I'm not convinced tanking is the answer. That won't solve this teams apparently inability to draft and develop like the elite organizations in this league. They won't win anything until they fix that anyway. Tanking won't help that, they'd fail to build around whatever high picks they got without changing how they draft & develop. They could use some work when it comes to pro talent scouting and cap management too. Clarkson for $5M? Get real.

Check out the link I posted, Polak, and Winnik are speaking up about lazy guys on the Leafs, I really liked watching Clarkson float back on the 2 on 1 last night, just couldn't give a poop...
- aminnes

maybe some of them really want to get the (frank) out of there, like Kessel...

Youve been so stubborn on this. Id rather you just keep your stance on dion. Seriously. Youve been such an apologist id really respect you more if you just kept your stance
- Lee Denault

Someone in here opined that Dion doesn't throw the big hit anymore b/c he doesn't want to have to fight in response. At the time, I thought, "naaaw". But it does make sense. He really does not want to drop the mitts anymore. And there is literally NO help for him in that dept.

I'm not convinced tanking is the answer. That won't solve this teams apparently inability to draft and develop like the elite organizations in this league. They won't win anything until they fix that anyway. Tanking won't help that, they'd fail to build around whatever high picks they got without changing how they draft & develop. They could use some work when it comes to pro talent scouting and cap management too. Clarkson for $5M? Get real.
- daeth

Than theyre (frank)ed . No point in cheering

I'm not convinced tanking is the answer. That won't solve this teams apparently inability to draft and develop like the elite organizations in this league. They won't win anything until they fix that anyway. Tanking won't help that, they'd fail to build around whatever high picks they got without changing how they draft & develop. They could use some work when it comes to pro talent scouting and cap management too. Clarkson for $5M? Get real.
- daeth

Not sure it has to be a total tank... Trading Dion for a pick and defensive d man isn't going to make the Leafs fall to last, not would trading Lupul, he's injured often anyway... They can make moves and still compete, I'd wager just ridding themselves of these lazy players alone would actually make them harder to play against, don't have to have big names to work hard...

Than theyre (frank)ed . No point in cheering
- Lee Denault

With how this team operates right now do you honestly think a couple high picks are going to do anything? They'll just be another Edmonton.

Someone in here opined that Dion doesn't throw the big hit anymore b/c he doesn't want to have to fight in response. At the time, I thought, "naaaw". But it does make sense. He really does not want to drop the mitts anymore. And there is literally NO help for him in that dept.
- fifty__missions

I said that

With how this team operates right now do you honestly think a couple high picks are going to do anything? They'll just be another Edmonton.
- daeth

Id rather them give it a shot

maybe some of them really want to get the (frank) out of there, like Kessel...
- fidopro

The media thinks they are talking about the star players being lazy, which after watching the games this year it's really the only thing they could be referencing... Maybe they are just lazy and thats why their respective clubs were ready to trade them away in the first place...

Youve been so stubborn on this. Id rather you just keep your stance on dion. Seriously. Youve been such an apologist id really respect you more if you just kept your stance
- Lee Denault

i was at the game last night and it was so pathetic when he did nothing back to ovi after the little jab he gave him

this is the same guy who just cheap shotted komarov and put him out for weeks.

sorry, that was the last straw.

ive defended dion for a long time, i have a dion jersey and i think hes the best D man we got

but you cant have your captain get female dog slapped in his home rink like that.

not only is he our best hitter and a pretty big guy, he showed too little emotion on that play.

id have rather he faught ovi, lost and had the boys respect him for doing it.

get my drift?

Id rather them give it a shot
- Lee Denault

Look at how many high picks they've had over the years and nothing has changed. Leafs fans (I don't even mean you, everyone in here is talking tank) are always looking for the easy fix but it's just not realistic to think that tanking is all they need to do to improve themselves.

I don't know if Shanahan is on the right path but maybe he is. We'll find out.

I'm not convinced tanking is the answer. That won't solve this teams apparently inability to draft and develop like the elite organizations in this league. They won't win anything until they fix that anyway. Tanking won't help that, they'd fail to build around whatever high picks they got without changing how they draft & develop. They could use some work when it comes to pro talent scouting and cap management too. Clarkson for $5M? Get real.
- daeth

Being a .500 team isn't either.

