also....according to YOUR WEBSITE that you've been referencing.

turris GA20 - 0.624 = GA60 1.872

stepan GA20 - 0.672 = GA60 2.016

http://stats.hockeyanalys...&sort=OPPF20&sortdir=DESC

so tell me again how there's no debate......maybe you should get your facts straight
- sensarmy_11

You're looking at the wrong statistic. You need to look at the 2nd column: GA20.

Edit: You adjusted for zone starts and close game situations. I didn't.

You're looking at the wrong statistic. You need to look at the 2nd column: GA20.
- rangerdanger94

oh, i'm looking at the right column.....maybe you should look again

oh, i'm looking at the right column.....maybe you should look again
- sensarmy_11

You are correct. I didn't adjust for zone starts or close game situations.

My stats use a much larger sample size than yours.

You are correct. I didn't adjust for zone starts or close game situations.
- rangerdanger94

jesus (frank) there's too many stats........

i clicked on the link you posted earlier.....that's what came up

jesus (frank) there's too many stats........

i clicked on the link you posted earlier.....that's what came up
- sensarmy_11

Advanced stats are stupid

You can literally just change a bunch of poop until you get the result you want and use it in an argument. So dumb.

Advanced stats are stupid
- rangerdanger94

don't know about stupid....but definitely confusing.

i'm gonna end my night by saying they're both good, and i'd be glad to have either on my team

I think Toews has had one season as a point a game player.

But, yes, the bench mark for Turris is Begeron and Toews. And, I will say again Turris will not get individual recognition of that level unless the Senators achieve team success.
- spatso

I have a feeling you are going to be severely disappointed. Turris has great ability but if the Sens win the Stanley Cup and Turris is putting up 50/60 points I doubt people put him in the class of one of this leagues all-star great players. In order to get recognition in the same manner as the guys you listed, he will have to bump up his offensive production, and more importantly, his timely/clutch production. I've lost count of the important goals Bergeron and Toews have scored. Turris, not so much other than the epic OT wrister against the Rangers.

I think Turris can bump up his offensive output to close to 0.75 point per game. That's adequate. I think Zibby has the same ceiling as Turris, but has a more physical edge. If both these guys play well, we should be competitive.

I have a feeling you are going to be severely disappointed. Turris has great ability but if the Sens win the Stanley Cup and Turris is putting up 50/60 points I doubt people put him in the class of one of this leagues all-star great players. In order to get recognition in the same manner as the guys you listed, he will have to bump up his offensive production, and more importantly, his timely/clutch production. I've lost count of the important goals Bergeron and Toews have scored. Turris, not so much other than the epic OT wrister against the Rangers.

I think Turris can bump up his offensive output to close to 0.75 point per game. That's adequate. I think Zibby has the same ceiling as Turris, but has a more physical edge. If both these guys play well, we should be competitive.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Turris needs to win a Selke to be in the same conversation as Toews and Bergeron. It's that simple.

From a pure production standpoint, Stepan is WAY ahead. So far he averages about 15 points more per season. Also, he's younger.

Beyond that, do your own damn math.
- BINGO!

I love Stepan, super underrated player and a massive part of NYRs recent success.

Zibanejad will have a breakout year. I see him putting up 60-70 points with Stone on his wing,
- TheCalSen

You must mean with Hoffman on his wing.

breakout star of the year boys, I'm tellin ya...

Good debate going on in here between Turris and Stephan, the advanced stats are sort of comical when you start changing the cercumstances on the ice.

They are both very good second line Centers.

Murray has stated he believes Zibby will eventually take the #1C posistion.


2015-2016 Sens Forwards

(Trade/UFA) - Zibanejad - Ryan
MacArthur - Turris - Stone
Michalek - Legwand - Chaisson
Puempel - Smith - Lazar

Neil
Greening

Condra is probably gone after this season(UFA)

We have the assets/cap space to aquire a good forward via trade/UFA. Eugene will spend when we're getting closer to contension as he's done in years past IMO

Kyle Turris v.s. Derek Stepan

Turris, sighter taller, Stepan tougher. Turris better faceoff player by a considerable margin. Turris better skater. Stepan better hitter. Both great 200 feet (2way) players. Stepan is a tough battler type center that can produce offence for himself and wingers; Turris is a agile skater with an active stick and high hockey sense. It's very debatable who you'd rather have on your team. Stephan is more playoff tested and progressed a little ahead of Kyle, although based on last season if Turris improves even a little from last year he can surpass Stephan; along with many other centers

Turris needs to win a Selke to be in the same conversation as Toews and Bergeron. It's that simple.
- rangerdanger94

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMMUYQp_XRA

Zibanejad will have a breakout year. I see him putting up 60-70 points with Stone on his wing,
- TheCalSen

Stone must be one hell of a winger.

Stone must be one hell of a winger.
- ClarksonDavid

yeah...cmon...hes a totally proven top 6 forward...his 8 points in 24 games is elite..

joking aside, i do think Stone can put up decent numbers given a proper shot in the top 6...but yeah..that statement was a little silly...

yeah...cmon...hes a totally proven top 6 forward...his 8 points in 24 games is elite..

joking aside, i do think Stone can put up decent numbers given a proper shot in the top 6...but yeah..that statement was a little silly...
- TheMike12

refreshing to hear (read) someone accepting criticism

yeah...cmon...hes a totally proven top 6 forward...his 8 points in 24 games is elite..

joking aside, i do think Stone can put up decent numbers given a proper shot in the top 6...but yeah..that statement was a little silly...
- TheMike12

Yeah I think stone will be a decent winger for you guys long term but I don't think we will make Zibby a 70 point player this season.

