love Hossa wish we coulda kept him especially since the package we moved to get him.
i wouldn't want to move either crosby or malkin but crosby would get a better return at this point imo.

I don't think we have the testicular fortitude to beat some of these bigger stronger more determined teams in the playoffs.

I say hold where we are: unless we can get someone signed longterm who's 23-27 big and plays a physical smart 2 way game. Buflyieun type guy (he be perfect imo but not likely) love the def/off potential so if loosing one of 4/7/10 hurts you could drop him back game to game to help on the blue line.

if not id let martin and erhoff go ufa, buyout scuderi and rebuild the lower end of our offense. let the defense we have in our farm system get the chance to play. if you could bring in a better top six guy that would deepen the bottom 6 by pushing a top 6 guy(kunitz/dupuis/comeau) down and who he replaces down to 4th


so for giggles

buff/burns/72 87 39 58/3
14 71 buff/burns/72 51/47
17 16 9 8/16/41
23 40 26

kapenen/sundqvuist maybe able to be plugged in too

OK I'll bite: Last year's playoff - GAA against Columbus greater than 3.0. How many teams score 4 goals/game in the playoffs.

In the Ranger series up 3-1 in games and can't close out the series. In 5 of the 7 games his svg.% less than .90%.

In game 6 (in NY) which was the lock of the here for bettors he quickly gives up 2 goals in the first 12 minutes - whoops Hank is not going to let in 2 - game over!!

So I guess you believe that his performance against Columbus was good? His performance against the Rangers (his 2 shutouts - one with 15 saves and the other where the Rangers hit 3 posts was also good? What am I missing?

By the way as I had stated earlier I don't love or hate this guy - just trying to take the homerism out of analysis.

I guess a lot of the posters like the fact that he is "well liked and good in the locker room" being more important than playing big in big games.
- Vegasman

The problem I have with MAF is that he's maddeningly inconsistent.

His GAA versus Columbus was not over 3, it was 2.81 (18 GA in 384 minutes). That said, his actual play for the most part of the series was good, but he had letdowns at key moments. Still, he made the stops they needed, and had a strong bounceback in Game 5 after the Game 4 meltdown.

In the NYR, he had 2 shutouts, but also got strafed for 5 goals on game. Again, you had inconsistency from game to game. In Game 7, he gave them every opportunity to win. But, when you offense only gives you 1 goal per game in 3 straight games, you're not going to win many.

Overall, MAF will give you great performances yet leave you infuriated at other times. It's the nature of the beast that is MAF.

Yes it was me and everyone throws names out like Lundqvest and Rinne or Miller, but there was no one available that was an upgrade over him and JR agreed as well. Sure Halak could have been as good or better, but the timing wasn't right. I have yet to see a scenario where the Pens could have improved over MAF.
- sammy87

Penguin fans have suggested that the trigger should be pulled for Lundqvist? I find that hard to believe. I'm sure also that you'd be happy to keep redefining 'upgrade' so long as it suited you.

JR signed a similar deal in Carolina with Cam Ward. That's working out very well.

The problem I have with MAF is that he's maddeningly inconsistent.

His GAA versus Columbus was not over 3, it was 2.81 (18 GA in 384 minutes). That said, his actual play for the most part of the series was good, but he had letdowns at key moments. Still, he made the stops they needed, and had a strong bounceback in Game 5 after the Game 4 meltdown.

In the NYR, he had 2 shutouts, but also got strafed for 5 goals on game. Again, you had inconsistency from game to game. In Game 7, he gave them every opportunity to win. But, when you offense only gives you 1 goal per game in 3 straight games, you're not going to win many.

Overall, MAF will give you great performances yet leave you infuriated at other times. It's the nature of the beast that is MAF.
- jmatchett383

You are correct - forgot the score of one game was 3-1. However MAF is not close to being Bernie Parent. My take is that he will never win another Stanley cup unless Geno and or Sid have a big playoff series. It's true that the Pens have had trouble scoring against Lundqvist but when does MAF win a goalie dual like he did against Osgood again?

Why would Chicago want to do that exactly? Also, who else are they getting rid of to fit Sutter under the Cap both this year and next?
- PensFan1103

No idea haven't gone that far as there is no Capgeek anymore. Hawks are in some serious trouble & will have to let others go along with Richards next year IMO. Richards seems to be getting better with the season & can be a senior player that the Pens need - why would Chicago do it? They probably wouldn't, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Adams will score a clutch goal in the playoffs. Always does.

