actually my overall point is that I find it fascinating that you can't say anything negative about advanced stats these days without someone losing their minds. It's almost like it's when someone says something negative a religion or politics, people just get that horrified face.
- jimbro83

There's a difference between saying advanced stats are flawed and only show part of the picture and saying they're pointless because they didn't predict how many posts the Rangers would hit.

No I didn't. Clearly you're incapable of reading a few sentences without misinterpreting everything. I never said a word about who would win the series in my comment. I said advanced stats helped me predict LA/NYR Cup Final.
- Todd.Cordell

so, are you telling me that your fancy advanced stats predicted the Rangers would win? Because if that's the case, then seriously, time to throw them out the window

Where's the advanced stat on jokes?
- shvingter88

Cordell blogs have a -8.5% joke relative to the other bloggers.

Cordell blogs have a -8.5% joke relative to the other bloggers.
- Feds91Stammer

Well that stat should tell this likely isn't a joke, right?

so, are you telling me that your fancy advanced stats predicted the Rangers would win? Because if that's the case, then seriously, time to throw them out the window
- jimbro83

Nope he didn't say that, and most advanced stats predicted the Kings would win, which they did.

in your mind, I think you expected this diss towards me was going to be a lot more clever

try again. In fact, this is what you do. Write it down first. Come up with a couple of drafts, then type the final product here, things will be better.
- jimbro83

Nah you just love saying people say things that they didn't say....like you said I said Lundqvist was overrated when I never said that

Is he the best nope I think quick is better

God damn it I NEED hockey season to start.

Well that stat should tell this likely isn't a joke, right?
- MannySilvers

But this is a joke. You can't select stats to back up your theory/argument. You have to gather and analyze all the stats.

Cordell blogs have a -8.5% joke relative to the other bloggers.
- Feds91Stammer

Just as I suspected

Jeeze I feel like the HockeyBuzz comments threads have become like a bunch of physicists arguing over new bosons or something...

Todd Cordell: Zajac, Jagr Among NHL's Elite Duos
- Todd.Cordell

I would actually make the argument that Getzlaf, Perry Crosby, Kunitz, and Seguin, Benn are far ahead of Zajac and Jagr.

They're about 5-6% higher as far as 5/5 goals scored. Which is a lot in context. their shots for percentage is lower. I would opine that you are misinterpreting that in this particular instance.

The decrease in shots for by those three elite combinations shows thier incredible skill level.

They don't take shots for the sake of taking shots. They dominate the flow of play until a great opportunity presents itself. They all have the vision, strength, and patience to wait for it.

Not something that can be taught.

I would actually make the argument that Getzlaf, Perry Crosby, Kunitz, and Seguin, Benn are far ahead of Zajac and Jagr.

They're about 5-6% higher as far as 5/5 goals scored. Which is a lot in context. their shots for percentage is lower. I would opine that you are misinterpreting that in this particular instance.

The decrease in shots for by those three elite combinations shows thier incredible skill level.

They don't take shots for the sake of taking shots. They dominate the flow of play until a great opportunity presents itself. They all have the vision, strength, and patience to wait for it.

Not something that can be taught.
- njdevils350

The stats provided are very flawed as they are provided only as percentages and not as actual production.

There's a difference between saying advanced stats are flawed and only show part of the picture and saying they're pointless because they didn't predict how many posts the Rangers would hit.
- MannySilvers

I think that Jimbo's point is your agruement is flawed. When I think of great duo's Jagr and Zajac don't crack the top 32. I don't care what corsi says.

What these stats show, is the ability to shut down opposing teams lines, and generate offense. If Zajac/Jagr are scoring 60% and being scored on 40%, that is a big difference. Forget the total amount of goals scored, it's how many they score relative to goals surrendered. That is what makes them in the "elite" category used. They are obviously not elite in the sense of the number of goals in the net or individual skill but the relative goals for verses goals against is in the elite category. By Todd saying the Devils also adding a top 10 5v5 scorer in Cami those numbers should also increase in theory. Obviously you can't truly calculate chemistry, team playing style, etc but we are going purely off of numbers. Again, I could be wrong in that assessment, but that is what I gathered from it.

If advanced stats "prove" that Zajac's 48 points last year are considered elite production then wow...him and Jagr's "elite" scoring tandem carried you guys all the way to 27th in the league in goals for! Yay advanced stats! Didn't realize they found a way to "possess" the puck into the net?

If advanced stats "prove" that Zajac's 48 points last year are considered elite production then wow...him and Jagr's "elite" scoring tandem carried you guys all the way to 27th in the league in goals for! Yay advanced stats! Didn't realize they found a way to "possess" the puck into the net?
- RAGSareDANGERus

Corsi wins games.

After having read through some of this, I'd like to point out two things.

1. The Kings were dead and buried against the Sharks.

2. The Rangers were dead and buried against the Pens.

Then the goalies got hot.

They both couldve been easily eliminated early on.

Advanced stats do have some value. Pure knowledge of the game, and intelligence used to conduct the "eye test" (as someone put it) is valuable. Neither is completely without its flaws. The answer to total objectivity is somewhere in the middle.

Total objectivity is one of the best ways to improve both your knowledge and editorial view points on specific subjects.

The advice I would give to any Devils fan (or any fan of any team) to help them become more objective (and therefore learn a little bit more) is to find something they dislike about every player.

Nothing's perfect.

Yeah, ignore 0-13 in shootouts and missing by five points and Brodeur's .901SV%. Just blame the advanced stats because one of, like, the top 13 possession teams missed the playoffs.

