He had a couple of issues, but I'd take him at .993 then Carle at 5.5.
- Artyukhin76

I wouldn't take Gudas in my top 4 for free if I wanted to fight for a Stanley Cup. Not now. Maybe 2-3 years down the road. But not now. He might not ever be a top 4 for the Lightning, really.

I wouldn't take Gudas in my top 4 for free if I wanted to fight for a Stanley Cup. Not now. Maybe 2-3 years down the road. But not now. He might not ever be a top 4 for the Lightning, really.
- TBolts4

I never said I'd have him in the top four. The only reason I have Carle in the top four is because of his (frank)ing pay.

I never said I'd have him in the top four. The only reason I have Carle in the top four is because of his (frank)ing pay.
- Artyukhin76

Carle is not overpaid for what he brings. He's a legitimate top 4 guy.
Put Stamkos with Crombeen and Malone and he doesnt score 50 goals. Would that mean he's not a top line center since he cant produce without top help? A little exageration but kind of the same logic that you have.

Carle is not overpaid for what he brings. He's a legitimate top 4 guy.
Put Stamkos with Crombeen and Malone and he doesnt score 50 goals. Would that mean he's not a top line center since he cant produce without top help? A little exageration but kind of the same logic that you have.
- TBolts4

Carle needs others to be better, that's not a good player in my opinion. He's a complementary second pairing with the right partner. He NEVER makes others better and was a drag on Gudas.

Carle needs others to be better, that's not a good player in my opinion. He's a complementary second pairing with the right partner. He NEVER makes others better and was a drag on Gudas.
- Artyukhin76

- TBolts4

If extra skater was up still it would show you.

Gudas has better possession numbers then Carle.
- Artyukhin76

Yeah, so Yzerman went out and acquired 2 top 4 d-man this offseason b/c Gudas was perfectly placed in the top 4? Ummm, yeah not so much. Look, this isn't a slight against Gudas but long-term his best position is bottom pair, or put better on a Stanley Cup contender his best position is on the bottom pair. Maybe if he can improve his skating he can graduate to a 2nd pairing but he is NOT READY for top 4 minutes, experience wise or talent wise. As it was last year he was playing top 4 minutes (as was a below-average Salo) and the trickle down effect on the rest of the defense from Carle and Hedman to the bottom pair was evident. Thus Yzerman went out and got 2 top 4 d-man this offseason.

Again, I'm not trying to sugar-coat what Carle is. He's a solid top 4 d-man who is AT HIS BEST WHEN PAIRED CORRECTLY. No he doesn't need someone to "carry" him, however he is not able to carry a pairing either. Again, as I said before. He wasn't signed to be a top pairing carry the defense type of d-man. He was signed to be a cog in a solid top to bottom top 4 defense. Sure he falls closer to the bottom of the top 4 when looking at each individual piece, but honestly when it comes to putting a defense together it is all about the best fits and the best chemistry not necessarily about the best 2 defenseman on the top pair and the next best 2 on the 2nd pair.

He had a couple of issues, but I'd take him at .993 then Carle at 5.5.
- Artyukhin76

You can't compare contracts to different aged players who signed under different circumstances. Gudas is in his 2nd contract and was re-signed as an RFA. Carle was signed as a UFA. Like I pointed out before, Carle's deal is market value for defenseman of his caliber, and given the comparables I mentioned I would rather have Carle than sign a player like Amac, Streit, Gonchar, or Wideman.

I incorrectly listed Zubov for Gonchar earlier. Don't know why I got those 2 mixed up other than Zubov played for the Stars for many years but my earlier post was in reference to Gonchar not Zubov

Carle is ONLY a top four when paired with someone, WTF does that tell you?

I've seen top defensemen get owned in the same way.
- Artyukhin76

No, using your statement from earlier just switching some words. Carle can't "carry" a pairing within the top 4. He needs a solid defense first mistake-free type of guy next to him. The only players who truly "carry" pairings are true top pair guys. And guess what, those guys don't sign contracts with AAV near $5M per.

I never said I'd have him in the top four. The only reason I have Carle in the top four is because of his (frank)ing pay.
- Artyukhin76

Ok, so using this logic. Find me a UFA who has been signed the past few years for a contract similar to Carle who you would call an upgrade?

Also using this logic, regardless of pay who would you have in the top 4 (using the current roster) to replace Carle?

Carle needs others to be better, that's not a good player in my opinion. He's a complementary second pairing with the right partner. He NEVER makes others better and was a drag on Gudas.
- Artyukhin76

Ok, so using this logic. Find me a UFA who has been signed the past few years for a contract similar to Carle who you would call an upgrade?

Also using this logic, regardless of pay who would you have in the top 4 (using the current roster) to replace Carle?
- uf1910

Carle is by default a top four. That's not a good thing.

Ok, so using this logic. Find me a UFA who has been signed the past few years for a contract similar to Carle who you would call an upgrade?

Also using this logic, regardless of pay who would you have in the top 4 (using the current roster) to replace Carle?
- uf1910

Garrison

Ok, so using this logic. Find me a UFA who has been signed the past few years for a contract similar to Carle who you would call an upgrade?

Also using this logic, regardless of pay who would you have in the top 4 (using the current roster) to replace Carle?
- uf1910

Stralman.

Stralman.
- Michael_Stuart

Agreed. However, still doesn't make the Carle signing a bad one.

Stralman also doesn't "replace" Carle in the top 4, nor does Garrison. However IMO the additions of both of them should help elevate Carle's play

Garrison
- Cloud

Maybe and if he is an upgrade it is marginal at best when compared directly with carle. That being said, garrison is a similar player in that he also has deficiencies in his game and when playing in a system that emphasizes his strengths AND when paired correctly he is at his best. Torts system was not right for Garrison, that much is certain. Personally I believe the addition of Stralman and Garrison will help Carle and will further allow Hedman to take another step forward by solidifying the entire top 4 and thus relieving some pressure on Carle and giving Hedman a little more freedom without having to cover for a weak partner

Agreed. However, still doesn't make the Carle signing a bad one.

Stralman also doesn't "replace" Carle in the top 4, nor does Garrison. However IMO the additions of both of them should help elevate Carle's play
- uf1910

That's my next blog sort of.

That's my next blog sort of.
- Michael_Stuart

That's my next blog sort of.
- Michael_Stuart

Don't say too much positives about Carle, Arty's head might explode

carle sold out for his big role in 'this is 40' , been horrible ever since that movie

just kidding, hes good enough for a top 4 but in artys defense he really does need to pick up the pace a bit whether he has a new partner or not.. if he plays the way he played last year with or without gudas he will be off my list !

Don't say too much positives about Carle, Arty's head might explode
- TBolts4

Michael was pretty rough on Carle too, but won't admit it now.

Won't admit it, Arty?

I thought Carle was brutal last season.

Won't admit it, Arty?

I thought Carle was brutal last season.
- Michael_Stuart

Don't tell these (frank)ers that

Don't tell these (frank)ers that
- Artyukhin76

Carle was brutal last season, but he's also really not as bad as he was. He had no help on the defensive side. Slot him next to Stralman and I expect him to play MUCH better, more like he should play. If he has another bad year, I'll swallow my pride and accept that, ugh, Arty was right.