Good read. You are way off base on Quick though. As a Kings fan I have seen a lot of mediocre to terrible goaltending. I know you can make a case with stats to make a point that Quick is a beneficiary of the teams defense and style of play. Ask any reporter who covers this team for a full season. Ask any die hard fan. No one will agree with your assertion that Quick is not elite. Team USA management will not agree with your assertion that Quick is not elite. He should have won the Vezina in 2012 and is having a terrific start to this season with 2 shutouts both of the 40 save variety.

He recently became the franchise leader in shutouts with 33 career. He is also the Franchise leader in wins.
- QuicksEnnormous

Quick is a monster. One of my favorite goalies in the league. If quick isn't an elite goalie, then really no one is. Saying he's not elite solely off stats and not watching him play is a little irresponsible

Quick has 2 cups in recent years, I think he is doing just fine. Every team has a contract or 2 they regret, but I think Ryan is missing the market here. You can argue that Lundquest isn't good value at 8.5. Is he winning games? Winning Cups? No reason to move him. Every time you criticize MAF, there is never a viable option brought up. We all would love Griess to step up, but he is completely unproven. Even if he did step up and blew us all away, he will be a UFA next year and go to the highest bidder. Now you throw Quick under the bus the same as MAF, with no suggestion of a viable replacement.

Quick is an elite goaltender

Excellent blog and analysis, Ryan.

Every time you criticize MAF, there is never a viable option brought up.
- sammy87

Only one I can think of was James "the mad" Reimer, who sucks.

It's like football - everybody loves the backup, but not once that backup has become the starter. See Tomczak, M.

Quick has 2 cups in recent years, I think he is doing just fine. Every team has a contract or 2 they regret, but I think Ryan is missing the market here. You can argue that Lundquest isn't good value at 8.5. Is he winning games? Winning Cups? No reason to move him. Every time you criticize MAF, there is never a viable option brought up. We all would love Griess to step up, but he is completely unproven. Even if he did step up and blew us all away, he will be a UFA next year and go to the highest bidder. Now you throw Quick under the bus the same as MAF, with no suggestion of a viable replacement.
- sammy87

I agree with Ryan's premise that many tenders are overpaid.

I don't agree goalies are "plug and play". He lost me comparing the goalie position to that of an NFL RB.

I don't agree with his assessment of Quick either.

RW is right about the future roster decisions the Kings have to make next year. Stoll, Williams, Pearson and Toffoli. I have a feeling Stoll is going to be the odd man out. I also think this will be Mike Richards last season as a King. His Contract is horrible.

What I do not agree with is his take on Quick and a MAF comparison, they should not even be mentioned in the same breath. There are some goalies whom I say were system goalies and there the elite goalies that are athletic. Not only is he athletic, he is an acorbat too. There are very few goalies in this league that can move side to side as fast as Quick can.

In a any event, good luck tonight, we are real short handed at the moment. I hope Kopitar plays tonight.

The argument isn't that Fleury and Quick are the same goalie. Quick is better.

The argument is that they both have unnecessary cap hits and the teams could do better elsewhere and have.

People get attached to names they recognize as opposed to what the actual output is.

The argument isn't that Fleury and Quick are the same goalie. Quick is better.

The argument is that they both have unnecessary cap hits and the teams could do better elsewhere and have.

People get attached to names they recognize as opposed to what the actual output is.
- Ryan_Wilson

Quick gives you everything you want and need at his price. The only goalie who could have maybe replaced him would have been bernier, but he will eventually get a monster contract too. Good goalies will continue to be overpaid, just like some free agents are. It's part of the business

I agree with Ryan's premise that many tenders are overpaid.

I don't agree goalies are "plug and play". He lost me comparing the goalie position to that of an NFL RB.

I don't agree with his assessment of Quick either.
- 87_71_11_29

Would you really want to do as the Flyers have done and play musical chairs with goalies and wait and find one that hopefully works out, or have had MAF the past 5 years? I seem to remember MAF with back to back shutouts against the Rags, but scoring goals was the problem the past playoffs.

The argument isn't that Fleury and Quick are the same goalie. Quick is better.

The argument is that they both have unnecessary cap hits and the teams could do better elsewhere and have.

People get attached to names they recognize as opposed to what the actual output is.
- Ryan_Wilson

Name 1 goalie out there that is a realistic option that the Kings or Pens could have had similar performance at a lesser cap hit?

Name 1 goalie out there that is a realistic option that the Kings or Pens could have had similar performance at a lesser cap hit?
- sammy87

They both have one on their respective rosters right now. You are married to name recognition.

They have both let one go as well (Vokoun/Scrivens).

It's really not that hard.

Name 1 goalie out there that is a realistic option that the Kings or Pens could have had similar performance at a lesser cap hit?
- sammy87

Martin Jones could be an option down the line. He will one day be a starter in the NHL, but, I"ll play my cards with Quick. Last year when Quick was injured, he did one heck of a job.

The argument isn't that Fleury and Quick are the same goalie. Quick is better.

The argument is that they both have unnecessary cap hits and the teams could do better elsewhere and have.

People get attached to names they recognize as opposed to what the actual output is.
- Ryan_Wilson

Is the goal to win cups or have good save %? I'm sure you'll inform me how good LA is like Quick has no hand in that.

They both have one on their respective rosters right now. You are married to name recognition.

They have both let one go as well (Vokoun/Scrivens).

It's really not that hard.
- Ryan_Wilson

I'm not disagreeing with you that for the value MAF is not that great. But you are pretending that the Pens playoffs failures rest on his shoulders which is simply not true. Vokoun had the same result as MAF against Boston 0-4, Pens couldn't score.

