3. You will never get equal value back when trading Malkin. Name me one time a superstar (generational star in the case of Malkin) has been traded away and equal or greater value came back. Jagr-no, Seguin-no, Thorton-no, Gretzky- no, Hossa-no
- Tiogadog

Lindros - yes (Forsberg et. al)
Martin St. Louis - yes (2 1sts plus Calahan)
Iginla - yes (Nieuwendyk)
Hawerchuk - yes (Housley)

Well then you can figure out the magical way to have more available cash to play adequate bottom 6 forwards.
- sammy87

Trading Malkin is debatable, but doing it to clear cap space for bottom 6 players is not a good reason. That falls on the GM to get the right bottom 6 players.

Gunner is correct in his assessments, IMO. We need bottom six scoring. Sutter is a holy mess. Good coach, bad personnel decisions. It's all true. I don't see us going anywhere even if we make the playoffs.

Well then you can figure out the magical way to have more available cash to play adequate bottom 6 forwards.
- sammy87

I think that if we didn't have Sutter, Spaling, and Scuderi. We'd be in decent shape. They have high cap hits that need dumped for next year somehow.

I think that if we didn't have Sutter, Spaling, and Scuderi. We'd be in decent shape. They have high cap hits that need dumped for next year somehow.
- chanceb

An adequate 3C is 2-3mil, a solid bottom 6 is 2+. Sutter and Spalings cap right there.

Scuds is a huge issue, but in reality they can't move him, or they can buy him out. But thats like 3.2 right there. Dumo, Harrington, and DP are yet to prove they can be NHL regs though.

Go through the top teams salary like NYI, Nash, STL, Detroit, NYR, The money is distributed pretty evenly. Maybe because my portfolio is diversified I hate how the Pens aren't.

Trading Malkin is debatable, but doing it to clear cap space for bottom 6 players is not a good reason. That falls on the GM to get the right bottom 6 players.
- jmatchett383

No that would be dumb to move him for bottom 6 players. But he could yield 2 very good top 6 players with cash left over to move Kunitz down and find a solid 3C. There would also be a 1st involved.

Trading Malkin is debatable, but doing it to clear cap space for bottom 6 players is not a good reason. That falls on the GM to get the right bottom 6 players.
- jmatchett383

People keep saying that Crosby, Malkin, and Letang are the problem with the Pens and why we can't adequately build a competent bottom 6. I just can't understand that logic. Right now the Pens are saddled with 1 really bad contract in Scuderi and 2 overpriced players in Spaling and Sutter. Those are the reasons the Pens can't afford better bottom 6 players. That is $8.875 million that can be way better spent.

Right now the Penguins look out played against good hockey teams.

I realize injuries have been a key component in this recent downward trend...and I think with a healthy roster they will be fine...I just wonder if/when that ever will happen with this team.

I can't disagree with Ryan's assessment of Sutter...they need more from him...and whether or not he can provide more (opinions vary) remains to be seen. Now is the time to do it.

I am also a little disappointed in Bennett. I realize that having played in only 20 games it's probably not fair to make the call on him...but he needs to show more of an ability to elevate his game. He has been getting decent minutes...he needs to break thru for good...if he can.

Spaling isn't top six, but I think he is able to generate enough to be a better third line option than Sutter at this point.
He is such a disappointment. It sucks. I keep wondering who would be a good trade partner for him, I think Toronto and Florida(maybe).if Toronto can't sign Santorelli they could get Sutter and return maybe a second and Winnik? That's still probably high but they could get a decent return on Santorelli too

An adequate 3C is 2-3mil, a solid bottom 6 is 2+. Sutter and Spalings cap right there.

Scuds is a huge issue, but in reality they can't move him, or they can buy him out. But thats like 3.2 right there. Dumo, Harrington, and DP are yet to prove they can be NHL regs though.

Go through the top teams salary like NYI, Nash, STL, Detroit, NYR, The money is distributed pretty evenly. Maybe because my portfolio is diversified I hate how the Pens aren't.
- sammy87

The NYI are really the only one I would say is significantly better than the Pens. And that is because they are getting amazing value on guys like Tavares, Okposo, and Brock Nelson, so you have guys like Grabovski and Visnovsky in their "top 3". Those other teams you mentioned, the difference between the Pens top 3 and their top 3 ranges between $3.5 and $6.5 million. And the top 3 from those other teams is a decent drop off compared to Crosby, Malkin, and Letang.

Trade Malkin to Buffalo for their 1st round (assumed #1 overall) pick. Rig the lottery. Get McDavid. Hide the Evidence.

New Crosby/McDavid :p
- Guile

and what if McDavid is the next Alexandre Daigle?

