it's bena few years. plus I think even with Tocchet he broke 20 goals or 40 points a grand total one 1 time. It was early in his career, too.

Downie used to be effective, but he's lost most of his wheels, and I just don't think even when he is playing well that he makes up for his boneheadedness
- Hesh_

He's toned down the cheap shots and dirty hits, but for 80%+ of last season, he just wasn't good.

only takes one moment of instability with Downie for you to regret having him, though.


and yeah, he's definitely slowed down.

No, I'm talking about Streit. Isles fans were ragging on us about how terrible he was, but he actually acquitted himself quite well. Now, as for the 3rd/4th year of that contract, that may change. But so far, he's lived up to the contract. He's a second-pair guy who will work well with a stay-at-home guy and can run a PP.

As for AMac, I think he just fit our system/mix better than the Islanders, plain and simple. Much the same way that Vinny L would fit Laviolette's system better than Berube's. You have a bias toward him, which is fine, but it's not like he's Brooks Orpik getting that deal.
- jmatchett383

Bias might be a bit misleading because that almost makes it sound like it's not warranted. Whatever works I guess? Like i've said before if you guys like him great but I just don't see it? I've watched him play quite a few games for you guys and he looks the same that's why i don't get it? I wouldn't want AMAC back for free. Our defense actually improved with his departure as any Islander fan can attest too.
As far as Streit goes like i said in my post above he was a good soldier for us. It looked like he was losing a step or three his last season. He put up some points but he was terrible defensively. Had a hard time running the PP towards the end. Couldn't keep the puck in the zone on the PP and out of our zone 5 on 5. Not something you're looking for in a defenseman but he seems to have found a niche with you guys. Like you said in a 2nd pairing role he'd be good. Term is just too long.

Bias might be a bit misleading because that almost makes it sound like it's not warranted. Whatever works I guess? Like i've said before if you guys like him great but I just don't see it? I've watched him play quite a few games for you guys and he looks the same that's why i don't get it? I wouldn't want AMAC back for free. Our defense actually improved with his departure as any Islander fan can attest too.
As far as Streit goes like i said in my post above he was a good soldier for us. It looked like he was losing a step or three his last season. He put up some points but he was terrible defensively. Had a hard time running the PP towards the end. Couldn't keep the puck in the zone on the PP and out of our zone 5 on 5. Not something you're looking for in a defenseman but he seems to have found a niche with you guys. Like you said in a 2nd pairing role he'd be good. Term is just too long.
- Cptmjl

Like I said, AMac has just been a good complimentary piece for us. Maybe the same player but just fits the mix better. He still has some obvious holes in his game, but when you compare his deal to some other guys, it's not all that outrageous (money, not term).

No, I'm talking about Streit. Isles fans were ragging on us about how terrible he was, but he actually acquitted himself quite well. Now, as for the 3rd/4th year of that contract, that may change. But so far, he's lived up to the contract. He's a second-pair guy who will work well with a stay-at-home guy and can run a PP.

As for AMac, I think he just fit our system/mix better than the Islanders, plain and simple. Much the same way that Vinny L would fit Laviolette's system better than Berube's. You have a bias toward him, which is fine, but it's not like he's Brooks Orpik getting that deal.
- jmatchett383

I wouldn’t call streit a second pairing guy. On a team with no depth he may be forced to play there, but he’s going to hurt you as often as he helps. His passing is fantastic but his foot speed has slowed down substantially and he’s never been a very physical player, so now he’s relying on stick checks and if he misses then he’s way out of position and unable to recover. On the PP he’s still a top pairing guy, at 5 on 5 he’s a bottom pair guy who needs to be sheltered to be successful.

I don’t have an issue with the dollars he got, just the term and where he’s going to be playing. Injuries happen though, and as a result some guys need to play where they’re not suited to.

Amac was a disaster with us and will be with you. Isles fans did nothing but rip him all of last year and half the year previously, we’re not jumping on this because he’s no longer an Islander. When snow offered him a 4 year deal prior to the trade with philly Isles fans were up in arms over it because we did not want him back at any price.

We’re perfectly fine ripping bad players, we’ve seen more than our share of them. They don’t magically become better going somewhere else.

I wouldn’t call streit a second pairing guy. On a team with no depth he may be forced to play there, but he’s going to hurt you as often as he helps. His passing is fantastic but his foot speed has slowed down substantially and he’s never been a very physical player, so now he’s relying on stick checks and if he misses then he’s way out of position and unable to recover. On the PP he’s still a top pairing guy, at 5 on 5 he’s a bottom pair guy who needs to be sheltered to be successful.

I don’t have an issue with the dollars he got, just the term and where he’s going to be playing. Injuries happen though, and as a result some guys need to play where they’re not suited to.

Amac was a disaster with us and will be with you. Isles fans did nothing but rip him all of last year and half the year previously, we’re not jumping on this because he’s no longer an Islander. When snow offered him a 4 year deal prior to the trade with philly Isles fans were up in arms over it because we did not want him back at any price.

