Canadians would travel here for the games . Tailgating is not a welcome activity in Ontario
- Maximum Signal

They probably would. They would also go to that one game a year in Toronto if they had to. It's about all about the quality of the product. There are plenty of other NFL markets where tailgating isn't the institution it is here, or other places such as Green Bay, and they draw just fine. Toronto fans didn't pass on buying tickets because they hated the NFL or because they couldn't tailgate. They passed on buying tickets because the league tried to force a less than mediocre product down their throats.

Toronto is no different than any American sports city. If you put a winner there, people will come watch. Winning is how fans are made, and traditions are born.

The reason why the Bills struggled to get fans up there is because the team has been a joke since 1999. The Blue Jays struggle with their fanbase because they haven't made the playoffs since they won the World Series in 1993. If these teams were really good teams, not just okay teams, but perennial contenders, Toronto fans would shell out as much money as any other major sports market.
- buffalofan19

It is though. You put a last place hockey product on the ice in Toronto, you'll sell out. You put a good (not great but good) product in baseball, basketball or Football nobody here will give it a second thought.

The Bluejays have had good moments where the team has been a contender or at least an 85 win ball club, but this cities version of being all in for baseball is filling half the rogers centre vs the yankees. Yet Detroit managed to bring in 35,000 plus for an afternoon game on a tuesday.

To your last point,

My original post was a laugh towards the comment on the feasibility study. It doesn't take a study to realize that nobody here is going to support an NFL team unless it's an incredible team, yet Buffalo seems to do fine supporting the seemingly always 6-10 Bills.

If the Bills went 6-10 here, combined with the stadium costs, they'd be relocated 5 years later.

Biggest problem up is there is Toronto taxpayers want no part of paying for a billion dollar Stadium . That is needed as Skydome does not meet NFL capacity rules as a regular home for a team
- Maximum Signal

Agreed.

My parents live in an area where Rogers had floated the idea of an outdoor stadium for the jays to them and the other area representatives to test the waters so to speak.

I'll give you 100 guesses how that meeting went.

It is though. You put a last place hockey product on the ice in Toronto, you'll sell out. You put a good (not great but good) product in baseball, basketball or Football nobody here will give it a second thought.

The Bluejays have had good moments where the team has been a contender or at least an 85 win ball club, but this cities version of being all in for baseball is filling half the rogers centre vs the yankees. Yet Detroit managed to bring in 35,000 plus for an afternoon game on a tuesday.

To your last point,

My original post was a laugh towards the comment on the feasibility study. It doesn't take a study to realize that nobody here is going to support an NFL team unless it's an incredible team, yet Buffalo seems to do fine supporting the seemingly always 6-10 Bills.

If the Bills went 6-10 here, combined with the stadium costs, they'd be relocated 5 years later.
- Sabresfan-365

Yes, but the Maple Leafs popularity was largely garnered by winning, albeit a long time ago. That's how the tradition was born, and that's why it's popular today. Will the NFL, NBA, or MLB ever grow to be as popular as the NHL in Toronto? No. However, as the Raptors proved this year, it can still be more than adequate if you serve up a competent product. If the Raptors keep making the playoffs, and even advance a couple rounds every year, the ACC will sell out every night, just like the LA Kings have sold out 200 plus straight games at Staples Center. However, if it's a one-year fluke, and they go back to the bottom of the standings, then they won't show up. There's definitely a "fair weather" element to it, but sports teams become popular by winning, nothing else, even if that winning happened a long time ago. Look at most of the major college sports. Teams like Michigan and Tennessee have been okay to terrible for well over a decade now, but they still sell out? Why? Because they have a Championship tradition.

And to your Tigers point. Do you think that happens this time a decade ago when they were at the bottom of the standings? No way. Fans are showing up because they are contenders. They're a perennial playoff team, with some absolute all-stars, and have made it to the World Series very recently. The Blue Jays haven't been that in 20 years. That's why nobody shows up in the afternoon. People have better things to do than to take off work to watch the hometown team crap the bed more often than not.

Finally, that "feasibility study" was largely done about a stadium, and was done 18 months ago, before the Bills signed their new lease, which put all sorts of landmines in to guard against relocation. That's not to say it absolutely couldn't be done, but any study made back then would be irrelevant because there is a whole new set of factors at play.

