The blog, like a graph when writing statistical papers or doing experimental design & analysis, needs to be named correctly. To avoid ambiguity and bumhole generalizations by retards like those present in this comments section. Terms like "duo" or "elite" should be avoided because they will need to be defined further.

Unfortunately, there are only so many characters.

The blog should've effectively been named, for instance, something similar to:

"Jagr & Zajac among best in NHL in Goals For % & Shots Attempt For % with minimum of 800 mins played together in 5v5 situations, excluding pairs with 5v5 Goals For % < 40%"

I'm sure you could even do better than that, but you get the idea. Good luck fitting all that into the title.

You could’ve gone with “Statistical Analysis of Jagr & Zajac” and left out “elite”. This may have spared you some of the absurd comments.

People who try to de-value advanced analytics tend to be retarded or lack the context to apply them in, which as I mentioned is seldom a "catch-all" analysis.

They're relevant only to the parameters expressed.

EDIT: I don't know of anyone in the advanced statistics community that is so naive to suggest they're the complete picture, but they're very useful when used properly and when the analysis is done with specificity. The audience also needs to be knowledgeable or made aware of the context, but good luck getting an intelligent crowd on any public message board.
- FLdevilsFAN

I wish all posts about advanced stats were this amusing.

I don't think anyone's bashing advanced stats all that much.

It seems more like people are bashing advanced stats when applied in poor context.

Behold, the power of Yellow Journalism.

I don't think anyone's bashing advanced stats all that much.

It seems more like people are bashing advanced stats when applied in poor context.

Behold, the power of Yellow Journalism.
- njdevils350

I'd hesitate to say "yellow journalism" because it suggests Todd is being purposefully misleading. I don't think that's the case.

I think, as you mentioned, it's misleading statistical analysis because of poor context in the title of the blog. Plus, half these people probably didn't even read the blog & just saw "Zajac Jagr blah blah Elite" and decided to troll.

I'd hesitate to say "yellow journalism" because it suggests Todd is being purposefully misleading. I don't think that's the case.

I think, as you mentioned, it's misleading statistical analysis because of poor context in the title of the blog. Plus, half these people probably didn't even read the blog & just saw "Zajac Jagr blah blah Elite" and decided to troll.
- FLdevilsFAN

I agree. I'd also suggest that some of the percentages are out of context. 5-6% is perhaps a very large gap. Also, lack of shots for in terms of dynamic players, really isn't as much of a negative as some people would like believe.

One day they'll figure out a way to come up with a "quality shot" paramter.

And yes, you're right. Yellow Journalism may have been a tad harsh. I think he sometimes tends to lean towards the home side without even realizing it.

I kindly disagree that they are the best duo. Ill take almost any other duo than them. Devils are old, slow and just really bad. Nice try though. Have fun losing this year

This was my exact point. This chart does not prove anything about them being elite because it does not compare them against the actual elite duos in that category. It simply proves they have the best possession stats as a duo compared to 8 other duos he hand picked that all played on bad defensive teams.

It's the misuse of advanced stats like this that gives it such a bad reputation among the "haters".
- RAGSareDANGERus

I didn't read all of the comments. But I agree with your assessment of picking and choosing players.

I agree. I'd also suggest that some of the percentages are out of context. 5-6% is perhaps a very large gap. Also, lack of shots for in terms of dynamic players, really isn't as much of a negative as some people would like believe.

One day they'll figure out a way to come up with a "quality shot" paramter.

And yes, you're right. Yellow Journalism may have been a tad harsh. I think he sometimes tends to lean towards the home side without even realizing it.
- njdevils350

A quality shot % would be key! That would heavily play into the validity of other advanced stats. There is a huge difference between a shot into the goalie's pads and a real chance at scoring, especially during 5 so play.

A quality shot % would be key! That would heavily play into the validity of other advanced stats. There is a huge difference between a shot into the goalie's pads and a real chance at scoring, especially during 5 so play.
- TRDevil

Exactly. And guys like Crosby, Seguin, Getzlaf, Perry etc....they really don't waste too many chances throwing the puck into a goalies pads. They're so good that when the get chances they tend to make them count.

I also think the shots for% tends to inflate stats for some defenseman. Sometimes the play develops in such a way that they might as well throw a shot harmlessly towards the net.

A quality shot % would be key! That would heavily play into the validity of other advanced stats. There is a huge difference between a shot into the goalie's pads and a real chance at scoring, especially during 5 so play.
- TRDevil

I agree with this point.

In fact GM's and number guys are trying to figure in the opponents shooting% and how they relate or if they relate at all in a players defensive abilities.

For instance, in the past there was an assumption that if a goalie has a better save % with certain forwards then others that it was a fluke and that eventually the numbers will even out.

I don't get how with these advance stats that people don't seem to get that if you have good two way forwards and d on the ice, opposing players are going to take shots that are less likely to be of quality.

Bergeron as an example, when he was on the ice the opponents had a lower shooting % then when he wasn't on the ice.
I bet, Toews, Kopitar, O'Reily, etc, all would show the same because when you are trying to put the puck on net with your stick constantly lifted, hooked, or slashed......with in reason as these players have mastered combined with there back checking and tenacity, you are not going to have as good a scoring chance then say Seguin or Malkin, or best example, OVI.

Exactly. And guys like Crosby, Seguin, Getzlaf, Perry etc....they really don't waste too many chances throwing the puck into a goalies pads. They're so good that when the get chances they tend to make them count.

