I really, really thought that Fleury would be a UFA, not get an extension. I always use the post-09 cup as the starting point to see what the core has done since then, and he's won 2 of the 4 playoff series. That's something.

How rattled he gets is another, and how well he broadcasts that he's rattled is just a perfect representation of what the huge issue with the core of the team is. I really do think an average goalie, like Ryan Miller, could win 40+ regular season games with Pittsburgh and then go into the playoffs without the trepidation of another collapse bleeding through the team. It's psychological almost as much as it is performance.
- Johnny Wrath

This team did not lose in the playoffs the last two years because of goal tending. Your post about system and defending is spot on however. Until they realize the way you win a cup in this version of the NHL is through shots on net/going to the net and superior team defense, they won't win.

Yes he does have one. If I were him and got traded, I would pull a Kovalchuk and retire and get payed from the NHL, while playing in the KHL getting payed even more
- znagle

Why would you retire?

Very well thought out post, but I can't get on board with MAF; he has been our best player this season, besides Downie..
- nbartley9

Interested in why you can't get on board with MAF (or Creampuff) as he is known here in Vegas. The guy has been unable to win big games over the last five years. Has been outplayed by such greats as Roloson, Halak, Bryz, Nabokov and Lundqvist in the playoffs and his performance last year in what is considered tough games (road games against playoff teams) was awful.

He started the season hot (great games in Nashville and Montreal on the road) but has cooled off to the point that it looks like another disappointing season end is insight. Outside of the Pittsburgh writers not many hockey people feel this guy is any more than an average goalie on a high scoring team.

Just curious as to why you think this guy is anything special?

Why would you retire?
- jmatchett383

Get payed millions from the NHL, make over 10 million a year from the KHL playing easy competition..

Get payed millions from the NHL, make over 10 million a year from the KHL playing easy competition..
- znagle

So what's to stop him from doing that right now? Why would the trade be a factor?

Interested in why you can't get on board with MAF (or Creampuff) as he is known here in Vegas. The guy has been unable to win big games over the last five years. Has been outplayed by such greats as Roloson, Halak, Bryz, Nabokov and Lundqvist in the playoffs and his performance last year in what is considered tough games (road games against playoff teams) was awful.

He started the season hot (great games in Nashville and Montreal on the road) but has cooled off to the point that it looks like another disappointing season end is insight. Outside of the Pittsburgh writers not many hockey people feel this guy is any more than an average goalie on a high scoring team.

Just curious as to why you think this guy is anything special?
- Vegasman

His athleticism/pure reflexes are unmatched in the NHL; under a better defensive scheme he was brilliant in 08'; all he needs is direction which he has received this year. His angles are a million times better than they were last year he is not over playing shots; which is his #1 problem; when he looks awful that's what he is doing. Which is a direct correlation with his D-men leaving him out to dry, which is the reason in the past he has tried to do too much. He doesn't do that anymore, not one game this year have I seen him over play shots and flail around like a tasered gang banger. He is a world class talent, he just needed pointed in the right direction, now he has that.

So what's to stop him from doing that right now? Why would the trade be a factor?
- jmatchett383

He's apparently very much opposed to playing anywhere but Pittsburgh and Magnitogorsk. Apparently. I think he goes back to Russia if his NTC is threatened.

This team did not lose in the playoffs the last two years because of goal tending. Your post about system and defending is spot on however. Until they realize the way you win a cup in this version of the NHL is through shots on net/going to the net and superior team defense, they won't win.
- madmike71

Big time goalies stop the puck in big games! If you look at last year's playoffs MAF's save % was over 3 in the Columbus series but his teammates bailed him out by scoring 4 goals in 4 games.

In the Ranger series in 5 of the 7 games his save % below .90% - and again blows a 3-1 series lead. The guy is the softest guy on the team.

The year before he got pulled against the Isles for terrible play.

Did they lose because of MAF totally - NO - but he was and is a big reason for failing to advance deep into the playoffs.

His athleticism/pure reflexes... now he has that.
- nbartley9

Do you think the psyche of the team is tied, even indirectly, to Fleury's habit of falling apart completely? Do you think the culture of the team is? Would that be worth evaluating?

