Obviously nobody in the Pens organization values stats overall when evaluating a player. The basic eye test proved Goc wasnt adding anything of value for playoff hockey.

First of all that is only one stat. Lord knows, RW has shown numerous stats that show he is above average. Now granted I do not follow all this fancy stat stuff and know what all of them means, but isn't that stat relative to shots against or something of that nature? Which I'm not saying giving up tons of shots on the PK is good, but it isn't the be all end all, certainly there are low percentage shots and high percentage shots. Is that taken into consideration? Again just asking, because I certainly do not know.
- PensFan1103

It's interesting, but looking at the stats, other ones confirm that statistically, he was the worst forward killing penalties on the team. Highest CA60 on the team per forwards, highest Goals against per 60, and highest FF60 as well.

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- pensfan024

Another win for the good guys. The highest of NHL employed people laugh at people who make charts to see how good hockey players are. Fancy stats are useless and prove nothing. I hope we go after Raffi Torres next. Goc was literally "dead alive" in Pittsburgh. They grey ghost is gone.

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- pensfan024

You don't have to be lonely at blackfarmersmeet.com.....

Final thought on this trade..

Imagine you're John Tavares. You lineup for the faceoff and see Marcel Goc across from you. Are you intimidated? No. Do you fear his physicality? No. Do you need to account for Goc in any way by looking over your shoulder, engage in some trash talk, etc..? No. JT is free to roam around and do his business. Not good from Pens perspective.

Goc was irrelevant in every way. Just a guy that can win a few faceoffs and apparently drive possession even though he didn't really do anything.

When Tavares lines up across Lapierre, there are entirely different thoughts going through his head. Not saying there is any intimidation going on. But, he needs to account for the guy.

That's the difference between Goc and Lapierre.
- 87_71_11_29

Tavares winks at Lapierre and then blows by him and scores yet another goal. If Goc was there he just blows by him and scores yet another goal. That's the difference between Goc & Lapierre

So how would the Penguins be better without Letang? Could they be saving a couple million in cap room? Yeah, the defense and powerplay would be noticeable worse.

If you can't find Letangs value to the Penguins, sit down and watch the game from last night again. Without Crosby and Malkin, Letang took over the game everytime he was on the ice.
- Ben37

Pittsburgh's pp in December was clocking in at 6.4%. KL has a single PP goal this season. He's really not that good on the PP. He certainly isn't as important as Hornqvist. The performance Letang provides at his supposed strength is probably worth Paul Martin money at best. Any of five other Pittsburgh D could do as well.

The sheltered d minutes and the lack of PP time in the playoffs amount to a miscast player earning as much as his stat pedigree and a depth defender combined. Oh, and he's injury prone.

this is a lil off subject but.....have any of you tried this dating site? blackfarmersmeet.com im not black and im not a farmer but it seems interesting enough to give it a go.

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- pensfan024

Are you the social version of Palmer? Like Youngbloods altar-egos?

But that is all superficial crap that is done by frustrated players. Do we really need that type of "toughness" and I put it in quotes, because how tough is someone who hits someone when they aren't looking, aren't expecting it, or too busy actually doing something useful like scoring? I thought that besides that crap, the Pens handled Winnipeg's size and physicality quite well last night.
- PensFan1103

I think there should be penalties for that poop, but Bettman seems to love the crap in games over showing skill.

If you watch the EN goal, Horny (love a Horny Perron ), actually braces to get hit but still score because he is a great player. A lesser player may not - possibly BB or Spaling due to them knowing they are about to get launched. PM set up Sutter? By taking a big hit his experience showed. It's all about physical intimidation unfortunately & we don't have too much.

Pittsburgh's pp in December was clocking in at 6.4%. KL has a single PP goal this season. He's really not that good on the PP. He certainly isn't as important as Hornqvist. The performance Letang provides at his supposed strength is probably worth Paul Martin money at best. Any of five other Pittsburgh D could do as well.

The sheltered d minutes and the lack of PP time in the playoffs amount to a miscast player earning as much as his stat pedigree and a depth defender combined. Oh, and he's injury prone.
- Johnny Wrath

Ohh boy, I'll get the popcorn and sit this one out

Tavares winks at Lapierre and then blows by him and scores yet another goal. If Goc was there he just blows by him and scores yet another goal. That's the difference between Goc & Lapierre
- Vukota

Don't you love it when the Islanders are winning? Brings all the heros over onto other teams boards. Now imagine the crap that they talk on their own boards if this is what there is here? yaaay Islanders.

