In a statement posted on his website, Ukraine's president Petro Poroshenko said: "We do not exclude that the plane was shot down and confirm that the Ukraine Armed Forces did not fire at any targets in the sky."

Oh, they didn't fire at any targets in the sky, the missile just missed.
- 1970vintage

Think he's blaming the other side there.

Think he's blaming the other side there.
- AlexF

Probably, but he also didn't say that they didn't shoot it down accidentally

No one will take credit, and no one will be able to prove that anyone else was responsible.

Probably, but he also didn't say that they didn't shoot it down accidentally

No one will take credit, and no one will be able to prove that anyone else was responsible.
- 1970vintage

The Ukrainian government hasn't been shooting anything out of the sky, the separatists have apparently downed 2 planes already this week (not including this one).

If they recover the blackbox and have it analyzed by an independent party it would go a long way. This whole thing reeks of Russian involvement.

Sh!t just got real for Russia and the Ukrainian separatists.
- AlexF

The only entity using surface to air ordinance is the Ukranian national guard...

Perhaps Washington finally realizes what it instigated...

The Ukrainian government hasn't been shooting anything out of the sky, the separatists have apparently downed 2 planes already this week (not including this one).

If they recover the blackbox and have it analyzed by an independent party it would go a long way. This whole thing reeks of Russian involvement.
- AlexF

I have no sympathy for Ukraine fighting insurgents who don't want to be part of a Ukraine who are themselves insurgents taking it by force from the previous government. Cudos to Russia for seizing the moment. That the US is involved in sanctioning Russia is absurd.

David Booth is a pure sniper, we should sign him to play on the second line!
- 1970vintage

Has to be a different Booth or just hunting ability?

The Ukrainian government hasn't been shooting anything out of the sky, the separatists have apparently downed 2 planes already this week (not including this one).

If they recover the blackbox and have it analyzed by an independent party it would go a long way. This whole thing reeks of Russian involvement.
- AlexF

The Separatists are using old school AA batteries, they don't have the elevation to hit a commercial airliner. Plus the plane's flight path was registered as having to enter Russia airspace days in advance. No way in hell Russia downed that plane

That's a ton of assumptions. I wasn't arguing with you over Edler's trade value, I was simply stating that your extremist comments are typically meant to elicit a response. Hence "bait". For example, your reply above is also bait, and you know it
- eternalcashflow

Yes, Vantel is a master baiter.

I have no sympathy for Ukraine fighting insurgents who don't want to be part of a Ukraine who are themselves insurgents taking it by force from the previous government. Cudos to Russia for seizing the moment. That the US is involved in sanctioning Russia is absurd.
- 1970vintage

I've got some sympathy for them. The USSR gobbled up so much of that entire portion of the world that now ethnic Russians are pretty well scattered across a number of neighboring countries.

The previous Ukrainian president was a Russian crony, he got booted. To then feel it's just fine for Russia to step in and fund a movement to peel off chunks of Ukrainian territory and claim it as their own is...interesting.

The Separatists are using old school AA batteries, they don't have the elevation to hit a commercial airliner. Plus the plane's flight path was registered as having to enter Russia airspace days in advance. No way in hell Russia downed that plane
- Whiskey-Tango

An adviser to Ukraine’s interior minister claims the rebels have "Buk" surface-to-air missile launcher, which contains a range of 72k ft.

We're in speculation mode here as the news filters in, but one thing for sure is that this separatist army is equipped with some pretty sophisticated weaponry. They didn't get it on their own.

I've got some sympathy for them. The USSR gobbled up so much of that entire portion of the world that now ethnic Russians are pretty well scattered across a number of neighboring countries.

The previous Ukrainian president was a Russian crony, he got booted. To then feel it's just fine for Russia to step in and fund a movement to peel off chunks of Ukrainian territory and claim it as their own is...interesting.
- AlexF

Ukraine was a part of Russia long before the Soviet Union came to exist, furthermore, the right to self determination is something no one outside the zone of conflict has the right to form an opinion over.

So replacing a Russian influenced president with a billionaire western oligarch is better?

Regardless of the weaponry the rebels are using, only one side has been using them against civilians...

This story is only going to degrade as reports are surfacing already that Putin was in the air, in a similar aircraft on a similar flight path as Malaysian airlines.