So what's to stop him from doing that right now? Why would the trade be a factor?
- jmatchett383

He's comfortable in Pittsburgh and loves it there. Going to Montreal with all the french Canadians would be a little... odd. Having to restart in Montreal would take a while to get used to.

Edit: same thing Johnny Wrath said

He's apparently very much opposed to playing anywhere but Pittsburgh and Magnitogorsk. Apparently. I think he goes back to Russia if his NTC is threatened.
- Johnny Wrath

I think he'd love to go to Montreal and play with Gonchar, Markov, and Emelin.

Maybe, to do the deal, Montreal would have to have the green light to talk to him about playing in Montreal and his intentions were he traded.

Sutter for Bergenheim + (not sure they are in dire need for a guy like him but they want to shed older salary like Bergy)

Future assets for Winnik (not even sure what the going rate on guys like him are)

Perron Sid Horny
Kunitz Malkin Beau
Berg Spaling/Winnik Comeau
Spaling/Winnik Lappy Downie

Do you think the psyche of the team is tied, even indirectly, to Fleury's habit of falling apart completely? Do you think the culture of the team is? Would that be worth evaluating?
- Johnny Wrath

I think yes, that it most definitely was in everyone's head, I distinctly remember Brooks looking to the rafters after a goal last year in the CBJ series with that here we go again look in his eyes. Rightfully so it wasn't good, but I also think that the team has to have seen a difference in his game. Well not so much of a difference, but playing like the MAF from 08'. I also believe that everyone currently on this team would run through a brick wall for MAF, he is beloved by his team mates.

His athleticism/pure reflexes are unmatched in the NHL; under a better defensive scheme he was brilliant in 08'; all he needs is direction which he has received this year. His angles are a million times better than they were last year he is not over playing shots; which is his #1 problem; when he looks awful that's what he is doing. Which is a direct correlation with his D-men leaving him out to dry, which is the reason in the past he has tried to do too much. He doesn't do that anymore, not one game this year have I seen him over play shots and flail around like a tasered gang banger. He is a world class talent, he just needed pointed in the right direction, now he has that.
- nbartley9

OK you certainly are entitled to your opinion and obviously you are a big fan. I love when people post and indicate that this guy is left out to dry. Do you really think that other goalies do not have to come up with big saves in critical times. How about when Valamov stopped 54 shots against the Hawks in Chicago and Hillier stopped 49/50 against the Hawks in Chicago and won. Do you think maybe they were hung out to dry a few times but came up big?

Athletic yes, quick yes - world class talent (I guess when I was young and had favorites I might say the same thing).

Not totally blaming him for the Pens failures over the past five years but he certainly hasn't done anything to warrant the title of a "world class talent!"

Actually I love the guy he has won me quite of bid of money betting against him.

I think he'd love to go to Montreal and play with Gonchar, Markov, and Emelin.

Maybe, to do the deal, Montreal would have to have the green light to talk to him about playing in Montreal and his intentions were he traded.
- jmatchett383

It's a different hockey culture in Europe where a trade is a terrible and unspeakable thing. If you're from Helsinki, you play for Jokerit. Gothenberg, Frolunda. If you're from Metallurg, Magnitogorsk. They look down on the Swiss league for their more North American asset trading and so on.

Look at the Russians they surrounded Kovalchuk with in Atlanta. That shell is still being hollowed out.

Has anyone who is a proponent of trading Malkin actually been watching the past 1.5 seasons? Malkin has been far and away the penguins most consistent and dangerous player, while Crosby, for whatever reason, seems much less so and has been suffering from declining production. I don't want to trade either, but given that, plus with Crosby's concussion history, if forced to choose between the 2, its a no brainer in my mind that I would send 87 packing.

Do you think the psyche of the team is tied, even indirectly, to Fleury's habit of falling apart completely? Do you think the culture of the team is? Would that be worth evaluating?
- Johnny Wrath

It has to be -bad goals at bad times has to be deflating for the team

I think yes, that it most definitely was in everyone's head, I distinctly remember Brooks looking to the rafters after a goal last year in the CBJ series with that here we go again look in his eyes. Rightfully so it wasn't good, but I also think that the team has to have seen a difference in his game. Well not so much of a difference, but playing like the MAF from 08'. I also believe that everyone currently on this team would run through a brick wall for MAF, he is beloved by his team mates.
- nbartley9

They won't back check and pick up Ovechkin, though.