Yeah I think stone will be a decent winger for you guys long term but I don't think we will make Zibby a 70 point player this season.
- ClarksonDavid

I still maintain that the top line (mac-turris-ryan) won't be together all year, as Maclean will want to spread out the offense.

he's said in the past that he likes to arrange his forwards in pairs, and then find a complimentary forward to play with them........mix that with the fact that the team has said they see zibby as being a 1st line center..........i think his primary winger will be Ryan. Maybe not to start the year, but they looked good when playing together last year.

my ideal top six would be (not what i think will be there to start, but what i'd like to see)

stone - zibby - ryan
mac - turris - chiasson/hoffman

Yeah I think stone will be a decent winger for you guys long term but I don't think we will make Zibby a 70 point player this season.
- ClarksonDavid

Sens fans are in for a huge reality check if they believe Zibby with get 70 points. I would be more then happy if he got anywhere between 45-50.

Same with Stone. If he could play a full season and put up 40 points I would hope most Sens fans would be ecstatic.

Sens fans are in for a huge reality check if they believe Zibby with get 70 points. I would be more then happy if he got anywhere between 45-50.

Same with Stone. If he could play a full season and put up 40 points I would hope most Sens fans would be ecstatic.
- SENS 613

he put up 16 goals and 33 pts, in 69 games last year.....playing mostly limited minutes in the bottom six, with little to no PP time.

maybe 70 is a stretch, but it's not unreasonable to think that with an increased role, he could put up similar numbers to what turris had last year.....25g/55ish pts

Turris, quality bone structure, creamy skin tone, haunting eyes - a gentlemen with the playful instincts of a scoundrel. Stepan, buttermilk complexion, textbook musculature, shallow expressions - skilled, but has all of the intrigue of a brown paper bag filled with smaller brown paper bags. Stepan may have scored more points, but I give Turris the edge given his slightly better numbers versus Gemini opponents that are < 6'1 tall, with blue or green eyes, in games played South of the 41st parallel, on days when it has rained no more than 2mm in the past 24hrs (5-5 situations only, compensating for offensive-zone starts, tap-water quality variances, and filtering out known instances of sleep apnea and irritable bowel syndrome... and no, snow is not the same as rain, which is why this could be a more relevant advantage come playoff time). But it's really close.

Turris will be in the same league as Toews and Bergeron when he wins not only a Selke Trophy (or two), a Stanley Cup (or two), and an Olympic Gold Medal (or two) - preferably while also being named the MVP of one of those tournaments.

Turris, quality bone structure, creamy skin tone, haunting eyes - a gentlemen with the playful instincts of a scoundrel. Stepan, buttermilk complexion, textbook musculature, shallow expressions - skilled, but has all of the ingrigue of a brown paper bag filled with smaller brown paper bags. Stepan may have scored more points, but I give Turris the edge given his slighly better numbers versus Gemini opponents that are < 6'1 tall, with blue or green eyes, in games played South of the 41st parallel, on days when it has rained no more than 2mm in the past 24hrs (5-5 situations only, compensating for offensive-zone starts, tap-water quality variances, and filtering out known instances of sleep apena and irritable bowel syndrome... and no, snow is not the same as rain, which is why this could be a more relevant advantage come playoff time). But it's really close.

Turris will be in the same league as Toews and Bergeron when he wins not only a Selke Trophy (or two), a Stanley Cup (or two), and an Olympic Gold Medal (or two) - preferably while also being named the MVP of one of those tournaments.
- khawk

I still maintain that the top line (mac-turris-ryan) won't be together all year, as Maclean will want to spread out the offense.

he's said in the past that he likes to arrange his forwards in pairs, and then find a complimentary forward to play with them........mix that with the fact that the team has said they see zibby as being a 1st line center..........i think his primary winger will be Ryan. Maybe not to start the year, but they looked good when playing together last year.

my ideal top six would be (not what i think will be there to start, but what i'd like to see)

stone - zibby - ryan
mac - turris - chiasson/hoffman
- sensarmy_11

I really liked the
Stone - Turris - Mac line at the end of the season. I think Stoner plays better defensively and I found he was harder on the forcheck (created more turnovers etc.)

At some point during the season I wouldn't be suprised to see

Stone - Turris - Mac
Ryan - Zibby - Chiasson

(Ugh thats a weak Top 6 no matter how you spin it)

Turris, quality bone structure, creamy skin tone, haunting eyes - a gentlemen with the playful instincts of a scoundrel. Stepan, buttermilk complexion, textbook musculature, shallow expressions - skilled, but has all of the intrigue of a brown paper bag filled with smaller brown paper bags. Stepan may have scored more points, but I give Turris the edge given his slightly better numbers versus Gemini opponents that are < 6'1 tall, with blue or green eyes, in games played South of the 41st parallel, on days when it has rained no more than 2mm in the past 24hrs (5-5 situations only, compensating for offensive-zone starts, tap-water quality variances, and filtering out known instances of sleep apnea and irritable bowel syndrome... and no, snow is not the same as rain, which is why this could be a more relevant advantage come playoff time). But it's really close.

Turris will be in the same league as Toews and Bergeron when he wins not only a Selke Trophy (or two), a Stanley Cup (or two), and an Olympic Gold Medal (or two) - preferably while also being named the MVP of one of those tournaments.
- khawk

Hahaha
Top Shelf Post

I really liked the
Stone - Turris - Mac line at the end of the season. I think Stoner plays better defensively and I found he was harder on the forcheck (created more turnovers etc.)

At some point during the season I wouldn't be suprised to see

Stone - Turris - Mac
Ryan - Zibby - Chiasson

(Ugh thats a weak Top 6 no matter how you spin it)
- SENS 613

Could put Michalek here instead.I agree its not chicago,s top 6 but its not that bad