Don't you love it when the Islanders are winning? Brings all the heros over onto other teams boards. Now imagine the crap that they talk on their own boards if this is what there is here? yaaay Islanders.
- Aussiepenguin

Lighten up I'm joking even though that's exactly what would happen It is nice to see that the pen fans on Hockey Buzz never go into other teams threads.

Pittsburgh's pp in December was clocking in at 6.4%. KL has a single PP goal this season. He's really not that good on the PP. He certainly isn't as important as Hornqvist. The performance Letang provides at his supposed strength is probably worth Paul Martin money at best. Any of five other Pittsburgh D could do as well.

The sheltered d minutes and the lack of PP time in the playoffs amount to a miscast player earning as much as his stat pedigree and a depth defender combined. Oh, and he's injury prone.
- Johnny Wrath

While I often agree with your posts, I can't agree with the Letang hate. Is he the finest PP QB ever? No. Not nearly as effective as Sarge, but good enough. In a league that is starved for this type of player he's very good. An elite skater, good passer.....yes he misses the net a little too much for my liking, but there isn't many better at the position. I believe he's 3rd in scoring and leading PPG for D. Paul Mart will never come close to being a Norris candidate.

Tavares winks at Lapierre and then blows by him and scores yet another goal. If Goc was there he just blows by him and scores yet another goal. That's the difference between Goc & Lapierre
- Vukota

Are you the social version of Palmer? Like Youngbloods altar-egos?
- Topshelf Mountain

i am palmer

Ohh boy, I'll get the popcorn and sit this one out
- znagle

Just saying. Finally all season the PP has 87, 71, and 58 and the only thing that makes it work is Hornqvist. That's anther reason Letang isn't necessary.

This is probably the main area of disagreement between RW and myself although I don't know how he feels about Letang's contract.

- Topshelf Mountain

You see Aussiepenguin its a joke and should be taken as such

Tavares winks at Lapierre and then blows by him and scores yet another goal. If Goc was there he just blows by him and scores yet another goal. That's the difference between Goc & Lapierre
- Vukota

The only thought Tavares is thinking lining up against Lapierre is what celebration he's going to do

Just saying. Finally all season the PP has 87, 71, and 58 and the only thing that makes it work is Hornqvist. That's anther reason Letang isn't necessary.

This is probably the main area of disagreement between RW and myself although I don't know how he feels about Letang's contract.
- Johnny Wrath

i dont care who you are....letang is a beast. he proved it last night and everynight he plays. hes prob our best defense men save paul martin. hes awesome at shoot outs. great offensively. what else do you want from the dude?

You see Aussiepenguin its a joke and should be taken as such
- Vukota

He's newish, he hasnt been around you long enough yet!

He does get the game though, you guys will be doing smores in the Outback in no time.

The only thought Tavares is thinking lining up against Lapierre is what celebration he's going to do
- rangerdanger94

i give this coment 2 thumbs down b*tches

He's newish, he hasnt been around you long enough yet!

He does get the game though, you guys will be doing smores in the Outback in no time.
- Topshelf Mountain

i am palmer
- pensfan024

While I often agree with your posts, I can't agree with the Letang hate. Is he the finest PP QB ever? No. Not nearly as effective as Sarge, but good enough. In a league that is starved for this type of player he's very good. An elite skater, good passer.....yes he misses the net a little too much for my liking, but there isn't many better at the position. I believe he's 3rd in scoring and leading PPG for D. Paul Mart will never come close to being a Norris candidate.
- madmike71

I don't get the hate stuff. Letang is fine. He's got outstanding hair and he's always watching video and takes his job very seriously. I just wish the Penguins would have signed him to a bridge deal or traded him, or will trade him.

Just saying. Finally all season the PP has 87, 71, and 58 and the only thing that makes it work is Hornqvist. That's anther reason Letang isn't necessary.

This is probably the main area of disagreement between RW and myself although I don't know how he feels about Letang's contract.
- Johnny Wrath

Letang is a franchise defenseman. He's signed to a good contract that will only look better in time. He will never be traded, like it or not. He will be a Norris finalist this year and years to come.