Which is why the Hextall thing made me cringe. This inconsistency, these issues on ice have been the same old theme for 9 or so years. Far too many bad contracts, stupid trades or trades to have to just dump salary. Far too many coaches over the years. Swings in philosophy of d-first to offense heavy.

Every damn year the bosses going down to rip their own players, or trade out core guys who signed their life to the team. The time for blaming the men on the ice, should come to an end. Look at the top. Where everything originates.
- flyer_nutter

You act like the Flyers are the only team to call out players. And who cares if they signed a long contract with a team. They signed it because of the $$$$. It's a business. Everyone can traded.

Yeah, the team is built so damn well. So many good moves that will benefit the club for years.
- flyer_nutter

Absolutely. Lots of good moves. Including the future potential of Gostisbehere, Morin, and Laughton. Not to mention that Holmgren was also involved in drafting Giroux.

Yeah, doing pretty well -- a boon to most lines he's touched this year.
- Tomahawk

And he's been on the wing pretty much every shift.

http://sports.yahoo.com/b...y-timeline-142046318.html

Holmgren also added Voracek, B Schenn, Couturier, Read, Raffl, Coburn, Streit, etc.
- MJL

Your point is...?

Cool, Flyers are playing with 5 players tonight, and a goalie. For the entire game.
- MJL

Superb.

Absolutely. Lots of good moves. Including the future potential of Gostisbehere, Morin, and Laughton. Not to mention that Holmgren was also involved in drafting Giroux.
- MJL

Abul-Kubel, Sanheim, Hagg, Stolarz

Your point is...?
- 77rams

I thought it was obvious. Holmgren made some good moves, made some bad moves.

Good to know that teams/GMs/coaches/players can't be criticized without a full recitation of the good things they did as well.

Imma let you guys finish whatever point you're making, but first, let me share this video of Eric Lindros goals. I'm going to the game tonight and I'm currently down the youtube rabbit hole in 90's Flyers stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyho_BPi0z4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6_BMJ9En8c

Some of the early highlights just underscore how much of a beast he was.

I thought it was obvious. Holmgren made some good moves, made some bad moves.
- MJL

Then you're off the point. It was simply about bad contracts.

The players you cited with the exception of Streit, were not bad contracts and are, with the exception of Streit, movable contracts.

Good to know that teams/GMs/coaches/players can't be criticized without a full recitation of the good things they did as well.
- Jsaquella

It's about credibility. Any objective analysis of a player, coach, or GM should include both the good and the bad. Many sources on this forum who criticize Berube, only criticize him. For pretty much every move he makes.

Good to know that teams/GMs/coaches/players can't be criticized without a full recitation of the good things they did as well.
- Jsaquella

I don't think he was doing that. I think MJL was just trying to point out that not everything done was bad. The other poster had the extreme of everthing before Hextall was terrible.

I believe that every team has about 50/50 good and bad deals.

Good to know that teams/GMs/coaches/players can't be criticized without a full recitation of the good things they did as well.
- Jsaquella

I don't think he was doing that. I think MJL was just trying to point out that not everything done was bad. The other poster had the extreme of everthing before Hextall was terrible.

I believe that every team has about 50/50 good and bad deals.

Good to know that teams/GMs/coaches/players can't be criticized without a full recitation of the good things they did as well.
- Jsaquella

I don't think he was doing that. I think MJL was just trying to point out that not everything done was bad. The other poster had the extreme of everthing before Hextall was terrible.

I believe that every team has about 50/50 good and bad deals.

Then you're off the point. It was simply about bad contracts.

The players you cited with the exception of Streit, were not bad contracts and are, with the exception of Streit, movable contracts.
- 77rams

I don't see as off the point. I think if we're going to look at Holmgren objectively, the good and the bad should be included. If we're going to hammer him for the contracts that are preceived to be bad, then we should also offer the good that he has done. That is only fair.

Bobrovsky
Carle to chase fools gold in Suter/Parise
Walker/Gagne
Kubina
Hartnell extension #2 and the needed Umberger deal to dump it
Lava 3 games into season
Shelley extension
Eminger
Upshall and 2nd for Carcillo
Versteeg
Bryzgalov
Craig mother (frank)ing Berube
chronic cap mismanagement and bad deals to escape it
Luke Schenn for JVR
Macdonald
Lets all pray Streit holds up for the rest of his deal
LeCavalier
Inability to yield an NHL caliber fourth line for more than couple seasons.

I don't see as off the point. I think if we're going to look at Holmgren objectively, the good and the bad should be included. If we're going to hammer him for the contracts that are preceived to be bad, then we should also offer the good that he has done. That is only fair.
- MJL

He has done no good.

Good to know that teams/GMs/coaches/players can't be criticized without a full recitation of the good things they did as well.
- Jsaquella

First time round these parts son?

And he's been on the wing pretty much every shift.
- Feanor

Think it's really helped him to play with guys like G and Read who are comfortable setting up on the left half-wall, and carrying the puck up the left side of the NZ with speed... doing the more winger-ish kinds of things so he can keep center-lane driving and hanging around the net.

When they made the deal for Umberger and he had his physical, while I'm sure the doctor checked out his back and hand to see how he was healing up, did he at any point actually try to take his pulse?

If all 11 other forwards don't get more ice time than Umberger tonight, Berube should be fired immediately following the game.

On another topic, any word on Del Zotto?

I don't see as off the point. I think if we're going to look at Holmgren objectively, the good and the bad should be included. If we're going to hammer him for the contracts that are preceived to be bad, then we should also offer the good that he has done. That is only fair.
- MJL

You need to re-read the post and my reply closer.

I was only commenting on a poster's remark about a bad contract and the situation it currently places us in.

My reply was that you can't worry about what was done and that you only hope that the bad contracts can be undone somehow.

If you thought it was an indictment on Holmgren's entire body of work, you read too much into it.

Good to know that teams/GMs/coaches/players can't be criticized without a full recitation of the good things they did as well.
- Jsaquella

Honestly, I think we'll know more about what Hextall is as a GM when the young players come up. Right now, I think a lot of his moves are based on the future more so than the present.

In terms of Holmgren, he made his share of mistakes but he brought in the core and also drafted a lot of the prospects we currently have on the farm during his last few years.

I don't think he was doing that. I think MJL was just trying to point out that not everything done was bad. The other poster had the extreme of everthing before Hextall was terrible.

I believe that every team has about 50/50 good and bad deals.
- J35Bacher

I don't think it's necessary to balance things out. We all know that people do good and bad things. No need to have some half-assed Johnny Cochran trot out all the good stuff as a defense of a guy.

You should be able to make a post that is critical of a player, coach or GM without having to acknowledge that he's not all bad. There's nothing in the code of conduct that says opinions have to be balanced.