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Forums :: Blog World :: Ryan Wilson: Marcel Goc Is Better Than Your Eye Test
Author Message
bri29smith
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Monongahela, PA
Joined: 08.20.2009

Jan 20 @ 9:38 AM ET
I think he is a great blogger here, not many teams get a good blog a day. RW uses strictly advanced stats over any actual eye tests.
- znagle

Do you honestly think that's true? That's so asinine.
87_71_11_29
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: In a van down by the river, PA
Joined: 01.18.2007

Jan 20 @ 9:39 AM ET
Came for charts, circles, graphs. Was not disappointed.

Who cares if a player looks like total poop every shift? The chart and circles say he's sick.

- RAGSareDANGERus

Welcome to our blog...

nbartley9
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 01.31.2012

Jan 20 @ 9:42 AM ET
Why is it unimpressive? It's a better way to evaluate things. It gives you insight into what you think you are seeing (which is probably wrong most of the time, as he points out). I just find it funny that you guys complain so much about his blogs, yet your traffic gets him paid.
- bri29smith

Do you know what corsi and fenwick are?

Also i just stated that RW's hockey assessment is fantastic, its the advanced stats that do nothing for me. What else do you want from me? You saw his Twitter picture didn't you, you have a blogger crush, its ok; who hasn't?


You know who used to attempt a lot of shots and always got lack luster wrist shots on net that were easily stopped and sent the puck the other way? Joe Melichar....

Yeah


F The Flyers
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Jan 20 @ 9:47 AM ET
Do you know what corsi and fenwick are?

Also i just stated that RW's hockey assessment is fantastic, its the advanced stats that do nothing for me. What else do you want from me? You saw his Twitter picture didn't you, you have a blogger crush, its ok; who hasn't?


You know who used to attempt a lot of shots and always got lack luster wrist shots on net that were easily stopped and sent the puck the other way? Joe Melichar....

Yeah


F The Flyers

- nbartley9


My only real problem with "advanced stats" are that they are all offensive-driven numbers and do not dig in to things like defensive positioning, shot blocking, and shot selection. If you allow the other team to take 35 shots, but they're mostly unscreened shots from the perimeter, and you take 17 shots from good scoring areas, you're a bad team.
znagle
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: OH
Joined: 10.02.2014

Jan 20 @ 9:48 AM ET
Do you honestly think that's true? That's so asinine.
- bri29smith


Mainly. There is much more that factors into these advanced stats that skews numbers. A players skate blade falls off, corsi -5. A player hit with a slapshot and can't skate fenwick +12. A defender in his own zone has his stick broken, then another player get poop with a slapper and is hurt! Corsi +72 for offensive team.

As you can see, players numbers are skewed for the better or worse. There are too many moving parts for these #s to mean much. Like someone mentioned before, Yandle's advanced stats are better than Webber's so Yandle is better. The NFL doesn't have these.
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Jan 20 @ 9:50 AM ET
Watch the games and toss the friggin power point shiit..
the_cause2000
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Not quite my tempo
Joined: 02.26.2007

Jan 20 @ 9:50 AM ET

Marcel Goc Is Better Than Your Eye Test

- Ryan_Wilson

Gocoma
bri29smith
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Monongahela, PA
Joined: 08.20.2009

Jan 20 @ 9:51 AM ET
Do you know what corsi and fenwick are?

Also i just stated that RW's hockey assessment is fantastic, its the advanced stats that do nothing for me. What else do you want from me? You saw his Twitter picture didn't you, you have a blogger crush, its ok; who hasn't?


You know who used to attempt a lot of shots and always got lack luster wrist shots on net that were easily stopped and sent the puck the other way? Joe Melichar....

Yeah


F The Flyers

- nbartley9

Yes, I know what they are, and I'm betting you and most here do not. It's easy to bash what you are too stupid to understand. I know the charts and graphs probably just look like pretty pictures to you, but they tell a story that explain what you think you see.

I usually try to avoid getting sucked into this circus of fans who have no clue what they are talking about. Congrats on getting me down to your level.
all-pgh
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: PA
Joined: 05.14.2014

Jan 20 @ 9:52 AM ET
Gocoma
- the_cause2000

bravo
nbartley9
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 01.31.2012

Jan 20 @ 9:53 AM ET
Yes, I know what they are, and I'm betting you and most here do not. It's easy to bash what you are too stupid to understand. I know the charts and graphs probably just look like pretty pictures to you, but they tell a story that explain what you think you see.

I usually try to avoid getting sucked into this circus of fans who have no clue what they are talking about. Congrats on getting me down to your level.

- bri29smith

Come on its Flyers day, you don't want to fight with me; its not worth it.

You also realize my comment about Big Bad Joe Melichar was a direct example of what Corsi and Fenwick are right?


F The Flyers
bri29smith
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Monongahela, PA
Joined: 08.20.2009

Jan 20 @ 9:53 AM ET
Mainly. There is much more that factors into these advanced stats that skews numbers. A players skate blade falls off, corsi -5. A player hit with a slapshot and can't skate fenwick +12. A defender in his own zone has his stick broken, then another player get poop with a slapper and is hurt! Corsi +72 for offensive team.

