I don't know what you mean...

Analytics deal in numbers representative of performance. Coaches are there mostly to implement a system and then just manage the players as people.

He gets the best of both worlds because he can evaluate his players in person and via the numbers and adjust his systems and player usage based on that.

The numbers say, unequivocally, what is happening on the ice.

You can then use them how you see fit and evaluate players from there.

But to ignore them entirely is just stupid.
- BINGO!

Pretty much.

Now I want burgers, and haven't had one for a long time, but happened to take hamburg out of the freezer last night. But it's -18 outside.. (frank) it..I'm Canadian. Burgers it is. My family will love me.
- Woderwick

you ever try broiling them? not the same as BBQ but if you use some sort of drip tray its really not too bad.. like giant meatballs

speaking of which.. when you bake/broil.. flatten them out.. or... you end up with giant meatballs

If I found a group of people who LOVE plus/minus. And they all agree that one player is better than the other because of their plus/minus, would that be smart? No.

I don't think Corsi is reliable. So them all agreeing on on who is better than who based off ONE flawed stat is ridiculous to me.
- dionschenn

Very very few of them base their evaluations solely off of corsi.

Hell I have no idea what Bozak's corsi numbers look like and can tell you he isn't very good.

People here were upset when freaking Jay McClement left the Leafs. Jay McClement is (frank)ing garbage.

I don't know what you mean...

Analytics deal in numbers representative of performance. Coaches are there mostly to implement a system and then just manage the players as people.

He gets the best of both worlds because he can evaluate his players in person and via the numbers and adjust his systems and player usage based on that.

The numbers say, unequivocally, what is happening on the ice.

You can then use them how you see fit and evaluate players from there.

But to ignore them entirely is just stupid.
- BINGO!

I don't think they should be ignored completely. They have to understood in context, like plus/minus. That is why I have an issue with all these analytic people having the same opinion on players solely because of their corsi numbers. Apparently I'm not allowed to think Gardiner is bad because his Corsi numbers are good this year. They refuse to accept his goals, assists, plus/minus, etc but most importantly WHAT THEY SEE WITH THEIR EYES.

You're missing the point. So we should just construct a team based on the guy's who have the best Corsi in the league?
- dionschenn

It's the beginning of what is becoming an exact science. It's not perfect but it's a work in progress and eventually, it will be even more accurate than it already is. In a lot of cases, the teams with the best Corsi and all that stuff, is usually not only making the playoffs or going deep into the playoffs but winning the Cup.

There are stats that prove the stats are true.

It's really not all that complicated. Mike Babcock himself is the guy who believes the faster you get out of your own zone and spend more time in the offensive zone, the better off you will be. That's most of the advanced stats in a nutshell coming from a guy everybody wants to be their coach.

I wish...too many people take offence to haphazard typing on here. If I can understand what someone is trying to convey, I could care less. See Dozzer going to be now and making burgers at 8am.
- Woderwick

Not me. I was just messing around.

Corsi is more reliable than other stats because it shows how the player performs in order to get the puck into scoring chances. Yeah it's flawed, but comparing it to +/- is silly.
- Viktory

Comparing Corsi to science is even sillier.

we need to buck this down to the wood, change the core. We've done everything else but... will fans be able to take it? Yes they will, we've been taking it for 5 decades, what's one more.
- shmenge

I don't think they should be ignored completely. They have to understood in context, like plus/minus. That is why I have an issue with all these analytic people having the same opinion on players solely because of their corsi numbers. Apparently I'm not allowed to think Gardiner is bad because his Corsi numbers are good this year. They refuse to accept his goals, assists, plus/minus, etc but most importantly WHAT THEY SEE WITH THEIR EYES.
- dionschenn

I can show you some magicians that will make you believe that what you are seeing with your eyes is a card disappearing but it doesn't mean that card actually disappeared.

you ever try broiling them? not the same as BBQ but if you use some sort of drip tray its really not too bad.. like giant meatballs

speaking of which.. when you bake/broil.. flatten them out.. or... you end up with giant meatballs
- Dozzer

WTF? If you don't flatten them out, they are a meatball. LOL

Okay, So we know that the core is problem. That's mainly the top 6 and top 4 plus your goalie. Assuming Clarkson can't be traded. Who do we keep? Who do we try and trade? and for what?

I say Bozak/Kessel/Lupul are traded.

I say JVR/Kadri/Clarkson stay.

I say Phaneuf/Gardiner get traded.

I say Reilly/Franson stay.

Reimer gets traded

Bernier stays.

Tank is on!

