This comment thread is a filthy abomination that I regrettably cannot unread.

yep, 225 posts and counting

this signing further reaffirms that the pacioretty deal has got to be in the top 3 in the league.

this signing further reaffirms that the pacioretty deal has got to be in the top 3 in the league.
- munky123

not sure i'd use this deal as a comparable, since it's actually a pretty good deal (mac had only 5 points less than pacioretty, although 15 fewer goals).......that being said, if his deal isn't top 3, it's DEFINITELY up there.

Toews offense simply is not good enough to be considered the best. Kane is more talented.
- RogerRoeper

If this was Facebook, I would have just de-friended you.

Go take the ice bucket challenge.

So wrong.

So very, very wrong.

his 30 goal season was in the past 4...so stop saying stupid things.
- senstroll

Kulemin was so vastly over-rated by Toronto fans.

We will not miss him.

Especially since Komarov is coming back - we can vastly over-rate him instead.

first of all, generally speaking, van fans NEVER started being more delusional than leaf fans.

second of all, using spatso as an example is like me using prock as an example.

third, terror is a bruins fan, not sure why you bring him up.

fourth, if you actually read what spatso wrote re. your claim that turris=bergeron, he said turris tries to tailor his game after bergeron's, and is the player he MIGHT turn into. not exactly the same as saying turris=bergeron.
- sensarmy_11

Much appreciated. My problem is actually more with some of the Sens fans than the leaf guys. If you want to win a Stanley Cup you have to be able to play great defensive hockey. The teams that have won recently have had a great presence down the middle (Kopitar, Toews, Bergeron). These guys who are outside many people's list of the very best NHL centers. Although most people might see them as good players that don't get the label as great player until they actually win. Yet a guy like Tavares or Spezza can be seen as top players merely on the offensive numbers they put up.

As most of you know I strongly encouraged Ottawa trading Spezza as far back as two years ago. Teams do not win championships behind one dimensional players. Turris had an even strength goal differential of plus 22 (6th among NHL centers) playing against the opposing teams top line most shifts. Spezza was minus 26 near the league bottom.

If Zibinajad (or Lazar at some future point) can match the 200' game played by Turris Ottawa will contend. Ottawa wants to reduce goals against by 50 this year. If they do they will contend. If Zibibajad, Legwand and Smith can each do a 1/3 and have a combined goal differential equal to the Turris total, Ottawa will be fighting for first place.

The Leafs do not play a 200' game. They have made the playoffs once in ten years. I understand their fans not understanding how special a player Turris is. But I am disappointed with Sens fans who still don't understand what the game plan is for the coming season.

The advanced stats are really comparable between the two, for sure.

Bergeron is 3rd in the NHL(among players who played over 40 games), and Turris is 164th! Both are ranked! Comparable!


(PS- worth noting that the Leafs' bargain bin signing, Booth, is 163rd)
- Feeling Glucky?

What stat is that?

Why is Karlssson a top 10 player exactly? As a D-Man, he's everybit as "One-dimensional" as Kessel is.
- RogerRoeper

Bull. First let's state the most obvious point here which people understate: Erik Karlsson had his achilles tendon!! severed 70%. Look at Dave Bolland. EK65 is a freak of nature and certainly is not IMO comparable to Phil Kessel. Kessel is an elite goal scorer with elite speed but what Karlsson brings (when this injury will not be an issue) maybe 2-4 players right now have. No Dman in the game comes close offensively (that shows in the stats). Here's what Chris Phillips - a 16 year vet that doesn't need to blow anyone's horn:

It was unbelievable,” said Senators defenceman Chris Phillips, before Ottawa faced Pittsburgh in Game 2 of their second-round series. “[At the beginning of the season] he picked up right where he left off last year, as one of the best players in the game, and obviously it was fun to play with him, but quite often I’d just be a fan, and watch what he was capable of doing on the ice. It was a treat.

“He just has ice in his veins. There’s no situation that seems to faze him — he knows what he can do, and he’s willing to do that, to try anything at any point. He’d carry the puck out of the zone, instead of chipping it off the glass like 90% of us do. He makes the risky plays look easy.”

Having said all this, I went to a game late in the season. Karlsson was not sharp defensively. He looked like he struggled to win some puck battles and didn't have a defensive presence like before. Again, I'd like to see anyone get this injury and play like that. Karlsson on Pittsburgh, Boston, Chicago or some other elite teams is playing Lindstrom type seasons. Add in the contract - most if not all 30 GMs will take Karlsson over Kessel.