State Of The Penguins-By me

This teams problems are so simple its disgusting, the problem is they are a lot harder to fix than they should be. Its leadership, but its not who you think it is; this teams Captain's leadership style is a lot like our former Captain's the same one that owns the team right now. He leads by example, his example hasn't been so great lately. Regardless that is how he leads and that's how he will lead until his career is over, and that's ok; it worked for Lemieux.

The problem is Mario had a few great very verbal leaders on his teams that helped out with the guys that respond to the ra-ra type of leadership(Billy G style). Stevens, Francis and Loney all had a lot to say in that locker room. If anyone has read anything about our first 2 Cups, there are countless stories of verbal leadership that got points across to the team, but none that I can recall were preformed by Mario (I could be wrong and if so I would love to hear the story).

This teams problem is, that our most vocal "leader"; is the guy with worst most entitled attitude in the history of this organization; Brandon F'n Sutturd. Since the moment he stepped on the ice with our team he has had an entitled attitude and a lazier than shaat work ethic. Now after watching "in the Room" all year he is far and away the most vocal leader on our team. He is corrupting the entire locker room, and slowly destroying our organization. He needs to be eliminated and it needs to happen now, he is the epitome of the "country club attitude" that our team has been so often referred. This guy is a bloody, hair and tooth filled tumor that is killing the Penguins organization from the inside out. I don't care who we get for him, if anyone; I could care less but he needs to go and he needs to go now. The guy is a total waste on the ice, even when he gets his beautiful short handed goals they normally come off a bad bounce or a fluke play; very rarely is it a result of hard work and determination.

In closing F Sutter

WWJJD

Ryan what are your thoughts on the Penguins playing sellers this year to get a pick in the draft? Its definitely an unpopular idea and i realize the time to win is now and everything, but with the deepest draft since 2003 it's painful to see us go in with just 1 pick in the top 90.

Maybe if Pouliot shows a lot of promise, shipping Martin for a mid tier d-man and a 2nd?

I dunno, probably not the wisest decision but just curious on your thoughts.
- neilsonnn18

Nope.

and what if McDavid is the next Alexandre Daigle?
- j.boyd919

Not exactly a problem there. You set the bar at my shoestrings.


Fact is, the kid is lights out. Even if he just ends up being a really good player, and not one of the greatest to play, it'll be a success. Having said that, ANYONE who wants to move Malkin is insane. You're not getting fair value for him. You can't replace him.

State Of The Penguins-By me

This teams problems are so simple its disgusting, the problem is they are a lot harder to fix than they should be. Its leadership, but its not who you think it is; this teams Captain's leadership style is a lot like our former Captain's the same one that owns the team right now. He leads by example, his example hasn't been so great lately. Regardless that is how he leads and that's he will lead until his career is over, and that's ok; it worked for Lemieux.

The problem is Mario had a few great very verbal leaders on his teams that helped out with the guys that respond to the ra-ra type of leadership(Billy G style). Stevens, Francis and Loney all had a lot to say in that locker room. If anyone has read anything about our first 2 Cups, there are countless stories of verbal leadership that got points across to the team, but none that I can recall were preformed by Mario (I could be wrong and if so I would love to hear the story).

This teams problem is, that our most vocal "leader"; is the guy with worst most entitled attitude in the history of this organization; Brandon F'n Sutturd. Since the moment he stepped on the ice with our team he has had an entitled attitude and a lazier than shaat work ethic. Now after watching "in the Room" all year he is far and away the most vocal leader on our team. He is corrupting the entire locker room, and slowly destroying our organization. He needs to be eliminated and it needs to happen now, he is the epitome of the "country club attitude" that our team has been so often referred. This guy is a bloody, hair and tooth filled tumor that is killing the Penguins organization from the inside out. I don't care who we get for him, if anyone; I could care less but he needs to go and he needs to go now. The guy is a total waste on the ice, even when he gets his beautiful short handed goals they normally come off a bad bounce or a fluke play; very rarely is it a result of hard work and determination.

In closing F Sutter

WWJJD
- nbartley9

Bravo! Bravo!

No that would be dumb to move him for bottom 6 players. But he could yield 2 very good top 6 players with cash left over to move Kunitz down and find a solid 3C. There would also be a 1st involved.
- sammy87

If you move him for good players who will fill specific roles without increasing the total cap hit, that's fine. If you free up more space in the process, even better. But moving him with the primary intent of freeing up cap space for bottom-6 players should be discouraged.

What I mean is, if you have a deal that you feel will improve the team both in the present and future, and that trade will not negatively affect your cap, then do it. However, if you have a trade where you may not be improving the team, but you might, and it saves cap space, I'd probably stay away.

The proposed Montreal deal is good in terms of total value, but for a player like Malkin, you should require massive overpayment.

I just want to come out and ask if anyone would be opposed to an attempt to discuss the Phantoms/Baby Pens in an unbiased way.

