the anti-science crowd is pretty funny. it's fine if you don't understand the stats but don't be all like hurr durr about it.

Congratulations on having those categorically elite players

Why don't you look at this list and see that one of Zajac or Jagr don't even crack this GF% list until 58. Are they still elite in that category?
http://stats.hockeyanalys...als&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

Edit: Zajac is rank 202 on the list. Totally elite
- RAGSareDANGERus

now you are bringing individual stats into a conversation of a duo working together. i never once said either one is elite. learn to read and comprehend. i actually said neither one is an elite player, but together, are high on one category.

the anti-science crowd is pretty funny. it's fine if you don't understand the stats but don't be all like hurr durr about it.
- MrToast

I'm curious how you would scientifically prove that Zajac's 48 points is considered elite and comparable to Crosby's 104 points?

Congratulations on having those categorically elite players

Why don't you look at this list and see that one of Zajac or Jagr don't even crack this GF% list until 58. Are they still elite in that category?
http://stats.hockeyanalys...als&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

Edit: Zajac is rank 202 on the list. Totally elite
- RAGSareDANGERus

You are supposed to filter the results so that Zajac is "elite"

I'm curious how you would scientifically prove that Zajac's 48 points is considered elite and comparable to Crosby's 104 points?
- RAGSareDANGERus

At no point did anyone say Zajac is an elite player. Learn to read and comprehend. No one in their right mind would take Zajac over Crosby. It's one small statistic about 2 players working together on the ice. It can't really be that hard to understand can it?

With Cammalleri set to become the new 3rd wheel, there's reason to believe that Zajac MIGHT break 50 points.

At no point did anyone say Zajac is an elite player. Learn to read and comprehend. No one in their right mind would take Zajac over Crosby. It's one small statistic about 2 players working together on the ice. It can't really be that hard to understand can it?
- Velcro300

Well did you know that Zuccarello and Brassard are elite in duos where one player is 6'1" and the other player is 5'7"? They put up the most points in the league of a duo with those sizes. Categorically elite.

I've already stated my piece but some of you need to learn what context means.

No one said Zajac is elite.

Zajac & Jagr are an elite duo (in the statistical context Todd eludes to in his blog).

This is the problem when people who took one liberal arts related statistics class in college think they know everything.

You are supposed to filter the results so that Zajac is "elite"
- Feds91Stammer

Oh yea something about QoC or zone starts or something?

That duo scored 60% out of 100% of the time while on the ice (goal differential). When they both were on the ice together, out of 100%, they scored 60% of the time. Hence why in terms of goal differential they were considered elite in the one category. They in no way are Elite, but in that category they are elite. That means for every 10 goals scored while they are on the ice, 6 or 60% is for, while 4 or 40% is against. That to me is an elite level. Not saying they are Elite, but in that one category, they are in an elite level.


EDIT: It's one slice of a pie in a very big pie. It doesn't prove anything one way or another. Everything needs to be looked at from a distance. Zooming in this close on a stat, can, and is misleading. I am just giving you a different look on it.
- Velcro300

My point is if 2 duos have a 60% goals for and one duo is on the ice for say 200 goals and the other duo is on the ice for say 130 goals the actual goal difference is completely different. One duo would be +40 while the other duo would be +26. Percentages would say they are equal while actual production shows that one duo is significantly better than the other.

Oh yea something about QoC or zone starts or something?
- RAGSareDANGERus

Yeah and road games against divisional opponents during the week.

Yeah and road games against divisional opponents during the week.
- Feds91Stammer

Devils fans just love advanced stats because that's the only way they can spin their past couple of seasons in a "successful" light.

What a totally useless (frank)in stat.. Missed shots.....really.

Devils fans just love advanced stats because that's the only way they can spin their past couple of seasons in a "successful" light.
- RAGSareDANGERus

They did have an elite non playoff season though.

Devils fans just love advanced stats because that's the only way they can spin their past couple of seasons in a "successful" light.
- RAGSareDANGERus

Yeah, we weren't good the past few years. But you can use stats and see what we were good and bad in and try to correct those problems. We had trouble scoring goals and tried to get goal scorers in the offseason. Our goaltending was bad so we got rid of Brodeur o Schneider could play. The idea is that we had some positive areas and some bad areas that can be shown through advanced statistics.

ITT Rangers fans defend snake oil as a cure for their stupidity.

Like, I'm not good at math or anything but you guys don't have to be retarded about it. Nobody argues against sabremetrics anymore so why can't people believe that it would happen in hockey?

They did have an elite non playoff season though.
- Feds91Stammer

The only reason they didn't make the playoffs is because Brodeur only earned them points at a rate of 44 points for every 39 games he played. If only he could've earned them at Schneider's rate of 44 points in every 43 games.

