I remember a few weeks ago when anyone who mentioned sutter being traded was immediately insulted. He's bedn butt and now that all changed. Bipolar pens fans!! Flyers coming off a bad loss but the pens are as well. Always fun regardless of record when these teams play.

Strawman. No responsible analyst/blogger/whatever relies on stats alone.
- bri29smith

I know, but RW is using stats to say that Sutter is an all around better player than Sutter and the next pope. Goc has never put up good numbers his whole career no matter how he has been used. Plain and simple

He's not wrong in that eye tests are very subjective. People have this notion that 'the eye test' is a standard thing that everyone evaluates correctly. If the eye test were enough to evaluate a player, then advanced metrics wouldn't exist. They do, and they are extremely valuable in this very scenario. Is Sutter driving possession? No. Is Goc driving possession? No. How about zone starts? They're about equal with Sutter at 45% OZS and Goc at 44%. OK then, are their line mates any good? Well, Sutter plays with Malkin, Bennett, Downie, Spaling, Rust. Goc - Adams, Sill, Farnham, Rust, Arcabello, Ebbett. Notice a difference in Quality of Teammates? Sutter plays with guys that drive possession. Goc doesn't. Yet Goc's is a full percentage point better than Sutter in SAF.

At worst, Goc/Sutter is a push. Why then do the Pens pay Sutter 3.3m and Goc 1m? These are legitimate questions that should be asked.
- Stillson14

Management seems to think Goc is 4c and Sutter 3c/2winger and center. If they felt Goc was better than Sutter, then why isn't he getting a chance to prove it? It's much more than a simple "eye test" they watch film and break down everything stride by stride.

I remember a few weeks ago when anyone who mentioned sutter being traded was immediately insulted. He's bedn butt and now that all changed. Bipolar pens fans!! Flyers coming off a bad loss but the pens are as well. Always fun regardless of record when these teams play.
- dbell646

In two weeks, trade Perron!

Goc plays better on the 4th line than Sutter does on the 3rd.

/eof
- jmatchett383

Thanks for ripping me off from a page ago

Management seems to think Goc is 4c and Sutter 3c/2winger and center. If they felt Goc was better than Sutter, then why isn't he getting a chance to prove it? It's much more than a simple "eye test" they watch film and break down everything stride by stride.
- znagle

Hold up... they think Zach Sill is worthy of a spot on many nights... I don't think management is perfect.

Management seems to think Goc is 4c and Sutter 3c/2winger and center. If they felt Goc was better than Sutter, then why isn't he getting a chance to prove it? It's much more than a simple "eye test" they watch film and break down everything stride by stride.
- znagle

Why aren't anyone getting a chance to take Adams, sill, or scuderi spots?

He's not wrong in that eye tests are very subjective. People have this notion that 'the eye test' is a standard thing that everyone evaluates correctly. If the eye test were enough to evaluate a player, then advanced metrics wouldn't exist. They do, and they are extremely valuable in this very scenario. Is Sutter driving possession? No. Is Goc driving possession? No. How about zone starts? They're about equal with Sutter at 45% OZS and Goc at 44%. OK then, are their line mates any good? Well, Sutter plays with Malkin, Bennett, Downie, Spaling, Rust. Goc - Adams, Sill, Farnham, Rust, Arcabello, Ebbett. Notice a difference in Quality of Teammates? Sutter plays with guys that drive possession. Goc doesn't. Yet Goc's is a full percentage point better than Sutter in SAF.

At worst, Goc/Sutter is a push. Why then do the Pens pay Sutter 3.3m and Goc 1m? These are legitimate questions that should be asked.
- Stillson14

Spot on. And right or wrong, it's at least a legitimate conversation to have. I'm going to be mad as hell when you all run RW out of town and our new blogger writes fluff pieces like the Pens website....Todays blog: "Today is Malkin's birthday, GO PENS!"

In two weeks, trade Perron!
- znagle

I hope they sign him so I can buy his jersey

Hold up... they think Zach Sill is worthy of a spot on many nights... I don't think management is perfect.
- Guile

"management keeps playing Adams so its proof that I'm right and Adams is great"

Why aren't anyone getting a chance to take Adams, sill, or scuderi spots?
- dbell646

Scuds I think is his cost... just cannot bench that much money and I think its that simple sadly.