State Of The Penguins-By me

This teams problems are so simple its disgusting, the problem is they are a lot harder to fix than they should be. Its leadership, but its not who you think it is; this teams Captain's leadership style is a lot like our former Captain's the same one that owns the team right now. He leads by example, his example hasn't been so great lately. Regardless that is how he leads and that's how he will lead until his career is over, and that's ok; it worked for Lemieux.

The problem is Mario had a few great very verbal leaders on his teams that helped out with the guys that respond to the ra-ra type of leadership(Billy G style). Stevens, Francis and Loney all had a lot to say in that locker room. If anyone has read anything about our first 2 Cups, there are countless stories of verbal leadership that got points across to the team, but none that I can recall were preformed by Mario (I could be wrong and if so I would love to hear the story).

This teams problem is, that our most vocal "leader"; is the guy with worst most entitled attitude in the history of this organization; Brandon F'n Sutturd. Since the moment he stepped on the ice with our team he has had an entitled attitude and a lazier than shaat work ethic. Now after watching "in the Room" all year he is far and away the most vocal leader on our team. He is corrupting the entire locker room, and slowly destroying our organization. He needs to be eliminated and it needs to happen now, he is the epitome of the "country club attitude" that our team has been so often referred. This guy is a bloody, hair and tooth filled tumor that is killing the Penguins organization from the inside out. I don't care who we get for him, if anyone; I could care less but he needs to go and he needs to go now. The guy is a total waste on the ice, even when he gets his beautiful short handed goals they normally come off a bad bounce or a fluke play; very rarely is it a result of hard work and determination.

In closing F Sutter

WWJJD
- nbartley9

I know a simply solution: offer him to the Flyers for Vinny Lecavalier. We'll gladly take your problems away.

I know a simply solution: offer him to the Flyers for Vinny Lecavalier. We'll gladly take your problems away.
- jmatchett383

Done

Hopefully no forwards get injured on this road trip, and you can plug Comeau in shortly after.

The Pens will have about 8-9 games before the trade deadline, and it would be nice to run a handful of games with your best forwards in their best spots, and see what you have after that.

If the sudden health and strong lineup don't get the Pens out of their funk, then you have to look at some sort of substantial move.

If things start clicking again, then maybe just something minor at the deadline if that, and roll with it.

If you move him for good players who will fill specific roles without increasing the total cap hit, that's fine. If you free up more space in the process, even better. But moving him with the primary intent of freeing up cap space for bottom-6 players should be discouraged.

What I mean is, if you have a deal that you feel will improve the team both in the present and future, and that trade will not negatively affect your cap, then do it. However, if you have a trade where you may not be improving the team, but you might, and it saves cap space, I'd probably stay away.

The proposed Montreal deal is good in terms of total value, but for a player like Malkin, you should require massive overpayment.
- jmatchett383

Trading Malkin is a mistake.. Although Pacioretty/Galchenyuk/1st looks pretty solid.. I would obviously try to get another 1st or something out of them as well.

Lindros - yes (Forsberg et. al)
Martin St. Louis - yes (2 1sts plus Calahan)
Iginla - yes (Nieuwendyk)
Hawerchuk - yes (Housley)
- jmatchett383

Good Points..I am still very much anti-trade however.

Good Points..I am still very much anti-trade however.
- Tiogadog

Oh, I agree. Just saying that there are instances where the return is either even or an upgrade.

Trading Malkin is a mistake.. Although Pacioretty/Galchenyuk/1st looks pretty solid.. I would obviously try to get another 1st or something out of them as well.
- znagle

Like I said, Pacioretty/Galchenyuk/1st for Malkin is a fair trade is value, maybe even slightly more than even for the Penguins. But with a guy like Malkin, it has to be a slam-dunk win massive overpayment if you're gonna trade him.

State Of The Penguins-By me

This teams problems are so simple its disgusting, the problem is they are a lot harder to fix than they should be. Its leadership, but its not who you think it is; this teams Captain's leadership style is a lot like our former Captain's the same one that owns the team right now. He leads by example, his example hasn't been so great lately. Regardless that is how he leads and that's how he will lead until his career is over, and that's ok; it worked for Lemieux.

The problem is Mario had a few great very verbal leaders on his teams that helped out with the guys that respond to the ra-ra type of leadership(Billy G style). Stevens, Francis and Loney all had a lot to say in that locker room. If anyone has read anything about our first 2 Cups, there are countless stories of verbal leadership that got points across to the team, but none that I can recall were preformed by Mario (I could be wrong and if so I would love to hear the story).

In closing F Sutter

- nbartley9

Lemieux has been credited with selling the trap strategy to the team after apparently him and Bowman worked it out, during that Caps series in '92.

But the problem with verbal leadership, is that you only hear about those rah-rah speeches when they "work". Remember, Guerin was on the team who lost in game #7 to Montreal in 2010.