Oh wait...well how about Zajac and Jagr's elite production carrying them to a few shootout victories? Nope....

"We would've made the playoffs if we won just 5 of our 13 shootouts!!" Yea well you wouldn't have been even close to the playoffs if you didn't lose 18 friggin games in OT.

Rangers fans still butthurt over losing the final I see

Yeah, we weren't good the past few years. But you can use stats and see what we were good and bad in and try to correct those problems. We had trouble scoring goals and tried to get goal scorers in the offseason. Our goaltending was bad so we got rid of Brodeur o Schneider could play. The idea is that we had some positive areas and some bad areas that can be shown through advanced statistics.

ITT Rangers fans defend snake oil as a cure for their stupidity.

Like, I'm not good at math or anything but you guys don't have to be retarded about it. Nobody argues against sabremetrics anymore so why can't people believe that it would happen in hockey?
- MrToast

The advanced stats, to me, show that the Devils are a very well coached team that play a system that fits their lineup and gives them a chance to compete. They do not show me that the Jagr - Zajac duo is elite.

The only reason they didn't make the playoffs is because Brodeur only earned them points at a rate of 44 points for every 39 games he played. If only he could've earned them at Schneider's rate of 44 points in every 43 games.

Oh wait...well how about Zajac and Jagr's elite production carrying them to a few shootout victories? Nope....

"We would've made the playoffs if we won just 5 of our 13 shootouts!!" Yea well you would've have been even close to the playoffs if you didn't lose 18 friggin games in OT.
- RAGSareDANGERus

What were the Devils corsi numbers like during those shootouts?

The advanced stats, to me, show that the Devils are a very well coached team that play a system that fits their lineup and gives them a chance to compete. It does not show me that the Jagr - Zajac duo is elite.
- RAGSareDANGERus

yes, jagr and zajac didn't produce points wise in a way that the other duos on the list did but they did do things that are similar which is promising. Nobody is saying that Zajac is Crosby but the idea that he can have similar possession stats as the best player in the league means that he's doing something right. It evidence in Zajac+Jagr 5v5 goal for% in which it's lower than the more offensive players but they have great possession stats. Not elite offensive talents but elite puck possessors which is important to winning as seen as the top playoff teams and cup winners have all been possession based teams.

It's fine if people don't think the Devils will make the playoffs. Just, the hypothetical is that if we had another goal scorer we could have scored the few more goals it takes to turn some of these overtime loses into wins. That's all. I don't think anybody is claiming, Todd included, that the Devils are going to be the best team in the league now that we've added some goal scoring and should have more stable goaltending. Just that the Devils should be considered for the playoffs rather than discarded from the get go. And part of that reasoning can be done with advanced statistics.

What were the Devils corsi numbers like during those shootouts?
- Feds91Stammer

having fun slapping your hands on your keyboard?

yes, jagr and zajac didn't produce points wise in a way that the other duos on the list did but they did do things that are similar which is promising. Nobody is saying that Zajac is Crosby but the idea that he can have similar possession stats as the best player in the league means that he's doing something right. It evidence in Zajac+Jagr 5v5 goal for% in which it's lower than the more offensive players but they have great possession stats. Not elite offensive talents but elite puck possessors which is important to winning as seen as the top playoff teams and cup winners have all been possession based teams.

It's fine if people don't think the Devils will make the playoffs. Just, the hypothetical is that if we had another goal scorer we could have scored the few more goals it takes to turn some of these overtime loses into wins. That's all. I don't think anybody is claiming, Todd included, that the Devils are going to be the best team in the league now that we've added some goal scoring and should have more stable goaltending. Just that the Devils should be considered for the playoffs rather than discarded from the get go. And part of that reasoning can be done with advanced statistics.
- MrToast

But how important or useful is being an "elite GF% duo" if it results in one half of the duo scoring just 48 points? Anyone can write a blog that makes a certain player look elite in one specific category. What the hell is the point of this? This blog is just Todd trying to talk up a couple Devils players in any way he can. What a useless statistical analysis.

having fun slapping your hands on your keyboard?
- MrToast

All I'm saying is if they possessed the puck better during the shootout they would have done much better.

But how important or useful is being an "elite GF% duo" if it results in one half of the duo scoring just 48 points? Anyone can write a blog that makes a certain player look elite in one specific category. What the hell is the point of this? This blog is just Todd trying to talk up a couple Devils players in any way he can. What a useless statistical analysis.
- RAGSareDANGERus

The duo combined for 83 even strength points. That is as elite as it gets.

All I'm saying is if they possessed the puck better during the shootout they would have done much better.
- Feds91Stammer