What if I told you I had a NYR/LA final predicted before the playoffs in part because of the advanced stats?
- Todd.Cordell

I understand that Schneider completely outplayed Brodeur last year but you still can't put any blame on Brodeur for not making the playoffs. He earned the Devils the SAME number of points as Schneider did in LESS games played.

And while you call people out for "ignoring" that you went 0-13 in shootouts, you fail to acknowledge that going 0-13 in those shootouts still earned you 13 points in games you LOST. Add up all your OT losses and you got an additional 18 points for LOSING which was the most in the league by any team. Your win-loss record was actually 35-47.

How again do the stats say that the Devils should've made the playoffs with a little bit of "luck"?

so, are you telling me that your fancy advanced stats predicted the Rangers would win? Because if that's the case, then seriously, time to throw them out the window
- jimbro83

I love when people call them "fancy stats", just shows the person doesn't know anything about them.

What these stats show, is the ability to shut down opposing teams lines, and generate offense. If Zajac/Jagr are scoring 60% and being scored on 40%, that is a big difference. Forget the total amount of goals scored, it's how many they score relative to goals surrendered. That is what makes them in the "elite" category used. They are obviously not elite in the sense of the number of goals in the net or individual skill but the relative goals for verses goals against is in the elite category. By Todd saying the Devils also adding a top 10 5v5 scorer in Cami those numbers should also increase in theory. Obviously you can't truly calculate chemistry, team playing style, etc but we are going purely off of numbers. Again, I could be wrong in that assessment, but that is what I gathered from it.
- Velcro300

50% of 100 and 50% of 60 are very different numbers. Total goal differential numbers should be looked at. Not just some percentages that back up an awful theory. I played in as many playoff games last season as this "elite" duo.

After having read through some of this, I'd like to point out two things.

1. The Kings were dead and buried against the Sharks.

2. The Rangers were dead and buried against the Pens.

Then the goalies got hot.

They both couldve been easily eliminated early on.

Advanced stats do have some value. Pure knowledge of the game, and intelligence used to conduct the "eye test" (as someone put it) is valuable. Neither is completely without its flaws. The answer to total objectivity is somewhere in the middle.

Total objectivity is one of the best ways to improve both your knowledge and editorial view points on specific subjects.

The advice I would give to any Devils fan (or any fan of any team) to help them become more objective (and therefore learn a little bit more) is to find something they dislike about every player.

Nothing's perfect.
- njdevils350

I don't think anyone with half a brain would completely dismiss advanced stats. They obviously have their place as just one piece of the puzzle. But seemingly 75% of every blog or article posted judges a player SOLELY on Corsi. Todd here raves about how elite Jagr and Zajac's production are in terms of percentages and even goes so far as to infer that they're better than some of the best and most explosive tandems in the league but completely ignores GOALS, ASSISTS, and POINTS??

Todd has written like 4 or 5 blogs in a row about Columbus' free agent signings saying it's either a good signing or a poor one based JUST on the player's Corsi rating.

Some clown reporter on Twitter pooped on the Brassard signing and raved about how great the Pouliot signing is because of their Corsis. Yea...let's totally ignore that Pouliot got paid $20 million based on a 36 point season which is his career high and call his signing the steal of the summer because his Corsi relative is like 3%.

I don't think anyone with half a brain would completely dismiss advanced stats. They obviously have their place as just one piece of the puzzle. But seemingly 75% of every blog or article posted judges a player SOLELY on Corsi. Todd here raves about how elite Jagr and Zajac's production are in terms of percentages and even goes so far as to infer that they're better than some of the best and most explosive tandems in the league but completely ignores GOALS, ASSISTS, and POINTS??

Todd has written like 4 or 5 blogs in a row about Columbus' free agent signings saying it's either a good signing or a poor one based JUST on the player's Corsi rating.

Some clown reporter on Twitter pooped on the Brassard signing and raved about how great the Pouliot signing is because of their Corsis. Yea...let's totally ignore that Pouliot got paid $20 million based on a 36 point season which is his career high and call his signing the steal of the summer because his Corsi relative is like 3%.
- RAGSareDANGERus

I agree with you.

The first thing that I thought when I read the chart on this blog was that it was way, way out of context.

50% of 100 and 50% of 60 are very different numbers. Total goal differential numbers should be looked at. Not just some percentages that back up an awful theory. I played in as many playoff games last season as this "elite" duo.
- Feds91Stammer

That duo scored 60% out of 100% of the time while on the ice (goal differential). When they both were on the ice together, out of 100%, they scored 60% of the time. Hence why in terms of goal differential they were considered elite in the one category. They in no way are Elite, but in that category they are elite. That means for every 10 goals scored while they are on the ice, 6 or 60% is for, while 4 or 40% is against. That to me is an elite level. Not saying they are Elite, but in that one category, they are in an elite level.


EDIT: It's one slice of a pie in a very big pie. It doesn't prove anything one way or another. Everything needs to be looked at from a distance. Zooming in this close on a stat, can, and is misleading. I am just giving you a different look on it.

That duo scored 60% out of 100% of the time while on the ice (goal differential). When they both were on the ice together, out of 100%, they scored 60% of the time. Hence why in terms of goal differential they were considered elite in the one category. They in no way are Elite, but in that category they are elite. That means for every 10 goals scored while they are on the ice, 6 or 60% is for, while 4 or 40% is against. That to me is an elite level. Not saying they are Elite, but in that one category, they are in an elite level.
- Velcro300

Congratulations on having those categorically elite players

Why don't you look at this list and see that one of Zajac or Jagr don't even crack this GF% list until 58. Are they still elite in that category?
http://stats.hockeyanalys...als&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

Edit: Zajac is rank 202 on the list. Totally elite

Congratulations on having those categorically elite players
- RAGSareDANGERus

Re-read..I just edited my post.