Yeah apparently to have the freedom to go and do whatever the F you want is frowned upon with Pens fans.

Cant blame him, Wings were rolling that hole season, Pens were a 10 seed until they fired the coach and brought in Kuni.
- sammy87

wouldve been cool if he stayed. but he was a rental. thats the risk you take.

its not like he dogged it in his time here. far from it.

he has been one of the better, more unheralded players of his time, with a great 2 way game. no dirty reputation on or off the ice, whatsoever.

hell even when he signed with detroit, it really wasnt about the money. he signed a one year deal, potentially a risky move. he just wanted to win a cup.

again, would have loved him long term, but i dont see any fault or reason to boo him. still love the guy and the way he plays.

Nabokov is on waivers. I have more faith in Nabokov winning a home game against the Flyers than MAF.

The time to move on from MAF was in the last years of his old contract. Pittsburgh should have traded for either Bernier or Schneider. Or sign Miller if they're still thinking that they could compete in the playoffs.
- Johnny Wrath

Just stop..

For all the MAF haters, name a goalie as good that the Pens could go out and get today or via FA and how would you move MAF?

71 has been better this year than 87, but to say 87 has a decline in production just isn't true. He has the same PPG avg as Vorachek and 2 big games away from the pt lead.
- sammy87

Not a Fleury hater or lover. The point is I think that most goalies get the Pens to the playoffs because of the Pens firepower. All of them can lose in the playoffs just as he has over the last five years. So as RW pointed out early in the season maybe it's time to try someone else.

As far as moving Fleury I think it would hard to do because most of the good teams have little controversy with their goalies but maybe some of the lesser teams will be willing to take a chance on him hoping a change of scenery would solve his mental problems.

Is the sky falling or are the Pens just in a bad spot?

Malkin returns, you have a top six again. Perron Sid Horny - Kunitz Malkin Bennett

You are maybe 10 days away from Comeau returning to spark the bottom six, or push down Beau.

People are freaking out over a bad month. A really bad month. But it is only a month. Western road trips make or break a season. Let's see what we have, but lets see the proper personnel in place.

Nabokov is on waivers. I have more faith in Nabokov winning a home game against the Flyers than MAF.

The time to move on from MAF was in the last years of his old contract. Pittsburgh should have traded for either Bernier or Schneider. Or sign Miller if they're still thinking that they could compete in the playoffs.
- Johnny Wrath

The first part is

I don't get the Hossa hate.
He came over in a trade (with Dupuis) as a rental and played amazingly (OT series winner versus NYR, anyone).
Then, knowing he was a rental, he signed with Detroit who the Penguins beat in the SCF.

I don't get why that's so bad.
- jmatchett383

I think it was how it went down... or at least how it was portrayed in the media. It seems like he strung along the Pens, then passed up a more lucrative offer with the Pens, and signed a one year deal with Detroit for what he said was a "better chance to win." Pens fans viewed that as a shot against the Pens.

In reality, Hossa told the Pens more than a week before UFA day that he was going to test the market.

I hold nothing against him... it was a ballsy move taking a one year deal in Detroit, instead of cashing in on the big money.

From what was out there, he waited until well into July 1st weighing offers (certainly his right), and passed on a big

You think the Flyers will stand in the Penguins path to a Cup this year? Or next year?
- jmatchett383

The point is that Philly wrote the 'How to get in MAF's kitchen' book. The season dedicated to 'not letting that (loss of composure against the Flyers) happen again' was the one in which the Islanders immediately used the Philadelphia strategy to eliminate MAF as a factor in the playoffs.

Philadelphia is like the MAF's El Guapo. El Guapo may assume many forms, including but not limited to the Islanders or the Bruins.

Not a Fleury hater or lover. The point is I think that most goalies get the Pens to the playoffs because of the Pens firepower. All of them can lose in the playoffs just as he has over the last five years. So as RW pointed out early in the season maybe it's time to try someone else.

