No, they definitely have.

They started getting worse near the end of last season, then they started trading 3rd liners for 4th liners.
- BINGO!

What? The only Trade the Flyers made is Hartnell for Umberger which will be a wash. Neither player will do much. Both had about 20 goals, difference was Hartnell had Top PP minutes and played with Giroux.

That's.... ugly. Bigger names than ours, but I don't think it's actually much better. If better at all.
- BINGO!

Names mean nothing. How many "Big Names" has NJ had since Stevens retired and still played excellent D? Answer is 0

???

Zero Flyers defensemen have retired due to injury the last few years. The last two were Hatcher and Rathje.
- jmatchett383

if not for stupid CBA rules pronger would be retired, thats all the guy was saying, as well as hinting kimmo may also be forced to retire. you were a Richard in your response, because you know exactly what he meant. better?

What? The only Trade the Flyers made is Hartnell for Umberger which will be a wash. Neither player will do much. Both had about 20 goals, difference was Hartnell had Top PP minutes and played with Giroux.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

both are on the downside, but Hartnell is still a better player (and I'm not a big Hartnell guy). Harts also played with better talent, but really Umberger is not so good. Slow.


where it evens out is the length of contracts, where philly sheds their crappy contract two years before Columbus.

Names mean nothing. How many "Big Names" has NJ had since Stevens retired and still played excellent D? Answer is 0
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

on defense? very few. having forwards that play solid defense certainly helped. and a smart coach. and, y'know. marty.

if not for stupid CBA rules pronger would be retired, thats all the guy was saying, as well as hinting kimmo may also be forced to retire. you were a Richard in your response, because you know exactly what he meant. better?
- flyershockey

i don't see how he's being a Richard

I think MDZ is due for a bounceback season. Offensively, I think you will be a little unimpressed. He shoots wide more than probably any other player in the league and his home-run passing completion rate is like 5% maybe. But he's better in his own zone defensively than he's given credit for.

I think if he's put with a stay-at-home guy, his offense could rebound with your skilled and talented forwards. If he gets a little bit of confidence he will impress you a lot.

if not for stupid CBA rules pronger would be retired, thats all the guy was saying, as well as hinting kimmo may also be forced to retire. you were a Richard in your response, because you know exactly what he meant. better?
- flyershockey

Didn't Pronger get injured before the new CBA rules? And he didn't retire?

Why would he retire and leave all that money on the table?

Neither player will retire because that means forfeiting their guaranteed millions of dollars.

Didn't Pronger get injured before the new CBA rules? And he didn't retire?

Why would he retire and leave all that money on the table?

Neither player will retire because that means forfeiting their guaranteed millions of dollars.
- rangerdanger94

he didn't retire. he's collecting a check. he's LTIRed, which means he counts against the cap over the summer, but then they are alleviated of his cap hit right as the season begins. it's why they've been fitting under.

Didn't Pronger get injured before the new CBA rules? And he didn't retire?

Why would he retire and leave all that money on the table?

Neither player will retire because that means forfeiting their guaranteed millions of dollars.
- rangerdanger94

No, it's because Pronger's contract is an over-35 contract, meaning if he retires then all of a sudden his cap-hit goes back on the books.

No, it's because Pronger's contract is an over-35 contract, meaning if he retires then all of a sudden his cap-hit goes back on the books.
- BINGO!

The cap hit is on the books technically now too but it comes off since he goes on LTIR. But regardless, even if it was an under-35 contract that wouldn't go back on the books if he retired, why would he retire and surrender a few million dollars?

No, that's Calvin De Haan...after you all tell us how horrible he is and then goes on to be 15th in scoring amongst defensemen.
- jmatchett383

Dehaan has been excellent, no complaints here

he didn't retire. he's collecting a check. he's LTIRed, which means he counts against the cap over the summer, but then they are alleviated of his cap hit right as the season begins. it's why they've been fitting under.
- Hesh_

I know, but the guy I quoted said that Pronger hasn't retired because of new CBA rules when it's more because he just wants to continue collecting a check which also benefits the team in the form of cap help.

he doesn't bring the stupid that hartnell brings
- 2Real

I'll give you that, hated watching hartnell play against us though

if not for stupid CBA rules pronger would be retired, thats all the guy was saying, as well as hinting kimmo may also be forced to retire. you were a Richard in your response, because you know exactly what he meant. better?
- flyershockey

So, basically, zero have retired. That's just a fact.

Also, 2 would be the number. He made it seem like a daily occurence.

Streit-AMac-Coburn-Grossman-Schenn-Del Zotto with Mason in goal. It might be a long season in Philly.

Didn't Pronger get injured before the new CBA rules? And he didn't retire?

Why would he retire and leave all that money on the table?

Neither player will retire because that means forfeiting their guaranteed millions of dollars.
- rangerdanger94

He got injured in 11/12, before the current CBA. He has not formally retired, and that has zero to do with the over-35 rule.

Dehaan has been excellent, no complaints here
- Isles_since_6

I was referring to Isles fans laughing at the Flyers for signing Streit who went on to be top-20 in points by a defenseman last year.

Streit-AMac-Coburn-Grossman-Schenn-Del Zotto with Mason in goal. It might be a long season in Philly.
- isles10289

and as bad as it is, it's right in line with quite a few teams expected to be on the bubble.

a few of those aren't half bad.

a few aren't half good.

He got injured in 11/12, before the current CBA. He has not formally retired, and that has zero to do with the over-35 rule.
- jmatchett383

Exactly. No way ANY play leaves millions on the table willingly besides Kovalchuk.

Exactly. No way ANY play leaves millions on the table willingly besides Kovalchuk.
- rangerdanger94

Exactly. Permanent LTIR, yes. But retired, not a chance.

He got injured in 11/12, before the current CBA. He has not formally retired, and that has zero to do with the over-35 rule.
- jmatchett383

even if he wanted to retire, the flyers wouldnt let him, because the cap space is more valuable than the dollars going out the door. that has everything to do with the over 35 rule, but continue.

even if he wanted to retire, the flyers wouldnt let him, because the cap space is more valuable than the dollars going out the door. that has everything to do with the over 35 rule, but continue.
- flyershockey

But he doesn't want to retire. So the over-35 rule is moot.

But he doesn't want to retire. So the over-35 rule is moot.
- rangerdanger94

have you talked to him personally?

even if he wanted to retire, the flyers wouldnt let him, because the cap space is more valuable than the dollars going out the door. that has everything to do with the over 35 rule, but continue.
- flyershockey

Not really their call. If he wanted to retire, he'd retire.

He is owed over $5.15M over the next few years. So he could either retire and get nothing or not retire an receive that money. That has zero to do with his age and everything to do with getting paid.