, but because we haven't they aren't. Hindsight is always 20/20.