As for Kyle Turris - let's see next year. I don't think Kessel has much higher to go - atleast offensively - in his game. Turris just turned 25 last week - Kessel is 27 once the season starts. Turris will finally get #1 mins. A lot of people talk about playing against the best Dmen - which is a valid point for sure. I think Turris has not reached his true potential and I'm not sure if that will happened this year or not.

All I can say is that I would rather have a 25 year old Kyle Turris at $3.5M for the next 4 years AND Clarke MacArthur (the 2nd best winger on Ottawa last season by a mile) over Kessel (8 x 8 years)

just to be obnoxious

subban over karlsson all day long!

just to be obnoxious

subban over karlsson all day long!
- munky123

Subban is not even Montreal's best Dman.

Karlsson named top Dman at Olympics.

Subban named...oops he didn't even get into a game.

not sure i'd use this deal as a comparable, since it's actually a pretty good deal (mac had only 5 points less than pacioretty, although 15 fewer goals).......that being said, if his deal isn't top 3, it's DEFINITELY up there.
- sensarmy_11

ya bt i think those 15 goals do count alot in this case. pacs could potentially be a 50 goal scorer at 4.5 mil a year. hes signed until 19/20 at 4.5 hell hit 40 goals next year, or at least quite close. How much is the market paying a potential 35-50 g scorer a year? Well over 5.5-6 a year... while i love the sens deal, just puts in perspective the discount pacs gave, or the fail of his agent

Subban is not even Montreal's best Dman.

Karlsson named top Dman at Olympics.

Subban named...oops he didn't even get into a game.
- spatso

come on man.....really?

So if Jumbo Joe is on the block or better yet Patty Marleau, what would you give to get them on the Sens?

ya bt i think those 15 goals do count alot in this case. pacs could potentially be a 50 goal scorer at 4.5 mil a year. hes signed until 19/20 at 4.5 hell hit 40 goals next year, or at least quite close. How much is the market paying a potential 35-50 g scorer a year? Well over 5.5-6 a year... while i love the sens deal, just puts in perspective the discount pacs gave, or the fail of his agent
- munky123

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying mac is anywhere as good as pacioretty. i was simply saying that mac is quite productive, and comes at a pretty reasonable cap hit.

was simply saying that if you're looking for deals that show how good pacioretty's deal is, this probably isn't one of the ones you should use.

So if Jumbo Joe is on the block or better yet Patty Marleau, what would you give to get them on the Sens?
- riceroni

not close to what San Jose would want or the players are worth.

these are players you add to a team ready to win now.......ottawa isn't. they'd be stupid to give up assets to get players in (relatively speaking) the twilight of their careers.

Much appreciated. My problem is actually more with some of the Sens fans than the leaf guys. If you want to win a Stanley Cup you have to be able to play great defensive hockey. The teams that have won recently have had a great presence down the middle (Kopitar, Toews, Bergeron). These guys who are outside many people's list of the very best NHL centers. Although most people might see them as good players that don't get the label as great player until they actually win. Yet a guy like Tavares or Spezza can be seen as top players merely on the offensive numbers they put up.

As most of you know I strongly encouraged Ottawa trading Spezza as far back as two years ago. Teams do not win championships behind one dimensional players. Turris had an even strength goal differential of plus 22 (6th among NHL centers) playing against the opposing teams top line most shifts. Spezza was minus 26 near the league bottom.

If Zibinajad (or Lazar at some future point) can match the 200' game played by Turris Ottawa will contend. Ottawa wants to reduce goals against by 50 this year. If they do they will contend. If Zibibajad, Legwand and Smith can each do a 1/3 and have a combined goal differential equal to the Turris total, Ottawa will be fighting for first place.

The Leafs do not play a 200' game. They have made the playoffs once in ten years. I understand their fans not understanding how special a player Turris is. But I am disappointed with Sens fans who still don't understand what the game plan is for the coming season.
- spatso

this is a parody right? You're joking?

haha and you bit! that said, subban as for dfd, sure hes not our best, ofd? i think so. also subbans def side and size imo put him over kar. No question kar is amzing on his skates, but if i were building my d, id take subban over kar every time. karlsson can score but he is not the greatest at defending let alone, hes not always on the right side of the puck. I also see subbans ceiling being way higher. With his skill and speed, if he were to have played fwd, man... kar would probably be an even more spectacular player.

also subban not making the ice for team canada? cmon, you know hockey better than that. swe d wouldnt even make canadas final 6 save for karlsson. not an insult to subban, more a measure of how good canadas d is.