I also think the shots for% tends to inflate stats for some defenseman. Sometimes the play develops in such a way that they might as well throw a shot harmlessly towards the net.
- njdevils350

Unless they are playing against forwards that excel at d as much as those named players excel in offense.

Was making that point but you posted before.

Which is why I do not understand how if we can get how many shots, missed shots, goals, blocked shots, how the hell do we not know head to head Corsi yet.

Head-to-head corsi would change hockey in many ways! Like pitchers head to head against batters.

A quality shot % would be key! That would heavily play into the validity of other advanced stats. There is a huge difference between a shot into the goalie's pads and a real chance at scoring, especially during 5 so play.
- TRDevil

5vs5 - Sorry, auto correct.

Unless they are playing against forwards that excel at d as much as those named players excel in offense.

Was making that point but you posted before.

Which is why I do not understand how if we can get how many shots, missed shots, goals, blocked shots, how the hell do we not know head to head Corsi yet.

Head-to-head corsi would change hockey in many ways! Like pitchers head to head against batters.
- JIwasinskiJr

Unfortunately, I think part of the reason that they don't have that yet is because a lot of people don't pay attention to the little details that make great defensive forwards. Back checking, ability to turn on a dime, constantly having an active, moving stick but somehow never using it illegally....it's hard for a lot of people to grasp the kind of effect that has because so often it's away from the play.

For example, months went by around here before anyone had a problem with Damian Brunner standing still and waving his stick with his wrist to feign some effort at disrupting the man that was his responsibility.

"He can score some goals," They said.

Sometimes that is all that people can see.

I agree though, a head to head comparison would go a long way toward refining what is a clearly imperfect system. It would also give the guys like Bergeron, Datsyuk, and Toews some well deserved notoriety.

Thanks Todd I just spit beer all over myself

Unfortunately, I think part of the reason that they don't have that yet is because a lot of people don't pay attention to the little details that make great defensive forwards. Back checking, ability to turn on a dime, constantly having an active, moving stick but somehow never using it illegally....it's hard for a lot of people to grasp the kind of effect that has because so often it's away from the play.

For example, months went by around here before anyone had a problem with Damian Brunner standing still and waving his stick with his wrist to feign some effort at disrupting the man that was his responsibility.

"He can score some goals," They said.

Sometimes that is all that people can see.

I agree though, a head to head comparison would go a long way toward refining what is a clearly imperfect system. It would also give the guys like Bergeron, Datsyuk, and Toews some well deserved notoriety.
- njdevils350

Excellent points. I agree completely.

God, that was like 20 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.

I think what we can all take away from this is, that Todd was a little unclear and people can't read(ie. the internet)

Its a devils blog are you surprised he picked stats that devils fans might find interesting ? Everything he has written has been interesting little things about devils players and some of their strong areas none of us are going into other teams blogs and going he zajac and jagr are better players then Crosby and whoever its just some neat information for fans of the devils to chew on I honestly don't get why every fan of every team has come in and crapped all over our team for the last week its getting (frank)ing old and extremely boring as maybe five of the hundreds of you will step up and admitted you where wrong if the devils have a great year this season

Its a devils blog are you surprised he picked stats that devils fans might find interesting ? Everything he has written has been interesting little things about devils players and some of their strong areas none of us are going into other teams blogs and going he zajac and jagr are better players then Crosby and whoever its just some neat information for fans of the devils to chew on I honestly don't get why every fan of every team has come in and crapped all over our team for the last week its getting (frank)ing old and extremely boring as maybe five of the hundreds of you will step up and admitted you where wrong if the devils have a great year this season
- blizzzard

Because its the offseason and they are trolls and that's what they do. From the reading and comprehension skills exhibited by a lot of the ones who feel the need to 'enlighten' us as to 'how it is' they are teenagers or adult adolescents in between video games. I'm sure most of their moms were pissed when she got home from work and they didn't clean up their rooms like they were supposed to. At the end of the day, they and even us can say whatever and it means (frank) all. It is what the boys can do on the ice that matters and there are a lot of things that could go really right or really wrong for any of our teams between now and playoff time so the main purpose of the banter here is to just pass time until we have something worthwhile to converse. I don't take it personally they are just as bored as we are.

Because its the offseason and they are trolls and that's what they do. From the reading and comprehension skills exhibited by a lot of the ones who feel the need to 'enlighten' us as to 'how it is' they are teenagers or adult adolescents in between video games. I'm sure most of their moms were pissed when she got home from work and they didn't clean up their rooms like they were supposed to. At the end of the day, they and even us can say whatever and it means (frank) all. It is what the boys can do on the ice that matters and there are a lot of things that could go really right or really wrong for any of our teams between now and playoff time so the main purpose of the banter here is to just pass time until we have something worthwhile to converse. I don't take it personally they are just as bored as we are.
- TRDevil

I get that and no one has to believe we will be good but say your part and move along. Somebody anybody be the bigger person and change the subject I would love to talk about what's going on with gelinas and Carter also what's going on with our extra players as we aren't the only team who needs to make a trade it seems Toronto is in the same boat with to many forwards so will there be a market for any of these guys ? I also think matteau at 6'2 220 might make the team to add some muscle to the team he isn't exactly a face puncher but he can finish a check and more then likely hold his own in a brawl I am actually starting to wonder if carter is having concussion issues after getting knocked silly by foligno I know he came back and finished the year but something might be lingering ?

Well that was a fun read. Can't wait to see what today brings