Yes, but the Maple Leafs popularity was largely garnered by winning, albeit a long time ago. That's how the tradition was born, and that's why it's popular today. Will the NFL, NBA, or MLB ever grow to be as popular as the NHL in Toronto? No. However, as the Raptors proved this year, it can still be more than adequate if you serve up a competent product. If the Raptors keep making the playoffs, and even advance a couple rounds every year, the ACC will sell out every night, just like the LA Kings have sold out 200 plus straight games at Staples Center. However, if it's a one-year fluke, and they go back to the bottom of the standings, then they won't show up. There's definitely a "fair weather" element to it, but sports teams become popular by winning, nothing else, even if that winning happened a long time ago. Look at most of the major college sports. Teams like Michigan and Tennessee have been okay to terrible for well over a decade now, but they still sell out? Why? Because they have a Championship tradition.

That "feasibility study" was largely done about a stadium, and was done 18 months ago, before the Bills signed their new lease, which put all sorts of landmines in to guard against relocation. That's not to say it absolutely couldn't be done, but any study made back then would be irrelevant because there is a whole new set of factors at play.
- buffalofan19

I don't think this is true. I get that it plays a major role but consider the following teams:

The Senators have never won it all as an NHL team, yet they continue to find themselves in the top 10 in NHL attendance

The Texas Rangers have never won the world series and are complete trash this year, their attendance blows Toronto's out of the water

Toronto FC, the soccer team that up until this year was complete trash has a massive waiting list for its season tickets and constantly puts up big attendance numbers.

I think it really boils down to the culture. People in Canada (more specifically Toronto i guess) will follow two sports blindly, Hockey and Soccer. The former has been a part of this countries culture for decades and the latter was brought over by immigrants who, unlike in the states, were not forced to immerse themselves melting pot style into american sports (no offense) but rather brought their own cultures with them (hence soccer's popularity in Toronto).

I don't disagree with your point on winning and the fan support it brings but I look it at like this. If you put every major sports team in Toronto dead last in their respective sport, only two of them are still drawing good numbers, soccer and hockey.

The same is true of a lot of major sports cities in the US in regards to Basketball, Football, or Baseball.

Yes, but the Maple Leafs popularity was largely garnered by winning, albeit a long time ago. That's how the tradition was born, and that's why it's popular today. Will the NFL, NBA, or MLB ever grow to be as popular as the NHL in Toronto? No. However, as the Raptors proved this year, it can still be more than adequate if you serve up a competent product. If the Raptors keep making the playoffs, and even advance a couple rounds every year, the ACC will sell out every night, just like the LA Kings have sold out 200 plus straight games at Staples Center. However, if it's a one-year fluke, and they go back to the bottom of the standings, then they won't show up. There's definitely a "fair weather" element to it, but sports teams become popular by winning, nothing else, even if that winning happened a long time ago. Look at most of the major college sports. Teams like Michigan and Tennessee have been okay to terrible for well over a decade now, but they still sell out? Why? Because they have a Championship tradition.

And to your Tigers point. Do you think that happens this time a decade ago when they were at the bottom of the standings? No way. Fans are showing up because they are contenders. They're a perennial playoff team, with some absolute all-stars, and have made it to the World Series very recently. The Blue Jays haven't been that in 20 years. That's why nobody shows up in the afternoon. People have better things to do than to take off work to watch the hometown team crap the bed more often than not.

Finally, that "feasibility study" was largely done about a stadium, and was done 18 months ago, before the Bills signed their new lease, which put all sorts of landmines in to guard against relocation. That's not to say it absolutely couldn't be done, but any study made back then would be irrelevant because there is a whole new set of factors at play.
- buffalofan19

Fair enough, Detroit has enjoyed recent success and it's showed in fan attendance, but that brings me back to my point about any potential success the bills would have in Toronto. They are the embodiment of mediocrity in the NFL, nobody in their right mind here is going to want to invest their tax dollars in a sport they don't really enjoy to see a team that isn't very good, nor has any championship success.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj9Ei7FGQgg

CAM NEWTON
- SABRES 89

JUSTIN BLACKMON!!

JUSTIN BLACKMON!!
- gerbe75pts

Yet another dirt bag millionaire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj9Ei7FGQgg


- buffalofan19

Talented!

you guys are using too much keyboard ink... Knock it off


Please

Yes, but the Maple Leafs popularity was largely garnered by winning, albeit a long time ago. That's how the tradition was born, and that's why it's popular today. Will the NFL, NBA, or MLB ever grow to be as popular as the NHL in Toronto? No. However, as the Raptors proved this year, it can still be more than adequate if you serve up a competent product. If the Raptors keep making the playoffs, and even advance a couple rounds every year, the ACC will sell out every night, just like the LA Kings have sold out 200 plus straight games at Staples Center. However, if it's a one-year fluke, and they go back to the bottom of the standings, then they won't show up. There's definitely a "fair weather" element to it, but sports teams become popular by winning, nothing else, even if that winning happened a long time ago. Look at most of the major college sports. Teams like Michigan and Tennessee have been okay to terrible for well over a decade now, but they still sell out? Why? Because they have a Championship tradition.