As you can see, players numbers are skewed for the better or worse. There are too many moving parts for these #s to mean much. Like someone mentioned before, Yandle's advanced stats are better than Webber's so Yandle is better. The NFL doesn't have these.

- znagle

You're talking about isolated incidents. What most of you don't understand about statistics is that over time they smooth out and show the true trend. It's about probability, not certainty, and it adds to what you see. Maybe some of you can take an intro to stats class when you reach college.
madmike71
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 12.21.2006

Jan 20 @ 9:54 AM ET
But its the same stupid motto... bring up a guy who will fight amd can't skate vs philly... how bout trying to out play them and out score them before trying to out kill them... it's stupid... sometimes I wish the pens played in the west...

Rather have fast paced tight scoring games then goons on ice

- nh4442


At one point I think he had drawn 5 penalties in 7 games. Too bad the Pens PP was crap and failed capitalize on any of them.

Look, I don't want him on the team long term, but like I said before, If my choices are Zac Sill or Bobby Farnham it's no contest. At least I can tell the guy has a pulse.
cap1681
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Verona, PA
Joined: 02.04.2010

Jan 20 @ 9:55 AM ET
I didn't even have to read the article to know that this was not just a Goc fluff piece, but a Sutter defamation commentary.
bri29smith
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Monongahela, PA
Joined: 08.20.2009

Jan 20 @ 9:55 AM ET
Come on its Flyers day, you don't want to fight with me; its not worth it.

You also realize my comment about Big Bad Joe Melichar was a direct example of what Corsi and Fenwick are right?


F The Flyers

- nbartley9

Again, you pick an isolated player/incident. It's about probability, they aren't meant to be 100% predictive
BulliesPhan87
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the lone wolf of hockeybuzz
Joined: 07.31.2009

Jan 20 @ 9:56 AM ET
yeah, yeah, yinz suck, whatever

can I go home now?
nbartley9
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 01.31.2012

Jan 20 @ 9:57 AM ET
But its the same stupid motto... bring up a guy who will fight amd can't skate vs philly... how bout trying to out play them and out score them before trying to out kill them... it's stupid... sometimes I wish the pens played in the west...

Rather have fast paced tight scoring games then goons on ice

- nh4442

No way!! I want goon fest 2015 tonight.


F The Flyers
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Jan 20 @ 9:58 AM ET
No way!! I want goon fest 2015 tonight.


F The Flyers

- nbartley9



The Pens have a goon ?
nbartley9
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 01.31.2012

Jan 20 @ 9:59 AM ET
Again, you pick an isolated player/incident. It's about probability, they aren't meant to be 100% predictive
- bri29smith

I love the defensive aspect of hockey, my second favorite team is the Preds; I cant get on bored with a offensively based way of solely judging a player. Ask Rockin Ronny Francis, about defensive hockey; it was a beautiful thing to watch.
BulliesPhan87
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the lone wolf of hockeybuzz
Joined: 07.31.2009

Jan 20 @ 10:00 AM ET
No way!! I want goon fest 2015 tonight.


F The Flyers

- nbartley9

might want to tune into another game then, the Flyers have been soft as pudding this year.
nbartley9
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 01.31.2012

Jan 20 @ 10:00 AM ET
The Pens have a goon ?
- bixll

Its all in mindset, hell even Sutturd could make me proud with a nice elbow to the face of an unsuspecting Flyer.


F The Flyers
znagle
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: OH
Joined: 10.02.2014

Jan 20 @ 10:03 AM ET
You're talking about isolated incidents. What most of you don't understand about statistics is that over time they smooth out and show the true trend. It's about probability, not certainty, and it adds to what you see. Maybe some of you can take an intro to stats class when you reach college.
- bri29smith


Bad pinch, broken stick, bad ice, too long of a shift, played 3 games in 4 nights, team mate when for a bad line change, team mate got dangled, puck hopped over the stick. There are so many things that happen every game in hockey that skew these numbers. You can't say depend solely on advanced stats. Yes they are nice, but yous till have to rely on the eyes and game films.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Jan 20 @ 10:03 AM ET
Its all in mindset, hell even Sutturd could make me proud with a nice elbow to the face of an unsuspecting Flyer.


F The Flyers

- nbartley9


Gotta hate those bloodthirsty no-good Flyers fans. Bunch of clowns who love goon hockey.
znagle
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: OH
Joined: 10.02.2014

Jan 20 @ 10:04 AM ET
I didn't even have to read the article to know that this was not just a Goc fluff piece, but a Sutter defamation commentary.
- cap1681


Right you are! Congrats your corsi just raised 8 points
nbartley9
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 01.31.2012

Jan 20 @ 10:07 AM ET
Gotta hate those bloodthirsty no-good Flyers fans. Bunch of clowns who love goon hockey.
- jmatchett383

You wont ever hear me complaining about that, ever hear about those awful violence loving hockey fans that everyone hates, im the worst.

F The Flyers
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Jan 20 @ 10:07 AM ET
Its all in mindset, hell even Sutturd could make me proud with a nice elbow to the face of an unsuspecting Flyer.


F The Flyers

- nbartley9



Ahhh, so it is hatred... Got cha.
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