We’re perfectly fine ripping bad players, we’ve seen more than our share of them. They don’t magically become better going somewhere else.
- Isles_since_6

Like I said; after a bad start, Streit acquitted himself well on both sides of the puck. He'll never be a shutdown player, and he'll have his gaffes, but he was pretty good, at least for season 1 of a 4-year deal.

As for AMac, there's a reason Snow offered him a 4-year deal and he turned it down. Fans may rip him, but he obviously has something that GMs like.

Like I said, AMac has just been a good complimentary piece for us. Maybe the same player but just fits the mix better. He still has some obvious holes in his game, but when you compare his deal to some other guys, it's not all that outrageous (money, not term).
- jmatchett383

I just look at the player and the contract. Whether some other team does it or not doesn't make it any less stupid. My colleagues do this same thing all of the time when I laugh at some of the stupid shat my team does. Doesn't make it OK

systems, coaching, and surrounding talent aren't magic. clearly some players fit better in some situations than others.

for some reason (and you wanna talk about magic) it clicked with amac paired with Schenn. I guess it gave the other one the ability to not worry about their weak spots, as they were complimentary. schenn just worried about defense, and amac could focus on rotating on offense. those two without each other were lost.

then they went from abysmal to mediocre.

Like I said; after a bad start, Streit acquitted himself well on both sides of the puck. He'll never be a shutdown player, and he'll have his gaffes, but he was pretty good, at least for season 1 of a 4-year deal.

As for AMac, there's a reason Snow offered him a 4-year deal and he turned it down. Fans may rip him, but he obviously has something that GMs like.
- jmatchett383

I believe snow offered him a deal because of our lack of depth (at least until our 8+ defensive prospects are ready to step in). Having watched all but 2 games last year, AMac was absolutely the player I did not want on the team, who caused numerous turnovers, blown assignments, lazy checking and plays even smaller than he is.

Gong show. If you follow advanced stats look up his stats. He made every single Isles defenseman substantially worse playing with him, and all of them showed large increases away from him.

I just look at the player and the contract. Whether some other team does it or not doesn't make it any less stupid. My colleagues do this same thing all of the time when I laugh at some of the stupid shat my team does. Doesn't make it OK
- Cptmjl

Right, in a vacuum, he doesn't deserve it. However, when viewed in a system, it changes the dynamic. A better fit equals better money.

Like I said; after a bad start, Streit acquitted himself well on both sides of the puck. He'll never be a shutdown player, and he'll have his gaffes, but he was pretty good, at least for season 1 of a 4-year deal.

As for AMac, there's a reason Snow offered him a 4-year deal and he turned it down. Fans may rip him, but he obviously has something that GMs like.
- jmatchett383

Well at least what Snow and Holgrem(he was still there right?)like. Look at it this way. Snow offered what was our "top minutes eating defenseman" 4million per for 4 yrs. A player that came up through our ranks and on a team who had/has one of the WORST defenses in the league. Does that make sense to you? I cringe when I think he may have accepted that

Right, in a vacuum, he doesn't deserve it. However, when viewed in a system, it changes the dynamic. A better fit equals better money.
- jmatchett383

What do you think AMAC actually is? A top 4? Not asking to be a douche just interested in your opinion.

What do you think AMAC actually is? A top 4? Not asking to be a douche just interested in your opinion.
- Cptmjl

A top 4 in the right system. The Islanders tried to make him a top-pair player, and that was asking way too much of him. That's a recipe for disaster right there.

Well at least what Snow and Holgrem(he was still there right?)like. Look at it this way. Snow offered what was our "top minutes eating defenseman" 4million per for 4 yrs. A player that came up through our ranks and on a team who had/has one of the WORST defenses in the league. Does that make sense to you? I cringe when I think he may have accepted that
- Cptmjl

Holmgren made that deal.

However, he's no longer in charge of personnel. He's more off-ice, now. He's got Luukko's job since Luukko's health issues forced his hand to step down.

I think in the right system amac has the potential to be a 4. not a top 2. shouldn't be your 3rd best, but if you compliment him, he COULD be your 4th best


or he could completely fall to pieces this season. won't look past the potential for that.

A top 4 in the right system. The Islanders tried to make him a top-pair player, and that was asking way too much of him. That's a recipe for disaster right there.
- jmatchett383

I completely agree with this but some Islander fans took this debate to another level saying if he logged less minutes and got more adequate assignments he'd be an OK 5/6. My answer was the guy sucked in the first 3 minutes of the game and thereafter. . I've never seen a player get muscled off the puck easier than AMAC. I honestly dont remember him ever winning a battle in front of the net. It was a problem in the PO's last year against the Rangers for you guys. Blown assignments, etc.. If he works for you guys this year and he finds a place that works than good for you guys and him. My point was there's a reason why islander fans were happy to see him go(even though you were originally referring to Streit
)and it's completely warranted.