And to your Tigers point. Do you think that happens this time a decade ago when they were at the bottom of the standings? No way. Fans are showing up because they are contenders. They're a perennial playoff team, with some absolute all-stars, and have made it to the World Series very recently. The Blue Jays haven't been that in 20 years. That's why nobody shows up in the afternoon. People have better things to do than to take off work to watch the hometown team crap the bed more often than not.

Finally, that "feasibility study" was largely done about a stadium, and was done 18 months ago, before the Bills signed their new lease, which put all sorts of landmines in to guard against relocation. That's not to say it absolutely couldn't be done, but any study made back then would be irrelevant because there is a whole new set of factors at play.
- buffalofan19

You must be bored 19

You must be bored 19
- cabin

He's an accountant, this is the most fun he'll have all day

He's an accountant, this is the most fun he'll have all day
- Sabresfan-365

I'm a purchasing/sales manager. So I understand .. No numbers after 5:00
.

I'm a purchasing/sales manager. So I understand .. No numbers after 5:00
.
- cabin

I'm a dock foreman for one of the largest unionized trucking companies in the nation so, &#@$&%&*$~#&!!! And get back to work!

I'm a dock foreman for one of the largest unionized trucking companies in the nation so, &#@$&%&*$~#&!!! And get back to work!


- grand-magus

YRC ? Get my chit here undamaged and on time

YRC ? Get my chit here undamaged and on time
- cabin

Yes sir.

since there is no discussion currently going on and im sort of bored id like to start a few up if you dont mind.

1) if you had your choice of any current goalie disregarding contracts to play on your team today who would it be?

2.) im unfortunately going to bring up football because marshawn lynch is holding out and it blows my mind that the players are even allowed to do that under contract. Why cant you honor the contract you agreed to?

since there is no discussion currently going on and im sort of bored id like to start a few up if you dont mind.

1) if you had your choice of any current goalie disregarding contracts to play on your team today who would it be?

2.) im unfortunately going to bring up football because marshawn lynch is holding out and it blows my mind that the players are even allowed to do that under contract. Why cant you honor the contract you agreed to?
- gerbe42

1. Quick. I know, I know. The stats seem to not put him in the "elite" status, but the bottom line is that he wins games when he has to.

2. In principle, I agree. However, in a league like the NFL, without guaranteed contracts, I can see the argument. If they can cut you without any additional compensation, then I guess I can't get too angry when the player plays the same card.

since there is no discussion currently going on and im sort of bored id like to start a few up if you dont mind.

1) if you had your choice of any current goalie disregarding contracts to play on your team today who would it be?

2.) im unfortunately going to bring up football because marshawn lynch is holding out and it blows my mind that the players are even allowed to do that under contract. Why cant you honor the contract you agreed to?
- gerbe42

Lundqvist

And if teams (In the NFL) don't have to honor contracts then the players shouldn't be frowned upon when they don't

Edit: and especially at running back, the next year is never guaranteed. They need to get what they can when they can. They take more hits than most players, and teams don't want to pay them past 27-28 years old

1. Quick. I know, I know. The stats seem to not put him in the "elite" status, but the bottom line is that he wins games when he has to.

2. In principle, I agree. However, in a league like the NFL, without guaranteed contracts, I can see the argument. If they can cut you without any additional compensation, then I guess I can't get too angry when the player plays the same card.
- buffalofan19

1) gibson

1. Quick. I know, I know. The stats seem to not put him in the "elite" status, but the bottom line is that he wins games when he has to.

2. In principle, I agree. However, in a league like the NFL, without guaranteed contracts, I can see the argument. If they can cut you without any additional compensation, then I guess I can't get too angry when the player plays the same card.
- buffalofan19

i wasnt shocked at the quick decision at all actually. you may be shocked at mine: carey price.

Well theres a little factoid i didnt know, the league and players need to address that issue soon. As much of a garage league that the nhl is their contract situation is much better

1) gibson
- GERBE!!!75PTS

that high on him? he is at the tender age of 21 but a name like hackett comes to mind when someone has played so little games and looks great. Not that hackett couldnt be a starter one day

that high on him? he is at the tender age of 21 but a name like hackett comes to mine when someone has played so little games and looks great. Not that hackett couldnt be a starter one day
- gerbe42

to think we could of had him kinda makes me sad for miller maybe if we added
A little more he be ours

to think we could of had him kinda makes me sad for miller maybe of we added
A little more he be ours
- GERBE!!!75PTS

did you know of a trade that didnt happen?? what were the other names involved?