As far as moving Fleury I think it would hard to do because most of the good teams have little controversy with their goalies but maybe some of the lesser teams will be willing to take a chance on him hoping a change of scenery would solve his mental problems.
- Vegasman

IDK, to me it just seemed like the last playoff failures were more a result of lack of scoring, lack of depth, and basically being abused.

The point is that Philly wrote the 'How to get in MAF's kitchen' book. The season dedicated to 'not letting that (loss of composure against the Flyers) happen again' was the one in which the Islanders immediately used the Philadelphia strategy to eliminate MAF as a factor in the playoffs.

Philadelphia is like the MAF's El Guapo. El Guapo may assume many forms, including but not limited to the Islanders or the Bruins.
- Johnny Wrath

Right...But last year, aside from the Game 4 vs. CBJ implosion, he was one of your best, steadiest players. I don't see why that would change now.

Right...But last year, aside from the Game 4 vs. CBJ implosion, he was one of your best, steadiest players. I don't see why that would change now.
- jmatchett383

Guys like to bring up his previous collapses and utterly ignore last years playoffs. It's not even a case of "What have you done for me lately". It's a case of "Hey, remember when".

Right...But last year, aside from the Game 4 vs. CBJ implosion, he was one of your best, steadiest players. I don't see why that would change now.
- jmatchett383

Because a little implosion, as opposed to a large implosion, keeps alive the threat of implosion as the team in front of him tries to play a hockey game.

Has anyone who is a proponent of trading Malkin actually been watching the past 1.5 seasons? Malkin has been far and away the penguins most consistent and dangerous player, while Crosby, for whatever reason, seems much less so and has been suffering from declining production. I don't want to trade either, but given that, plus with Crosby's concussion history, if forced to choose between the 2, its a no brainer in my mind that I would send 87 packing.
- Emperor Filonius

As crazy as it sounds I would have to agree with you. Of course, I think trading any one of Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, or Letang is nuts. Between Crosby and Malkin though, Malkin is the bigger player and the one more capable of withstanding abuse. In today's NHL size is very important and bigger players have a tendency to get less rattled when taking hard hits and Crosby is the target of lots of hits. I sometimes think that he and Malkin should play on the same line more just to less the abuse Crosby takes. Opposing players can't ignore Malkin when he is on the ice. Giving Crosby wingers like Downie can actually make the situation worse because opposing players are even more inclined to stay away from Downie and just target Crosby all the more.

Guys like to bring up his previous collapses and utterly ignore last years playoffs. It's not even a case of "What have you done for me lately". It's a case of "Hey, remember when".
- Ben37

A .915 save % last year...

A .919 this season...

That is relatively average.

Right...But last year, aside from the Game 4 vs. CBJ implosion, he was one of your best, steadiest players. I don't see why that would change now.
- jmatchett383

Well, anything can change with Fleury as we have all seen. I am more comfortable with him than I have been in year's past. Especially considering the hot start he got off to. I think he will be average at worst come the playoffs. I think his bumbling, stumbling days are behind him for the most part. That being said...

I still don't understand why GMJR was in such a rush to extend him. Yeah, he started great, and for once in his career was putting up top of the league stats. He peaked in December with GAA around 2.00 and a save % around .935. Unfortunately he followed that up with an atrocious January that saw those numbers around 3.02 and .893. Granted this team was injury riddled in January and that will account for some of it, but if he finishes the year that way, and heaven forbid if he has another playoff meltdown, that extension is going to look terrible. I just didn't see any reason to do it then. Wait and see how he performs the whole year and playoffs.

Brad Richards & a pick for Sutter.

Guys like to bring up his previous collapses and utterly ignore last years playoffs. It's not even a case of "What have you done for me lately". It's a case of "Hey, remember when".
- Ben37

Before making an argument, it is often helpful to understand what your opponent may say. MAF is, in the last 5 seasons, 2-4 in the playoffs. Do you really want to stake Fleury's reputation on a 2-round playoff exit which featured a classic Fleury gaffe? A series loss to a lower seeded team five years in a row? One which came back from a 3-1 deficit? One which had a real problem scoring goals? One that dropped MAF's home Game 7 record to 0-3 in the last five seasons?