State Of The Penguins-By me

This teams problems are so simple its disgusting, the problem is they are a lot harder to fix than they should be. Its leadership, but its not who you think it is; this teams Captain's leadership style is a lot like our former Captain's the same one that owns the team right now. He leads by example, his example hasn't been so great lately. Regardless that is how he leads and that's how he will lead until his career is over, and that's ok; it worked for Lemieux.

The problem is Mario had a few great very verbal leaders on his teams that helped out with the guys that respond to the ra-ra type of leadership(Billy G style). Stevens, Francis and Loney all had a lot to say in that locker room. If anyone has read anything about our first 2 Cups, there are countless stories of verbal leadership that got points across to the team, but none that I can recall were preformed by Mario (I could be wrong and if so I would love to hear the story).

This teams problem is, that our most vocal "leader"; is the guy with worst most entitled attitude in the history of this organization; Brandon F'n Sutturd. Since the moment he stepped on the ice with our team he has had an entitled attitude and a lazier than shaat work ethic. Now after watching "in the Room" all year he is far and away the most vocal leader on our team. He is corrupting the entire locker room, and slowly destroying our organization. He needs to be eliminated and it needs to happen now, he is the epitome of the "country club attitude" that our team has been so often referred. This guy is a bloody, hair and tooth filled tumor that is killing the Penguins organization from the inside out. I don't care who we get for him, if anyone; I could care less but he needs to go and he needs to go now. The guy is a total waste on the ice, even when he gets his beautiful short handed goals they normally come off a bad bounce or a fluke play; very rarely is it a result of hard work and determination.

In closing F Sutter

WWJJD
- nbartley9

Wow your hatred and obsession with Sutter is even worse than I thought. Have you thought of professional help.


I'm sorry I just can't believe Sutter could have that much influence on the team and if he does getting rid of him won't solve the problem, because the problem would be deeper that that.

I just can't figure out why Jason Karmanos was hired. For those of you that have forgotten, he was brought in with the Jim Rutherford tenure to focus on analytics, yet clearly he is doing a terrible job or Jim Rutherford is not listening to him. Either way, why are we paying him?
- neilsonnn18

Do I have to put this anymore clearly for you people. NHL people like head coaches, assistant coaches, GM's, assistant GM's, associate GM's, assistant to the associate GM, Owners and me laugh at fancy stats on a daily basis. Hiring these people is simply a PR display. They sit in a room and submit reports that never get looked at. Fancy stats are worthless. Ryan Wilson says Sutter sucks, then backs it up with charts and graphs and it leads people to believe you would have never known this without charts and graphs. #thinkforyourself #watchthegame #whatdoes#mean#

Do I have to put this anymore clearly for you people. NHL people like head coaches, assistant coaches, GM's, assistant GM's, associate GM's, assistant to the associate GM, Owners and me laugh at fancy stats on a daily basis. Hiring these people is simply a PR display. They sit in a room and submit reports that never get looked at. Fancy stats are worthless. Ryan Wilson says Sutter sucks, then backs it up with charts and graphs and it leads people to believe you would have never known this without charts and graphs. #thinkforyourself #watchthegame #whatdoes#mean#
- Grinder47

Do you understand how moronic this sounds? You are basically advocating making claims without any real basis and looking down on people who attempt to present evidence for their case. First of all, what's the point of knowing something if you don't know why? We can say that Brandon Sutter is bad all we want, but if we don't know why he is actually bad, we may (frank) up in fixing the problem when it comes to going out and getting his replacement.

Second of all, aren't you one of the guys who thinks Craig Adams is actually good? Most people when they use their eyes see Craig Adams as a bad hockey player, almost every stat (normal and fancy) back us up, yet you argue he is more than deserving of a roster spot. Also, most people think Malkin is a top 5 center in world, the stats (once again, normal and fancy) agree, yet you want him traded. Why would I ever take your eye test as a credible source over analytics? Because you're conceded enough to believe that you're minority opinion is better than everyone else's and therefore requires no actual explanation grounded in any concrete fact? I can say random poop too just as authoritatively as you but that doesn't make me any less of a jackass.

Do I have to put this anymore clearly for you people. NHL people like head coaches, assistant coaches, GM's, assistant GM's, associate GM's, assistant to the associate GM, Owners and me laugh at fancy stats on a daily basis. Hiring these people is simply a PR display. They sit in a room and submit reports that never get looked at. Fancy stats are worthless. Ryan Wilson says Sutter sucks, then backs it up with charts and graphs and it leads people to believe you would have never known this without charts and graphs. #thinkforyourself #watchthegame #whatdoes#mean#
- Grinder47

This is one of the better comments of the year. How do you feel about math with letters? A bunch of hoopla isnt it?