Subban is not even Montreal's best Dman.

Karlsson named top Dman at Olympics.

Subban named...oops he didn't even get into a game.
- spatso

not close to what San Jose would want or the players are worth.

these are players you add to a team ready to win now.......ottawa isn't. they'd be stupid to give up assets to get players in (relatively speaking) the twilight of their careers.
- sensarmy_11

I agree.

Rather see them go after a young power forward.

So if Jumbo Joe is on the block or better yet Patty Marleau, what would you give to get them on the Sens?
- riceroni

Mark Stone + A retirement savings plan

There's no way Thornton (35) or Marleau (35 next month) fit on the Sens. Marleau would be great to add but no.

this is a parody right? You're joking?
- burn

I understand that you don't understand. I know that you don't know how teams actually are built to contend. I believe you believe that making the playoffs is enough. And, we accept your believing that scoring goals is the most important thing for successful teams to do

haha and you bit! that said, subban as for dfd, sure hes not our best, ofd? i think so. also subbans def side and size imo put him over kar. No question kar is amzing on his skates, but if i were building my d, id take subban over kar every time. karlsson can score but he is not the greatest at defending let alone, hes not always on the right side of the puck. I also see subbans ceiling being way higher. With his skill and speed, if he were to have played fwd, man... kar would probably be an even more spectacular player.

also subban not making the ice for team canada? cmon, you know hockey better than that. swe d wouldnt even make canadas final 6 save for karlsson. not an insult to subban, more a measure of how good canadas d is.
- munky123

it was hard to tell who you were talking about at certain points but..... I underlined where I disagree with what your saying. Karlsson, before his injury and absolutely amazing recover, was the best Dman in the game (along with Keith, Doughty, Weber). Those four were in the league of their own. You could put Suter close to there but...... so let's just start with who they have. Weber has Josi, Doughty has Voynov, Keith has Seabrook, Subban has Markov, Karlsson has....... ....... ...... Methot. Nothing against Methot, he's a great player but not comparable to guys that have cup rings and log the mins that they do.

Subban is at the top of his game and I do think it's obvious he's a stronger, meaner, and better equipped physically. Karlsson just has poise and skating that few Dmen have ever had in history of the game. I don't know if Karlsson will return the form he was playing at, but if he does, he can play Lindstrom style hockey.... all he needs then is support

haha and you bit! that said, subban as for dfd, sure hes not our best, ofd? i think so. also subbans def side and size imo put him over kar. No question kar is amzing on his skates, but if i were building my d, id take subban over kar every time. karlsson can score but he is not the greatest at defending let alone, hes not always on the right side of the puck. I also see subbans ceiling being way higher. With his skill and speed, if he were to have played fwd, man... kar would probably be an even more spectacular player.

also subban not making the ice for team canada? cmon, you know hockey better than that. swe d wouldnt even make canadas final 6 save for karlsson. not an insult to subban, more a measure of how good canadas d is.
- munky123

I think your disagreeing with the point you were trying to make.

it was hard to tell who you were talking about at certain points but..... I underlined where I disagree with what your saying. Karlsson, before his injury and absolutely amazing recover, was the best Dman in the game (along with Keith, Doughty, Weber). Those four were in the league of their own. You could put Suter close to there but...... so let's just start with who they have. Weber has Josi, Doughty has Voynov, Keith has Seabrook, Subban has Markov, Karlsson has....... ....... ...... Methot. Nothing against Methot, he's a great player but not comparable to guys that have cup rings and log the mins that they do.

Subban is at the top of his game and I do think it's obvious he's a stronger, meaner, and better equipped physically. Karlsson just has poise and skating that few Dmen have ever had in history of the game. I don't know if Karlsson will return the form he was playing at, but if he does, he can play Lindstrom style hockey.... all he needs then is support
- AlfieisKing

This coming year the entire Ottawa game is going to be built around Karlsson. We will see soon enough just how good he is and if he can pull Ottawa up to an elite level.