Mario Gotze. I thought it was a great call in the moment.
- bodiva88

Whatever you want, Mario Gets. Get it?

Also, we should really make sure we keep this to hockey-only talk.

I never saw some of the guys you mentioned (Orr/Clarke/LaFleur) and I don't think I ever saw Bourque live. But I hate that people say, "Well, if Mario had played with all those superstars like Gretzky did..." I guess playing on a team with only guys like Jagr, Francis, Murphy, Coffey, Stevens (pre-coke and hookers), and Recchi really held him back.
- jmatchett383

the biggest limitations on Mario's career were cancer and back injury.

I never saw some of the guys you mentioned (Orr/Clarke/LaFleur) and I don't think I ever saw Bourque live. But I hate that people say, "Well, if Mario had played with all those superstars like Gretzky did..." I guess playing on a team with only guys like Jagr, Francis, Murphy, Coffey, Stevens (pre-coke and hookers), and Recchi really held him back.
- jmatchett383

Injuries & illness limited Lemieux more than Gretzky and a lot of the guys you mention were added to Lemieux's team after he had already been a dominating presence while turning guys like Warren Young and Rob Brown into 40 goal scorers.

the biggest limitations on Mario's career were cancer and back injury.
- bodiva88

Agreed. Still, he was more than 900 points behind Wayne.

Whatever you want, Mario Gets. Get it?

Also, we should really make sure we keep this to hockey-only talk.
- jmatchett383

I was waiting for that reminder.

I never saw some of the guys you mentioned (Orr/Clarke/LaFleur) and I don't think I ever saw Bourque live. But I hate that people say, "Well, if Mario had played with all those superstars like Gretzky did..." I guess playing on a team with only guys like Jagr, Francis, Murphy, Coffey, Stevens (pre-coke and hookers), and Recchi really held him back.
- jmatchett383

Mario had a great cast in Pittsburgh, without question.
However

Messier > Francis
Kurri is pretty close to Jagr
Anderson > Recchi

And Coffey, when it comes to pure offense, was much better than any Pens dman of Mario's era.

This naturally leads me to:
The top 10 players I ever witnessed!!
- BiggE

Sid is sad that you didn't list him...

the biggest limitations on Mario's career were cancer and back injury.
- bodiva88

True, and he also played well into the trap era while Gretzky's prime years came during the wide open 80s

Another thing that might be overlooked in focusing on their own prospects is that you might avoid un-signed players trying to impress the Flyers brass by laying big hits on Flyers prospects. Gostisbehere got run a couple years ago and ended up missing one of the scrimmages

Sid is sad that you didn't list him...


- Tomahawk

Not sure Sindy would even make the top 25!

Agreed. Still, he was more than 900 points behind Wayne.
- jmatchett383

Lemieux played with a lesser team for longer than Wayne and saw a good chunk of his career fall in the dead puck, clutch and grab era. Wayne was in his decline during the mid to late 1990's.

Mario had a great cast in Pittsburgh, without question.
However

Messier > Francis
Kurri is pretty close to Jagr
Anderson > Recchi

And Coffey, when it comes to pure offense, was much better than any Pens dman of Mario's era.
- BiggE

Was he better than Paul Coffey?

read this and thought we had another owner going to jail

Was he better than Paul Coffey?
- jmatchett383

Edmonton Coffey was better than Pittsburgh Coffey

Lemieux played with a lesser team for longer than Wayne and saw a good chunk of his career fall in the dead puck, clutch and grab era. Wayne was in his decline during the mid to late 1990's.
- Jsaquella

I think part of what made those players AS GREAT as they were was playing with Wayne Gretzky. Mario may have been stronger and more naturally talented, but no one was as smarty as Gretzky. Even in the mid-90's, you could still see that he was just better than everyone out there because of how he thought.

Edmonton Coffey was better than Pittsburgh Coffey
- bmeltzer

Looking purely at statistics, he had a higher PPG in Pittsburgh (1.33) than he did in Edmonton(1.26). Also, if we assume that Edmonton had the more talented team in terms of forwards, you'd have to imagine that all these skilled forwards filling the net with his passes (or passing the puck to him) would increase his statistical numbers more.

Was he better than Paul Coffey?
- jmatchett383

Yes, the Paul Coffey of the 80s was a better player than the Paul Coffey of the 90s.

Wisebutt!

- wolfhounds

Ghostisbare

I think part of what made those players AS GREAT as they were was playing with Wayne Gretzky. Mario may have been stronger and more naturally talented, but no one was as smarty as Gretzky. Even in the mid-90's, you could still see that he was just better than everyone out there because of how he thought.
- jmatchett383

I feel like he only ever had a slight edge in IQ/instinct over Mario... but Mario's advantage over 99 in terms of sheer skill and physical build was ridiculous.

I really doubt 99 in his physical prime was anywhere near as strong as Sam "Pull Ups" Bennett at the combine.

I feel like he only ever had a slight edge in IQ/instinct over Mario... but Mario's advantage over 99 in terms of sheer skill and physical build was ridiculous.

I really doubt 99 in his physical prime was anywhere near strong as Sam "Pull Ups" Bennett at the combine.
- Tomahawk

Another thing that might be overlooked in focusing on their own prospects is that you might avoid un-signed players trying to impress the Flyers brass by laying big hits on Flyers prospects. Gostisbehere got run a couple years ago and ended up missing one of the scrimmages
- Jsaquella

I believe it was Laughton that drilled Ghost but understand what you are saying.

Yes, the Paul Coffey of the 80s was a better player than the Paul Coffey of the 90s.

Wisebutt!
- BiggE

Actually, his best season in Pittsburgh came in 1988-89 without the likes of Francis, Jagr, Stevens, or the Edmonton cast. That's not bad for a 2-man show.

Another thing that might be overlooked in focusing on their own prospects is that you might avoid un-signed players trying to impress the Flyers brass by laying big hits on Flyers prospects. Gostisbehere got run a couple years ago and ended up missing one of the scrimmages
- Jsaquella

Yup, although Scott Laughton was the one who hit Ghost. In the second scrimmage, both Scott Laughton and Tye McGinn fought undrafted Chris Williams after blindside hits. Fredric Larsson suffered a concussion in that scrimmage.

Edmonton Coffey was better than Pittsburgh Coffey
- bmeltzer

I prefer Wawa Coffee myself.

I feel like he only ever had a slight edge in IQ/instinct over Mario... but Mario's advantage over 99 in terms of sheer skill and physical build was ridiculous.

I really doubt 99 in his physical prime was anywhere near strong as Sam "Pull Ups" Bennett at the combine.
- Tomahawk

Mario was so strong that he didn't have to be as smart. He'd skate the puck up the middle and just power past them. Gretzky's offensive positioning was second to none.