Brad Richards & a pick for Sutter.
- Aussiepenguin

Why would Chicago want to do that exactly? Also, who else are they getting rid of to fit Sutter under the Cap both this year and next?

Before making an argument, it is often helpful to understand what your opponent may say. MAF is, in the last 5 seasons, 2-4 in the playoffs. Do you really want to stake Fleury's reputation on a 2-round playoff exit which featured a classic Fleury gaffe? A series loss to a lower seeded team five years in a row? One which came back from a 3-1 deficit? One which had a real problem scoring goals? One that dropped MAF's home Game 7 record to 0-3 in the last five seasons?
- Johnny Wrath

Apply all that reasoning to Nabokov and let me know what you come up with since thats the best solution you have to MAF.

Why would Chicago want to do that exactly? Also, who else are they getting rid of to fit Sutter under the Cap both this year and next?
- PensFan1103

Seriously? Isn't Richards having a decent year in Chicago?

Although I do agree Malkin has been our most dynamic player, Crosby will never go anywhere. He is the face of not only the Penguins, but the NHL and hockey as a whole. The Penguins wouldn't move him, they make far too much money off of his name alone to consider dealing him.
- znagle

People said the same thing about Gretzky.

Please be clear, I AM NOT saying they should trade him, just that if you put a gun to my head and said "who do you trade if you HAD to trade one?", I would deal 87.

People said the same thing about Gretzky.

Please be clear, I AM NOT saying they should trade him, just that if you put a gun to my head and said "who do you trade if you HAD to trade one?", I would deal 87.
- Emperor Filonius

Gretzky, Jagr, all completely different scenarios compared to moving either 87 and 71. The previous moves were both financially motivated. Although EDM won a cup after moving 99, but 99 did not ever win a cup again. I wouldn't view a trade like that compared to Jagr or 99, I would compare the potential to a Lindros type deal.

Apply all that reasoning to Nabokov and let me know what you come up with since thats the best solution you have to MAF.
- sammy87

I love sarcasm so very much.

Was't it you who put up the 'who could you get today instead of MAF?' premise? I know over the last four seasons who I would have rather had, and so do most of the readers here. I leave it to them to decide who has been offering solutions and who is merely trying to change the subject.

I love sarcasm so very much.

Was't it you who put up the 'who could you get today instead of MAF?' premise? I know over the last four seasons who I would have rather had, and so do most of the readers here. I leave it to them to decide who has been offering solutions and who is merely trying to change the subject.
- Johnny Wrath

Yes it was me and everyone throws names out like Lundqvest and Rinne or Miller, but there was no one available that was an upgrade over him and JR agreed as well. Sure Halak could have been as good or better, but the timing wasn't right. I have yet to see a scenario where the Pens could have improved over MAF.

People said the same thing about Gretzky.

Please be clear, I AM NOT saying they should trade him, just that if you put a gun to my head and said "who do you trade if you HAD to trade one?", I would deal 87.
- Emperor Filonius

Gretzky was traded due to purely financial reasons both times. In a salary cap world, that would never ever happen.

Guys like to bring up his previous collapses and utterly ignore last years playoffs. It's not even a case of "What have you done for me lately". It's a case of "Hey, remember when".
- Ben37

OK I'll bite: Last year's playoff - GAA against Columbus greater than 3.0. How many teams score 4 goals/game in the playoffs.

In the Ranger series up 3-1 in games and can't close out the series. In 5 of the 7 games his svg.% less than .90%.

In game 6 (in NY) which was the lock of the here for bettors he quickly gives up 2 goals in the first 12 minutes - whoops Hank is not going to let in 2 - game over!!

So I guess you believe that his performance against Columbus was good? His performance against the Rangers (his 2 shutouts - one with 15 saves and the other where the Rangers hit 3 posts was also good? What am I missing?

By the way as I had stated earlier I don't love or hate this guy - just trying to take the homerism out of analysis.

I guess a lot of the posters like the fact that he is "well liked and good in the locker room" being more important than playing big in big games.