Quick has 2 cups in recent years, I think he is doing just fine. Every team has a contract or 2 they regret, but I think Ryan is missing the market here. You can argue that Lundquest isn't good value at 8.5. Is he winning games? Winning Cups? No reason to move him. Every time you criticize MAF, there is never a viable option brought up. We all would love Griess to step up, but he is completely unproven. Even if he did step up and blew us all away, he will be a UFA next year and go to the highest bidder. Now you throw Quick under the bus the same as MAF, with no suggestion of a viable replacement.
- sammy87

What is it with you guys and your love affair with goalies, particularly MAF? MAF repeatedly coughs up bad goals and ridiculously fat rebounds. All RW has done is illustrate--with numbers and salary--areas of the game where MAF has shortcomings and why he is not a good fit here. He doesnt name specific goalies as "viable replacements" because he indicates MAF is at or below the league avg. Therefore, just about any goalie would do well as a replacement!
Name me ONE playoff series MAF has stolen or won single-handedly since the Pens won Cup in 2009? YOU CANT!!!! But we can name you several playoff series where MAF's poor play was the main culpret in an upset (by seed) loss!

So pretty much Ryan is saying that Quick is overpaid?? I thought a 5.8M cap hit for a top 5 goalie in the NHL is actually a steal, considering the contracts that have been handed out to goalies lately.

I'm not disagreeing with you that for the value MAF is not that great. But you are pretending that the Pens playoffs failures rest on his shoulders which is simply not true. Vokoun had the same result as MAF against Boston 0-4, Pens couldn't score.
- sammy87

But every time you guys make this argument, you continue to ignore the fact that MAF poor goaltending often leads DIRECTLY to playoff losses. See games 4-6-7 in the Montreal 2010 series... Or Philly series in 2012. In those games, even though Pens scored some goals, bad or hideous goals allowed by MAF sunk the team. You guys always ignore MAF's flaws and immediately point out other areas where the Pens fell short. You are NEVER willing to admit that MAF's play can--often at the worst possible time--cause the team to lose...

What is it with you guys and your love affair with goalies, particularly MAF? MAF repeatedly coughs up bad goals and ridiculously fat rebounds. All RW has done is illustrate--with numbers and salary--areas of the game where MAF has shortcomings and why he is not a good fit here. He doesnt name specific goalies as "viable replacements" because he indicates MAF is at or below the league avg. Therefore, just about any goalie would do well as a replacement!
Name me ONE playoff series MAF has stolen or won single-handedly since the Pens won Cup in 2009? YOU CANT!!!! But we can name you several playoff series where MAF's poor play was the main culpret in an upset (by seed) loss!
- Amanion

I have 0 attachment to MAF. My issue is with RW pretending that he is root cause to the Pens struggles and cap issues. There are similar goalies out there with similar cap hits or even higher ones. I would take the Pens issues with MAF over what the Flyers do every day of the week.

But every time you guys make this argument, you continue to ignore the fact that MAF poor goaltending often leads DIRECTLY to playoff losses. See games 4-6-7 in the Montreal 2010 series... Or Philly series in 2012. In those games, even though Pens scored some goals, bad or hideous goals allowed by MAF sunk the team. You guys always ignore MAF's flaws and immediately point out other areas where the Pens fell short. You are NEVER willing to admit that MAF's play can--often at the worst possible time--cause the team to lose...
- Amanion

Vokoun played against Boston, still lost. Different goalie, same result.

No matter how bad MAF has been, the Pens have failed to even put a strong effort out on the ice. Their recent playoff performances have been a joke, the entire team, not just MAF.

Vokoun played against Boston, still lost. Different goalie, same result.

No matter how bad MAF has been, the Pens have failed to even put a strong effort out on the ice. Their recent playoff performances have been a joke, the entire team, not just MAF.
- sammy87

MAF hasn't played well in the playoffs the last few years, but neither has the team. To place blame solely on MAF shoulders is ridiculous.

Megnatron has been recalled.

edit -- hopefully takes Sill's place.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

That's my boy

The argument isn't that Fleury and Quick are the same goalie. Quick is better.

The argument is that they both have unnecessary cap hits and the teams could do better elsewhere and have.

People get attached to names they recognize as opposed to what the actual output is.
- Ryan_Wilson

and others (you) get way too attached to pure statistics. theres something to be said for quicks consistency over a much larger sample size than his backups. who is to say over a 2-3 yr period facing the same number of attempts in as many games would play as well as quick. adding to that, you have to think the kings players are much more comfortable and confident in quick than anyone else they'd put in net. its cute you can make the numbers say quick isnt elite or better than a backup, but youre wrong.

on another note, why are non stats people always too attached to names and/or visuals, but stats people are never too attached to numbers?

So pretty much Ryan is saying that Quick is overpaid?? I thought a 5.8M cap hit for a top 5 goalie in the NHL is actually a steal, considering the contracts that have been handed out to goalies lately.
- cap1681

I'm interested to see how Quick does the rest of the season and in the playoffs (great start so far). He was absolutely incredible in the 2011-12 season and especially in the Cup run, but he has been average since then. Last year, they won despite of him, he had 8 playoff games where he allowed 4+ goals. That is not very good...

He built his reputation and his contract on a couple of great seasons, but if his play going forward is like the last couple years (I realized there have been some injury issues), that contract won't look that great. If he regains his form like he has looked like so far this season, then he's back in the conversation of top goalies.

That's my boy
- nh4442

Yeah, will be fun to see what he can do with Goc.

I am not a huge Fleury fan, if he has not learned to control himself and not overreact and play the puck badly I see little chance of that changing at this point. I think he is overpaid. I do not agree as much with Quick as they have produced two Stanley Cups with him in net. I don't know the financial value of that but I imagine it's significant. Not to mention keeping and building fan base.