Someone in here opined that Dion doesn't throw the big hit anymore b/c he doesn't want to have to fight in response. At the time, I thought, "naaaw". But it does make sense. He really does not want to drop the mitts anymore. And there is literally NO help for him in that dept.
- fifty__missions

well how many top pairing D men do fight these days?

I'm not convinced tanking is the answer. That won't solve this teams apparently inability to draft and develop like the elite organizations in this league. They won't win anything until they fix that anyway. Tanking won't help that, they'd fail to build around whatever high picks they got without changing how they draft & develop. They could use some work when it comes to pro talent scouting and cap management too. Clarkson for $5M? Get real.
- daeth

On that note, I would really like to hear what Shanahan's vision is for this franchise.

If that is the approach, then yeah, they need to Sabres-tank. That means Kessel, Phaneuf, JVR ... literally everyone of any value.
- Aetherial

yup.. dump them all... draft a core.. and raise the kiddies together

well how many top pairing D men do fight these days?
- drexel

Not many. But we were talking about Dion getting embarrassed by OV last night. Needed a response.

Randy hasn't been a good coach since 2007.

Listen, I'm more than happy to meet halfway and say the players are a bunch of self-entitled (frank)wads. But I won't absolve Randy of all blame.
- TheThrill

Oh neither am I.
I wasnt his biggest fan.

Being a .500 team isn't either.
- Woderwick

Look at how Detroit builds. That is what Toronto should be trying to model themselves after. You don't need to tank to get good, you just need to consistently draft well and develop your players properly while avoiding terrible contracts.

i was at the game last night and it was so pathetic when he did nothing back to ovi after the little jab he gave him

this is the same guy who just cheap shotted komarov and put him out for weeks.

sorry, that was the last straw.

ive defended dion for a long time, i have a dion jersey and i think hes the best D man we got

but you cant have your captain get female dog slapped in his home rink like that.

not only is he our best hitter and a pretty big guy, he showed too little emotion on that play.

id have rather he faught ovi, lost and had the boys respect him for doing it.

get my drift?
- Lucas Neilson

I think youre starting to get mine.

People here need to stop defending the player they have on their jersey they bought. I have a gardiner jersey. Youll never see me defend him

So we keep Kessel, anyone else?

I am not much liking what I see from JVR. When he is not with Kessel he does NOTHING and I don't think his attitude is any better than Kessel's.

So, JVR gone also?

(I didn't suggest trading Kessel in the first place, but if I am pulling a Sabres, he probably has to go.)
- Aetherial

JVR is a solid second line winger. kind of like Michael Ryder before he got old. plug him into that second line and he'll score you 25-30 but you're not getting much else from the guy.

yup.. dump them all... draft a core.. and raise the kiddies together
- Dozzer

Promise to place the headlines from the Sun: LEAFS WIN!!! on my headstone Dozzer.

Look at how many high picks they've had over the years and nothing has changed. Leafs fans (I don't even mean you, everyone in here is talking tank) are always looking for the easy fix but it's just not realistic to think that tanking is all they need to do to improve themselves.

I don't know if Shanahan is on the right path but maybe he is. We'll find out.
- daeth

like who!??!?!?

name one time they maintained a drafting philosophy while playing youth with near the end vets for lets say.... 5 years straight?

they havent.

Not sure it has to be a total tank... Trading Dion for a pick and defensive d man isn't going to make the Leafs fall to last, not would trading Lupul, he's injured often anyway... They can make moves and still compete, I'd wager just ridding themselves of these lazy players alone would actually make them harder to play against, don't have to have big names to work hard...
- aminnes

Just need to get harder to play against. Look at Calgary blue collar lunch box group with size and effort. Thats all you can ask win or lose.

i was at the game last night and it was so pathetic when he did nothing back to ovi after the little jab he gave him

this is the same guy who just cheap shotted komarov and put him out for weeks.

sorry, that was the last straw.

ive defended dion for a long time, i have a dion jersey and i think hes the best D man we got

but you cant have your captain get female dog slapped in his home rink like that.

not only is he our best hitter and a pretty big guy, he showed too little emotion on that play.

id have rather he faught ovi, lost and had the boys respect him for doing it.

get my drift?
- Lucas Neilson

Not the first time he has looked bad in a similar situation... Who was the Montreal guy he refused to fight a couple years ago, and looked like a similar bum...

yup.. dump them all... draft a core.. and raise the kiddies together
- Dozzer

it amazes me how many people talk about things that'll never happen