Sill has been being bumped up and down, and for tonight he is down with Farnham up.

Adams seems to just be untouchable roster spot wise. Whatever, last season with him, hes playing better than last year, I'm just letting the fight with him go.

I hope they sign him so I can buy his jersey
- dbell646

For sure.

I can't wait until Perron is back on the left side and Horny on the right.

"management keeps playing Adams so its proof that I'm right and Adams is great"
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I'd play Adams over Sill anyday of the week... but I'd have Rust, Farnham, and my grandmother also over Sill any day of the week.

I take Tanger over McD 100 times out of 100 times.
- nbartley9

I'll take Klein as my 5th defenseman over uh scuderi? Or is scuderi your 4th defenseman?

Why aren't anyone getting a chance to take Adams, sill, or scuderi spots?
- dbell646

Due to injuries, they should most likely be gone when healthy. Also salary cap wizardry keeping Sill or Adams up, they have like 234234 salary cap wizards there to squeeze the most they possibly can. Scuderi hasn't been all too bad this year minus last game..

"management keeps playing Adams so its proof that I'm right and Adams is great"
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Never said that.

Scuds I think is his cost... just cannot bench that much money and I think its that simple sadly.

Sill has been being bumped up and down, and for tonight he is down with Farnham up.

Adams seems to just be untouchable roster spot wise. Whatever, last season with him, hes playing better than last year, I'm just letting the fight with him go.
- Guile

Cost could be the difference between sutter and goc. I don't really have a horse in that fight though. I don't particularly care too much about either

I'd play Adams over Sill anyday of the week... but I'd have Rust, Farnham, and my grandmother also over Sill any day of the week.
- Guile

Agree on this. Once the injury bug is up hopefully they will be bounced.

Scuds I think is his cost... just cannot bench that much money and I think its that simple sadly.

Sill has been being bumped up and down, and for tonight he is down with Farnham up.

Adams seems to just be untouchable roster spot wise. Whatever, last season with him, hes playing better than last year, I'm just letting the fight with him go.
- Guile

My guess is that it is hard to justify putting in a younger guy with limited NHL experience in Adam's spot when this player has no pedigree. Our farm system for forwards is still poop. A really raw 3rd round pick in Rust or a guy like Megna is the best we can do?

At least on defense, you can be more willing to give Pouliot/Harrington ice time and play through their mistakes.

Due to injuries, they should most likely be gone when healthy. Also salary cap wizardry keeping Sill or Adams up, they have like 234234 salary cap wizards there to squeeze the most they possibly can. Scuderi hasn't been all too bad this year minus last game..
- znagle

There are better options then scuds imo. I don't think he's terrible but I think there are upgrades. I don't care who they play where as long as they start winning

Never said that.
- znagle

Not directed at you haha...just one of those classic comebacks...

I know, but RW is using stats to say that Sutter is an all around better player than Sutter and the next pope. Goc has never put up good numbers his whole career no matter how he has been used. Plain and simple
- znagle

Aside from Brandon Sutter's lone 40 point season with the Canes, Goc and Sutter's numbers are very similar. They both hover around 20-30 points a season.

I'll take Klein as my 5th defenseman over uh scuderi? Or is scuderi your 4th defenseman?
- RAGSareDANGERus

nobody cares about your underwear model Calvin Klein. I'd take the Pens (healthy) top 4 over the Rangers any day of the week and twice on sunday...

nobody cares about your underwear model Calvin Klein. I'd take the Pens (healthy) top 4 over the Rangers any day of the week and twice on sunday...
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I doubt many others would. Unless they're penguins fans.

There are better options then scuds imo. I don't think he's terrible but I think there are upgrades. I don't care who they play where as long as they start winning
- dbell646

The problem is Scuderi has been a decent 3d that was brought in to be a top pairing Dman with Letang. That's why he makes 3 million. It didn't work out obviously, but he has been a great mentor to the young guys and has played decent hockey while doing it. There aren't better options out there, we have nothing to trade for another Dman and our rookies aren't ready. They will be sooner than later though, hopefully this year.