It's the beginning of what is becoming an exact science. It's not perfect but it's a work in progress and eventually, it will be even more accurate than it already is. In a lot of cases, the teams with the best Corsi and all that stuff, is usually not only making the playoffs or going deep into the playoffs but winning the Cup.

There are stats that prove the stats are true.

It's really not all that complicated. Mike Babcock himself is the guy who believes the faster you get out of your own zone and spend more time in the offensive zone, the better off you will be. That's most of the advanced stats in a nutshell coming from a guy everybody wants to be their coach.
- JohnFergusonJr

People have wanted possession, scoring chances, zone time, etc since the beginning of time. Corsi is nothing new in that regard. It's the individual skater Corsi stats that in my opinion can be quite flawed.

I don't know what you mean...

Analytics deal in numbers representative of performance. Coaches are there mostly to implement a system and then just manage the players as people.

He gets the best of both worlds because he can evaluate his players in person and via the numbers and adjust his systems and player usage based on that.

The numbers say, unequivocally, what is happening on the ice.

You can then use them how you see fit and evaluate players from there.

But to ignore them entirely is just stupid.
- BINGO!

change the GM, change the coach, bring in more 3rd and 4th liners, sign some useless ufas, buyouts and hire an analytics dept. All to finish in the bottom of the league. I'm not ignoring anything, just seen enough of stupid

I can show you some magicians that will make you believe that what you are seeing with your eyes is a card disappearing but it doesn't mean that card actually disappeared.
- JohnFergusonJr

So why watch the games? It's all a trick I guess.

you ever try broiling them? not the same as BBQ but if you use some sort of drip tray its really not too bad.. like giant meatballs

speaking of which.. when you bake/broil.. flatten them out.. or... you end up with giant meatballs
- Dozzer

No I haven't, but our oven died on the weekend.

we need to buck this down to the wood, change the core. We've done everything else but... will fans be able to take it? Yes they will, we've been taking it for 5 decades, what's one more.
- shmenge

they need to implement a system designed for the core they have now, no?
not this crap defensive system Carlyle was preaching, he should have known he didn't have those type of players

WTF? If you don't flatten them out, they are a meatball. LOL
- Elbows15

no no.. you really have to flatten them out.. you cant form them as you would for a grill.. cause they swell and round out

its not like it would stop me from eating them but still lol

Well, May I ask a favor?

Please tell the Leafs to play as bad against Columbus as they did against Washington, or even worse. We need the two points desperately, especially since you all think they will fold and not make the playoffs! Don't waste the opportunity to tank and get a high draft pick!

Okay, So we know that the core is problem. That's mainly the top 6 and top 4 plus your goalie. Assuming Clarkson can't be traded. Who do we keep? Who do we try and trade? and for what?

I say Bozak/Kessel/Lupul are traded.

I say JVR/Kadri/Clarkson stay.

I say Phaneuf/Gardiner get traded.

I say Reilly/Franson stay.

Reimer gets traded

Bernier stays.

Tank is on!
- steve362

trade Phaneuf and Franson - keep Gardiner (more upside and way too young and maligned, see Larry Murphy)
the rest I agree with

No I haven't, but our oven died on the weekend.
- Woderwick

oh poopty.. what went? the element?

the fuse? lol

Not me. I was just messing around.
- Elbows15

Oh...I know, no one in particular, and not a big deal either way.

It's the beginning of what is becoming an exact science. It's not perfect but it's a work in progress and eventually, it will be even more accurate than it already is. In a lot of cases, the teams with the best Corsi and all that stuff, is usually not only making the playoffs or going deep into the playoffs but winning the Cup.

There are stats that prove the stats are true.

It's really not all that complicated. Mike Babcock himself is the guy who believes the faster you get out of your own zone and spend more time in the offensive zone, the better off you will be. That's most of the advanced stats in a nutshell coming from a guy everybody wants to be their coach.
- JohnFergusonJr

He does, you mean he doesn't think you should stop and take your time?... Obviously, and no he didn;t need stats to see that, or I hope not for the sake of humanity...

Okay, So we know that the core is problem. That's mainly the top 6 and top 4 plus your goalie. Assuming Clarkson can't be traded. Who do we keep? Who do we try and trade? and for what?

I say Bozak/Kessel/Lupul are traded.

I say JVR/Kadri/Clarkson stay.

I say Phaneuf/Gardiner get traded.

I say Reilly/Franson stay.

Reimer gets traded

Bernier stays.

Tank is on!
- steve362

I dont think clarkson is going anywhere either way but he has been better this season than last year neverless

trade Phaneuf and Franson - keep Gardiner (more upside and way too young and maligned, see Larry Murphy)
the rest I agree with
- shmenge

Two too many laughing emoticons there...