Do you understand how moronic this sounds? You are basically advocating making claims without any real basis and looking down on people who attempt to present evidence for their case. First of all, what's the point of knowing something if you don't know why? We can say that Brandon Sutter is bad all we want, but if we don't know why he is actually bad, we may (frank) up in fixing the problem when it comes to going out and getting his replacement.

Second of all, aren't you one of the guys who thinks Craig Adams is actually good? Most people when they use their eyes see Craig Adams as a bad hockey player, almost every stat (normal and fancy) back us up, yet you argue he is more than deserving of a roster spot. Also, most people think Malkin is a top 5 center in world, the stats (once again, normal and fancy) agree, yet you want him traded. Why would I ever take your eye test as a credible source over analytics? Because you're conceded enough to believe that you're minority opinion is better than everyone else's and therefore requires no actual explanation grounded in any concrete fact? I can say random poop too just as authoritatively as you but that doesn't make me any less of a jackass.
- Victoro311

He isn't real, no one could actually be that stupid.

He isn't real, no one could actually be that stupid.
- usethe1-2-2

New to the board huh?

Do you understand how moronic this sounds? You are basically advocating making claims without any real basis and looking down on people who attempt to present evidence for their case. First of all, what's the point of knowing something if you don't know why? We can say that Brandon Sutter is bad all we want, but if we don't know why he is actually bad, we may (frank) up in fixing the problem when it comes to going out and getting his replacement.

Second of all, aren't you one of the guys who thinks Craig Adams is actually good? Most people when they use their eyes see Craig Adams as a bad hockey player, almost every stat (normal and fancy) back us up, yet you argue he is more than deserving of a roster spot. Also, most people think Malkin is a top 5 center in world, the stats (once again, normal and fancy) agree, yet you want him traded. Why would I ever take your eye test as a credible source over analytics? Because you're conceded enough to believe that you're minority opinion is better than everyone else's and therefore requires no actual explanation grounded in any concrete fact? I can say random poop too just as authoritatively as you but that doesn't make me any less of a jackass.
- Victoro311

You mean me and NHL coaches right?

Do I have to put this anymore clearly for you people. NHL people like head coaches, assistant coaches, GM's, assistant GM's, associate GM's, assistant to the associate GM, Owners and me laugh at fancy stats on a daily basis. Hiring these people is simply a PR display. They sit in a room and submit reports that never get looked at. Fancy stats are worthless. Ryan Wilson says Sutter sucks, then backs it up with charts and graphs and it leads people to believe you would have never known this without charts and graphs. #thinkforyourself #watchthegame #whatdoes#mean#
- Grinder47

Yep, its a huge conspiracy in the NHL to use, implement, and mention advanced stats on a daily basis, while secretly ignoring it.

New to the board huh?
- Thorny

No, but I will never believe that he could actually be that way. No one is that insane.

Yep, its a huge conspiracy in the NHL to use, implement, and mention advanced stats on a daily basis, while secretly ignoring it.


- Guile

NHL.com and the NHL network. Yep Fancy stats really made it.

Yep, its a huge conspiracy in the NHL to use, implement, and mention advanced stats on a daily basis, while secretly ignoring it.


- Guile

NHL.com and the NHL network. Yep Fancy stats really made it.

This is one of the better comments of the year. How do you feel about math with letters? A bunch of hoopla isnt it?
- usethe1-2-2

It makes you look very insecure when you always try to make understanding fancy stats about being smart. I could teach my dog to look and react to a chart using breath treats.

You mean me and NHL coaches right?
- Grinder47

Let's think this one out...

So in '08 he was traded away from Carolina for a conditional draft pick. Ringing endorsement of a player's ability right there. Also, the 2007-2008 Blackhawks were not a very good hockey team. Its not like a contender was trading for him. He basically got dumped off on a lackluster team which is what happens to useless players.

The next season, the Hawks put him on waivers, and at this point, the Hawks are a pretty darn good hockey team. Craig Adams was bringing nothing to the table on a cup contending team, so he got waved. That's what happens when you suck.

