For Burn...but i'm sure this is all made up. I mean, you asked "what proof do we have of kessel being a bad leader / not the guy you build around?" Besides boston trading him without blinking to keep lesser 'studs' in krejci, bergeron etc...

(David Poile defended kessel..no coincidence nashville has long been rumoured his landing place including just missing out on landing him before burke did...)

consider the circumstantial evidence around Kessel that suggests he's not the kind of player you build around or win with - despite the talent:

- There were the comments of Leaf assistant Steve Spott, who told a group of minor hockey coaches last summer that Kessel refused to buy into things the coaches were preaching and that he hated Carlyle, who believed management wouldn't adequately deal with him.

- There was MLSE president Tim Leiweke saying his team had players with excellent stats but, "just terrible character." Whomever could he be speaking of?

- There was former Maple Leaf executive Bill Watters recently relaying a story about Kessel refusing to consider playing on left wing when approached this season by both the coaching staff and team president Brendan Shanahan.

- And there were insightful comments of former Leaf head coach Ron Wilson on Tuesday who described Kessel as a moody, hard-to-reach talent who is as capable of sinking his team with his whims as he is of elevating it.

but i'm sure there's no fire to this smoke.The core is just fine (just to use a Burn technique i threw in an emoticon)

and this is just in the last 2 days....
- clark_griswold

I don't beleive the Watter switch wing story for a second. Anyone who hears it, know the history and still beleives it it is an utter moron.

Wislon also went on the Fan yesterday (Was on TSN on Tues) and said Kessel isn't the problem, the problem is that there isn't enough help. He can't do it all himself.


David Poile spoke highly of him, what would he know.


Still waiting for you to post the quotes from the ducks coach that you were talking about that said that Gardiner is uncoachable (How would they know as they never once coached him in any fashion).

Also, the whole Leiwike thing, you're assuming..... I thought it was well know that he was believed to talking about the soccer player Dafoe. Right before he said that it came out that he wanted to go home, and then Tim comes out with that.

Rarely do the Leafs ever out shoot their opponents. Losing 6 -2 when you do is just typical. An 800 save % will not win you many games, specially on 26 shots... Piss poor start with the new coach.

a repost from earlier, but i would love some feedback on this....



i think it's going to be a long painful rebuild. Here's my ridiculous rebuild plan. And yes the goal is to hit bottom so returns aren't going to be great. Sorry but the contracts can't be argued with. This won't happen overnight but here are some fits i could see:

Phaneuf to Anaheim for a 1st. Or get creative and we eat some salary for more picks. Theyr'e built to win now and their picks are low. Potentially something like 2 1st (low 1sts again) for us eating 2 mil on his deal.

Lupul to colorado for a 2nd. Their pick is high but with their young team, they can take him and they need help on the wings. i think he does well there. They are looking like they may be back in the playoff hunt this year. On a serious roll with a young core that could use Lupul for the next few years.

Clarkson you will have to keep. No one is taking that.

Robidas (see above for clarkson). Or buy out. Possibly tradeable in last year of his deal. He will be 42 at that time hence only a possibly even in his last year.

Bozak to dallas (they seem to like spezza on the wing and could use a 2nd line centre). I could see a 2nd and a 3rd/4th coming back.

JVR i would keep. Unless i got a great deal for him. His contract is great. That may be what gets us something great for him though....

Kessel to Nashville for a 1st, Roman Josi and a prospect. I'd like Colin wilson from them as well as an alternate piece for Josi.

Gardiner to a young team for a young defensive defenseman. This is a broad move so don't have to get specific.

I'd keep komarov even though i wasn't thrilled about his signing. Good work ethic to demonstrate to the new blood.

Franson should fetch a 2nd...possibly a low 1st at the deadline. I'd have no problem keeping franson as i like his size, right shot to be honest. However, he will be paid and paid big so i move him.

Everyone else i keep. Kadri (see i don't hate him that much), bernier, Rielly, JVR.