Has anyone who is a proponent of trading Malkin actually been watching the past 1.5 seasons? Malkin has been far and away the penguins most consistent and dangerous player, while Crosby, for whatever reason, seems much less so and has been suffering from declining production. I don't want to trade either, but given that, plus with Crosby's concussion history, if forced to choose between the 2, its a no brainer in my mind that I would send 87 packing.
- Emperor Filonius

Wow. Just wow.
Aside from on-ice reasons, trading Crosby would be unspeakable from a PR standpoint. The bulk of the fanbase would feel betrayed.

Has anyone who is a proponent of trading Malkin actually been watching the past 1.5 seasons? Malkin has been far and away the penguins most consistent and dangerous player, while Crosby, for whatever reason, seems much less so and has been suffering from declining production. I don't want to trade either, but given that, plus with Crosby's concussion history, if forced to choose between the 2, its a no brainer in my mind that I would send 87 packing.
- Emperor Filonius

I agree with you - and I think Malkin's been the better player throughout their career -but I really couldn't have been the one who pointed that out.

Has anyone who is a proponent of trading Malkin actually been watching the past 1.5 seasons? Malkin has been far and away the penguins most consistent and dangerous player, while Crosby, for whatever reason, seems much less so and has been suffering from declining production. I don't want to trade either, but given that, plus with Crosby's concussion history, if forced to choose between the 2, its a no brainer in my mind that I would send 87 packing.
- Emperor Filonius

Although I do agree Malkin has been our most dynamic player, Crosby will never go anywhere. He is the face of not only the Penguins, but the NHL and hockey as a whole. The Penguins wouldn't move him, they make far too much money off of his name alone to consider dealing him.

OK you certainly are entitled to your opinion and obviously you are a big fan. I love when people post and indicate that this guy is left out to dry. Do you really think that other goalies do not have to come up with big saves in critical times. How about when Valamov stopped 54 shots against the Hawks in Chicago and Hillier stopped 49/50 against the Hawks in Chicago and won. Do you think maybe they were hung out to dry a few times but came up big?

Athletic yes, quick yes - world class talent (I guess when I was young and had favorites I might say the same thing).

Not totally blaming him for the Pens failures over the past five years but he certainly hasn't done anything to warrant the title of a "world class talent!"

Actually I love the guy he has won me quite of bid of money betting against him.
- Vegasman

Haha im not that young, look at my avatar for gods sake haha I watched every single goal of the 91'-92' Cup run. MAF has not been good for the last 5 years and I wont say that he has. However he still can be the player he once was.

Every goalie gets hung out to dry, which reminds me of the fact that there is not a goalie in the league as good at stopping breakaways as Flower. Not a single one.

Would you agree at all that he looks different this year? Bigger in his net? Maybe a bit farther back in the paint? Looks more precise and sure of his angles? Because I have.

Big time goalies stop the puck in big games! If you look at last year's playoffs MAF's save % was over 3 in the Columbus series but his teammates bailed him out by scoring 4 goals in 4 games.

In the Ranger series in 5 of the 7 games his save % below .90% - and again blows a 3-1 series lead. The guy is the softest guy on the team.

The year before he got pulled against the Isles for terrible play.

Did they lose because of MAF totally - NO - but he was and is a big reason for failing to advance deep into the playoffs.
- Vegasman

I'm not MAF's biggest fan, but I recognize the team in front of him frequently fails to play SC worthy defense. He certainly deserved to be pulled from the Isle series, but if the Isle even had an average tender they still lose......even though TV played out of his mind.

If I said this once I said it 1000 times.... Go watch the team the won the cup in 2009 and tell me these players defend like that. It's night and day.

What do you all think the Caps can get for Mike Green?

What do you all think the Caps can get for Mike Green?
- Johnny Wrath

Roster player, and a 2nd rounder