I completely agree with this but some Islander fans took this debate to another level saying if he logged less minutes and got more adequate assignments he'd be an OK 5/6. My answer was the guy sucked in the first 3 minutes of the game and thereafter. . I've never seen a player get muscled off the puck easier than AMAC. I honestly dont remember him ever winning a battle in front of the net. It was a problem in the PO's last year against the Rangers for you guys. Blown assignments, etc.. If he works for you guys this year and he finds a place that works than good for you guys and him. My point was there's a reason why islander fans were happy to see him go(even though you were originally referring to Streit
)and it's completely warranted.
- Cptmjl

It's not just the TOI, it's the competition he's going up against. As for this season in the PO's, our entire D aside from Luke Schenn was putrid, and Mason actually outplayed Lundqvist on a shot-by-shot basis. He basically stole Game 4, and he almost stole Game 7. AMac's biggest problem is his lack of ability to step up on the blue line. He backs in far too often and allows shooters an extra few feet before challenging them. If he could just step up and force the player to the wall more often, he'd be far more effective and able to use his skating to his advantage because, as you noted, he's not knocking anyone bigger than Danny Briere off the puck.

i agree with you. he doesnt need 5 mil either.
- flyershockey

Hockey players also don't need 8+ mill a season yet they still take it. Money is money and people will never have enough. Pronger doesn't retire because 1) it helps Philly and 2) He gets paid to do nothing

I'd just like to apologize to Hockeybuzz, and indeed to the entire hockey world for making the totally inoffensive and random comment this morning.

Timonen. Pronger. Hatcher. Rathje.

All top-line Flyers defencemen who stopped playing in the NHL* due to injuries.

If I had known my little observation (while drinking my first coffee of the day) would have caused such chaos, I never, ever would have typed it.

Once again, my apologies. I obviously did a very, very bad thing.

Sooooo, how about that Luke Schenn?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
* which is not the same as retiring

It's not just the TOI, it's the competition he's going up against. As for this season in the PO's, our entire D aside from Luke Schenn was putrid, and Mason actually outplayed Lundqvist on a shot-by-shot basis. He basically stole Game 4, and he almost stole Game 7. AMac's biggest problem is his lack of ability to step up on the blue line. He backs in far too often and allows shooters an extra few feet before challenging them. If he could just step up and force the player to the wall more often, he'd be far more effective and able to use his skating to his advantage because, as you noted, he's not knocking anyone bigger than Danny Briere off the puck.
- jmatchett383

That's a major issue for him as he's only willing to play passive defense. Hopefully for you guys hextall makes a deal that pushes amac down your depth chart. He's just too frustrating to watch.

That's a major issue for him as he's only willing to play passive defense. Hopefully for you guys hextall makes a deal that pushes amac down your depth chart. He's just too frustrating to watch.
- Isles_since_6

He hasn't been at all bad the way you guys have said. But, he also isn't being forced to play 1st line minutes while in Philly... He is a decent defender and plays man-coverage in the D zone quite good.

He does have issues with gap-control, but those are easily correctable.

I'd just like to apologize to Hockeybuzz, and indeed to the entire hockey world for making the totally inoffensive and random comment this morning.

Timonen. Pronger. Hatcher. Rathje.

All top-line Flyers defencemen who stopped playing in the NHL* due to injuries.

If I had known my little observation (while drinking my first coffee of the day) would have caused such chaos, I never, ever would have typed it.

Once again, my apologies. I obviously did a very, very bad thing.

Sooooo, how about that Luke Schenn?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
* which is not the same as retiring
- Atomic Wedgie

Wait, what? Luke Schenn is retiring?

I'd just like to apologize to Hockeybuzz, and indeed to the entire hockey world for making the totally inoffensive and random comment this morning.

Timonen. Pronger. Hatcher. Rathje.

All top-line Flyers defencemen who stopped playing in the NHL* due to injuries.

If I had known my little observation (while drinking my first coffee of the day) would have caused such chaos, I never, ever would have typed it.

Once again, my apologies. I obviously did a very, very bad thing.

Sooooo, how about that Luke Schenn?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
* which is not the same as retiring
- Atomic Wedgie

Hatcher and Rathje have retired in the "past few years?" I wasn't going back past 2009. And Rathje was a "top-line defenseman" for them? All news to me. I guess we can add Barry Ashbee to that list as well.

Wait, what? Luke Schenn is retiring?
- BulliesPhan87

No, he just can't wait until the Flyers have a 3-goal lead with 10 minutes to go in a Game 7 so he can allow the opposition to score 4 unanswered goals.

Exactly. No way ANY play leaves millions on the table willingly besides Kovalchuk.
- rangerdanger94

Rafalski did it with detroit

Rafalski did it with detroit
- BDizzlez

Nope. His contract expired after the 2010/11 season. Pronger's still has 3 years on it.