[quote=AlexF]An adviser to Ukraine’s interior minister claims the rebels have "Buk" surface-to-air missile launcher, which contains a range of 72k ft.

We're in speculation mode here as the news filters in, but one thing for sure is that this separatist army is equipped with some pretty sophisticated weaponry. They didn't get it on their

Perfect timing for such a remark

I blame Kaptaan.
This reeks of his intolerance.

Ukraine was a part of Russia long before the Soviet Union came to exist, furthermore, the right to self determination is something no one outside the zone of conflict has the right to form an opinion over.

So replacing a Russian influenced president with a billionaire western oligarch is better?

Regardless of the weaponry the rebels are using, only one side has been using them against civilians...

This story is only going to degrade as reports are surfacing already that Putin was in the air, in a similar aircraft on a similar flight path as Malaysian airlines.
- Whiskey-Tango

Ukrainians living under Russian rule had no country of their own until they finally gained independence. The few regions on the eastern side of Ukraine claiming to be predominantly Russian can simply walk across the border to the actual country of Russia.

Even if the rebels are victorious, like Crimea the region that gains independence will be annexed by Russia. There will be no People's Republic of Donetsk. There are still ethnic Ukrainians in those regions.

Vantel I gotta admit that you almost single-handedly drive the debate around here in the dead zone summer months. Full credit for that my friend.

To sum up my view on trading Horvat, with the set-up we have down the middle right now I simply don't see any reason to trade for yet another 2C/3C. Even if that's all Horvat might end up being, we already know that's all Eller will be. If we're dangling Horvat, it needs to be in a package for a future 1C which is something we've been lacking for a long time. Short of that, might as well stand pat.
- AlexF

It is July talk ,I do know that. Once the season starts I will be in the Cancuks corner cheering every goals

Yes, Vantel is a master baiter.
- golfingsince

I got a scholarship in master debating

Demko has a great chance of making the show one day. He was a savvy 2nd round pick for sure.

Trader Jim turned the 50th overall selection from the Garrison deal into Linden Vey...
- Jim_Robson

Thanks, I knew that but still somehow (frank)ed it up and wrote Demko.

It is July talk ,I do know that. Once the season starts I will be in the Cancuks corner cheering every goals
- VANTEL

This has been a pretty slow July for hockey content. Even by July standards.

This has been a pretty slow July for hockey content. Even by July standards.
- AlexF

I could start a buy out Daniel topic to get everyone talking?

Ukrainians living under Russian rule had no country of their own until they finally gained independence. The few regions on the eastern side of Ukraine claiming to be predominantly Russian can simply walk across the border to the actual country of Russia.

Even if the rebels are victorious, like Crimea the region that gains independence will be annexed by Russia. There will be no People's Republic of Donetsk. There are still ethnic Ukrainians in those regions.
- AlexF

That's a wee bit harsh no? If someone told you to simply move to another country because your heritage/language/ traditions are not welcome, would you?

Be it under Czarist domination or Soviet repression, the Ukrainian territory was cut out in the form of a province or state in colonial fashion without regard for ethnic minorities in much the same way Africa and the Middle East was. Only now are we seeing the repercussions of that.

Long story short I'm merely arguing that you must look at both sides of the story ( check out RT News for "eastern" coverage) as both spheres of influence are propagating rhetoric at this point, though as I stated before only one side has been targeting civilians since this mess began...

Turning our attention to the scraps of hockey news that are floating around, I've just posted the new blog:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=61374

That's a wee bit harsh no? If someone told you to simply move to another country because your heritage/language/ traditions are not welcome, would you?

Be it under Czarist domination or Soviet repression, the Ukrainian territory was cut out in the form of a province or state in colonial fashion without regard for ethnic minorities in much the same way Africa and the Middle East was. Only now are we seeing the repercussions of that.

Long story short I'm merely arguing that you must look at both sides of the story ( check out RT News for "eastern" coverage) as both spheres of influence are propagating rhetoric at this point, though as I stated before only one side has been targeting civilians since this mess began...
- Whiskey-Tango

But as Kaptaan would say "who cares they're communists"

Turning our attention to the scraps of hockey news that are floating around, I've just posted the new blog:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=61374
- Carol Schram

Well done teacher.