Then the Pens picked him up. That's fine. We had holes to fill and it worked out. He was serviceable for us for whatever reason when he wasn't for the Blackhawks. Good for him and good for us. Unfortunately, we didn't quite move on after that. Shero was incapable of putting together a competent bottom 6 after the cup year, so Adams was never made obsolete. Instead, he became a mainstay on one of the worst bottom 6s in the league. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for his ability either.

Let's think this one out...

So in '08 he was traded away from Carolina for a conditional draft pick. Ringing endorsement of a player's ability right there. Also, the 2007-2008 Blackhawks were not a very good hockey team. Its not like a contender was trading for him. He basically got dumped off on a lackluster team which is what happens to useless players.

The next season, the Hawks put him on waivers, and at this point, the Hawks are a pretty darn good hockey team. Craig Adams was bringing nothing to the table on a cup contending team, so he got waved. That's what happens when you suck.

Then the Pens picked him up. That's fine. We had holes to fill and it worked out. He was serviceable for us for whatever reason when he wasn't for the Blackhawks. Good for him and good for us. Unfortunately, we didn't quite move on after that. Shero was incapable of putting together a competent bottom 6 after the cup year, so Adams was never made obsolete. Instead, he became a mainstay on one of the worst bottom 6s in the league. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for his ability either.
- Victoro311

I thought i was the only one who wikipediad craig adams.

It makes you look very insecure when you always try to make understanding fancy stats about being smart. I could teach my dog to look and react to a chart using breath treats.
- Grinder47

Being smart? No, just ignorant. Smart people deny advance knowledge all the time whether it be rational or irrational.
The fact is advanced stats are now user in 75% of clubs and able to be used in arbitration. Dismissing them because you believe that those who like stats don't actually understand the game is painfully ignorant. Its another tool to understanding a very complex game. Why would you willingfully deny access to that?

Do I have to put this anymore clearly for you people. NHL people like head coaches, assistant coaches, GM's, assistant GM's, associate GM's, assistant to the associate GM, Owners and me laugh at fancy stats on a daily basis. Hiring these people is simply a PR display. They sit in a room and submit reports that never get looked at. Fancy stats are worthless. Ryan Wilson says Sutter sucks, then backs it up with charts and graphs and it leads people to believe you would have never known this without charts and graphs. #thinkforyourself #watchthegame #whatdoes#mean#
- Grinder47

In my opinion the trade for Lapierre, JR would have looked at the stats, but what he can see & the stats cannot is the type of physical player Lapeirre is & Goc isn't.

Now if you read some Blues blogs sounds like Goc is going ok but he has 2 mean sob's on his line that needed his type of ability. I think you said Lapeirre is a monster chasing dumped in pucks - there is no stat that I've seen for that (correct me if I'm wrong), & Goc isn't. We don't need that much finesse due to our other lines, we need a little more grunt & aggression to compliment our finesse.

I thought i was the only one who wikipediad craig adams.
- Grinder47

Not sure what you're implying is. Your argument is that NHL head coaches and GMs think Adams is a good hockey player, yet I pointed out that the previous two regimes that he was a part of dumped him like trash. He was serviceable during our cup season. Idunno. Maybe he got a second wind? Maybe he got lucky? I'm not going to debate the merits of one half of Craig Adams' season that happened over half a decade ago. The point is, he only continued to play on our squad because our fourth line was at league worst level, and its still essentially poop. We got Sill to get rid of first so I'm not gonna sit here and say that Comeau's return will kick him to the curb, but if we were fully healthy and had Dupuis back too, Adams would be gone in a heart beat. He has no place on healthy cup contender roster, or a competent NHL average 4th line, for that matter.

Not sure what you're implying is. Your argument is that NHL head coaches and GMs think Adams is a good hockey player, yet I pointed out that the previous two regimes that he was a part of dumped him like trash. He was serviceable during our cup season. Idunno. Maybe he got a second wind? Maybe he got lucky? I'm not going to debate the merits of one half of Craig Adams' season that happened over half a decade ago. The point is, he only continued to play on our squad because our fourth line was at league worst level, and its still essentially poop. We got Sill to get rid of first so I'm not gonna sit here and say that Comeau's return will kick him to the curb, but if we were fully healthy and had Dupuis back too, Adams would be gone in a heart beat. He has no place on healthy cup contender roster, or a competent NHL average 4th line, for that matter.
- Victoro311

Craig Adams on the roster is just a produt of not having ANY capable forwards in the farm system. Would the coaches ice a player without experience that sucks or a player with experience that sucks?

Any word on Ehrhoff?