It's not sexy but that's the reality. We need to rebuild, and tanking doesn't guarantee success. But this core is guaranteed not to win so logic would suggest trying to fix it ASAP.
- clark_griswold

For Dion, I personally think that we can get more, but it depends. He's a tough one t ojudge out there.

Lupul ~~ Perron, who got a first and a player. Lupul's contract isn't as good, so we'd get a bit less, but just a 2nd is undervaluing him. Hell, Douglas Murray got two 2nds...

Clarkson I agree. Unless we can agree Philly to move him for Vinny (better player, shorter contract).

Robidas I assume ages like the rest of us, so I don't see how a 37 year-old will be 42 at the end of another 2 years?

Bozie to Dallas doesn't work IMO. They have Benn, Seguin, Spezza and Eakon all listed as C on their top 2 lines. No way they want him. Edmonton MIGHT bite, maybe Nashville (lots of C on expiring deals).

I potentially like the Kessel deal. Josi is a beast and signed to a VERY good contract going forward. It would depend on who the prospect is.

Franson you try and keep if you move Dion. See if there's any way you can get him for 5-5.5m (if not, move him). See my comment regarding Doug Murray for Franson's value.

Just my $0.02

Rarely do the Leafs ever out shoot their opponents. Losing 6 -2 when you do is just typical. An 800 save % will not win you many games, specially on 26 shots... Piss poor start with the new coach.
- bixll

Yup. Amazingly they didn;t look awful out there, but one EN goal, a couple of deflections and Bernier playing possibly the worst game of his season... this (other teams playing better but having a stinker in goal with a couple of lucky bounces) is how we usually win!

I don't beleive the Watter switch wing story for a second. Anyone who hears it, know the history and still beleives it it is an utter moron.

Wislon also went on the Fan yesterday (Was on TSN on Tues) and said Kessel isn't the problem, the problem is that there isn't enough help. He can't do it all himself.


David Poile spoke highly of him, what would he know.


Still waiting for you to post the quotes from the ducks coach that you were talking about that said that Gardiner is uncoachable (How would they know as they never once coached him in any fashion).

Also, the whole Leiwike thing, you're assuming..... I thought it was well know that he was believed to talking about the soccer player Dafoe. Right before he said that it came out that he wanted to go home, and then Tim comes out with that.
- burn

Let me get this right....

When Wilson says Kessel isn't reliable, he's a bitter old man who couldn't win with the Leafs. But when he defends Kessel, he's 100% right about his assessment?

You guys are pretty funny, I have to say.

Man oh man that OV is great defensively. I mean...he's +10 against the toughest opposition!

Man oh man that OV is great defensively. I mean...he's +10 against the toughest opposition!
- AdamFrench

Let me get this right....

When Wilson says Kessel isn't reliable, he's a bitter old man who couldn't win with the Leafs. But when he defends Kessel, he's 100% right about his assessment?

You guys are pretty funny, I have to say.
- Pecafan Fan

Yep - one of the reasons this thread attracts so many trolls.

mornin'

mornin'
- Dozzer

Greatest creep ever.

For Dion, I personally think that we can get more, but it depends. He's a tough one t ojudge out there.

Lupul ~~ Perron, who got a first and a player. Lupul's contract isn't as good, so we'd get a bit less, but just a 2nd is undervaluing him. Hell, Douglas Murray got two 2nds...

Clarkson I agree. Unless we can agree Philly to move him for Vinny (better player, shorter contract).

Robidas I assume ages like the rest of us, so I don't see how a 37 year-old will be 42 at the end of another 2 years?

Bozie to Dallas doesn't work IMO. They have Benn, Seguin, Spezza and Eakon all listed as C on their top 2 lines. No way they want him. Edmonton MIGHT bite, maybe Nashville (lots of C on expiring deals).

I potentially like the Kessel deal. Josi is a beast and signed to a VERY good contract going forward. It would depend on who the prospect is.

Franson you try and keep if you move Dion. See if there's any way you can get him for 5-5.5m (if not, move him). See my comment regarding Doug Murray for Franson's value.

Just my $0.02
- lumlums

Honestly, I think I'm the closest to the tank-wagon I've ever been. I like the high-end talent on this team, but it just seems like the timing was off. Kessel is 27, in his prime. JVR is 24? Entering his prime. This team doesn't look like it can be built to a championship calibre quick enough to capitalize on some of the core.

Perhaps blowing it up and insulating Rielly, Nylander, Kadri and whoever else we can acquire going forward with legitimate role models is the best way to go.

mornin'
- Dozzer

Such a creep

- Pecafan Fan

Patrice Bergeron only +7, obviously the Selke has been hanned out in error.

Patrice Bergeron only +7, obviously the Selke has been hanned out in error.
- AdamFrench

The Bruins are a mess.

I don't beleive the Watter switch wing story for a second. Anyone who hears it, know the history and still beleives it it is an utter moron.

Wislon also went on the Fan yesterday (Was on TSN on Tues) and said Kessel isn't the problem, the problem is that there isn't enough help. He can't do it all himself.


David Poile spoke highly of him, what would he know.


Still waiting for you to post the quotes from the ducks coach that you were talking about that said that Gardiner is uncoachable (How would they know as they never once coached him in any fashion).

Also, the whole Leiwike thing, you're assuming..... I thought it was well know that he was believed to talking about the soccer player Dafoe. Right before he said that it came out that he wanted to go home, and then Tim comes out with that.
- burn

Wasnt clark who said the gardiner quote..must have been some one else.

I guess you will never believe anything negative about fat phil.

Patrice Bergeron only +7, obviously the Selke has been hanned out in error.
- AdamFrench

Trade him for picks

Honestly, I think I'm the closest to the tank-wagon I've ever been. I like the high-end talent on this team, but it just seems like the timing was off. Kessel is 27, in his prime. JVR is 24? Entering his prime. This team doesn't look like it can be built to a championship calibre quick enough to capitalize on some of the core.

Perhaps blowing it up and insulating Rielly, Nylander, Kadri and whoever else we can acquire going forward with legitimate role models is the best way to go.
- BetterCallSaul

JVR turning 26 in a few months.

Wasnt clark who said the gardiner quote..must have been some one else.

I guess you will never believe anything negative about fat phil.
- clark_griswold

He's not fat anymore, we all seen the Christmas photo

JVR turning 26 in a few months.
- AdamFrench

You'd think he's younger than that.




With all the acne.

Let me get this right....

When Wilson says Kessel isn't reliable, he's a bitter old man who couldn't win with the Leafs. But when he defends Kessel, he's 100% right about his assessment?

You guys are pretty funny, I have to say.
- Pecafan Fan

The fact that he says both conflicting statements within 24 hours of each other is confusing; this is the Leafs however, nothing makes sense.

To be honest, if folks start letting what people say out of the radio/TV dictate the quality of their day, they're in for a real (frank)ing stinker...

The Bruins are a mess.




- Pecafan Fan

Boy are they. Marchand and Lucic (frank)ing suck Egomaniac douches bought into their own hype

Let me get this right....

When Wilson says Kessel isn't reliable, he's a bitter old man who couldn't win with the Leafs. But when he defends Kessel, he's 100% right about his assessment?

You guys are pretty funny, I have to say.
- Pecafan Fan

Or visa versa

The fact that he says both conflicting statements within 24 hours of each other is confusing; this is the Leafs however, nothing makes sense.

To be honest, if folks start letting what people say out of the radio/TV dictate the quality of their day, they're in for a real (frank)ing stinker...
- lumlums

You're not a real doctor

You'd think he's younger than that.




With all the acne.
- Pecafan Fan

Wow (frank)ing judgmental

Or visa versa
- walshyleafsfan

You know I don't speak spanish