I am fine with Condra on the team and would like a 4th line of

Lazar-Smith-Condra

I think we are sitting with 2 extra forwards and 1 extra defenceman. So something still has to give this summer. If Ottawa was smart they'd send Ceci down to the AHL next year to grow and play big minutes. He played well last year for the opportunity he was given but he's still just a kid. Let's hope he doesn't have a sophmore slump if he does play in the NHL. Also, let's hope Weircioch isn't sacrificed to make room for Ceci and then Ceci has a setback and we are screwed.

Anyway, on forwards I'd love to see Neil and Greening traded so that our forwards are mostly skilled players. I know everyone says you need a 4th line to grind but why can't a team go with four lines that all have skill to them?

L1: MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
L2: Michalek-Zibanejad-Chiasson
L3: Hoffman-Legawand-Stone
L4: Lazar-Smith-Condra
Extra: Pageau
- riceroni

Honestly I think this would be the best lineup we could put together. Surely some team would love to have Chris Neil, and turnover a decent pick for him. Greening, well what's going on with the rumours that Chicago wants him? Greening + Neil for Leddy. Any day, all day.

They said the exact same thing about Cowen, Zibby, Lehner - the Sens management oversells their prospects to promote the only thing we can all agree on - Murray drafts well.

I don't see space for him in this lineup

Mac - Turris - Ryan
9MM - Legwand - Chiasson
Hoffman/Puempel - Zibby - Stone
Greening - Smith - Neil
Condra

where does he fit? And you have Pageau, Grant, Dizzy and some other prosepcts they'd probably like to give NHL games to as well.
- tuna99

I have a feeling the entire bottom line is gone ,save maybe confra.We keep hearing how Chicago loves smith and greening ,supposedly they had a scout at development camp.I suspect there is a deal coming sooner than later .This wouldnt be a bad thing tbh .It gives the kids a sheltered place to play on the 4th line

Condra is a NHL quality bottom six guy. He does nothing to hurt your team when he's on the ice, because you don't roll him out when you need to score. You roll him out when you need to grind other teams down, to tire them out, to force them in to making mistakes. The value of Condra on a NHL roster is difficult to measure because he doesn't score.

BUT

If you want to compare him to Greening, then to me it's a no-brainer. Greening hurts his team at least once a period. Condra might make a critical error 2-3x per season.

At his age and salary, moving Condra makes no sense. He's a better 3rd/4th option at RW than the team has in Ottawa or Binghampton.

I get the argument that Ottawa is trying to make room for the young guys. The names I've seen dropped in the comments here are Lazar, Stone, Hoffman, Puempel.

Lazar - C
Stone - RW
Hoffman - C/LW
Puempel - LW

The only guy here potentially that he's taking ice away from is Stone, and I personally think that the 2RW or 3RW slot is Stone's to lose. Now that they have Chiasson, the RW position lines up like this, depth-wise:

Ryan
Chiasson
Stone
????

And those question marks are either Neil, or Condra. Now, who would you rather have on the ice? Neil is killing his own team night in and night out, whereas Condra is not. Can't say that Neil is an upgrade in terms of points either, Neil had 14 points last year and is on the wrong side of his 30's, Condra had 16 and isn't even 30 yet. Condra took a grand total of 30 PIM's last year and somehow managed to be a +/- 0 on the worst defensive team in the league last year. Neil took 211 PIM's and was a -10.

The choice seems pretty clear to me. Condra is more useful player than Neil, he's not taking ice time away from anyone, he should absolutely stay.

Condra is a NHL quality bottom six guy. He does nothing to hurt your team when he's on the ice, because you don't roll him out when you need to score. You roll him out when you need to grind other teams down, to tire them out, to force them in to making mistakes. The value of Condra on a NHL roster is difficult to measure because he doesn't score.

BUT

If you want to compare him to Greening, then to me it's a no-brainer. Greening hurts his team at least once a period. Condra might make a critical error 2-3x per season.

At his age and salary, moving Condra makes no sense. He's a better 3rd/4th option at RW than the team has in Ottawa or Binghampton.

I get the argument that Ottawa is trying to make room for the young guys. The names I've seen dropped in the comments here are Lazar, Stone, Hoffman, Puempel.

Lazar - C
Stone - RW
Hoffman - C/LW
Puempel - LW

The only guy here potentially that he's taking ice away from is Stone, and I personally think that the 2RW or 3RW slot is Stone's to lose. Now that they have Chiasson, the RW position lines up like this, depth-wise:

Ryan
Chiasson
Stone
????

And those question marks are either Neil, or Condra. Now, who would you rather have on the ice? Neil is killing his own team night in and night out, whereas Condra is not. Can't say that Neil is an upgrade in terms of points either, Neil had 14 points last year and is on the wrong side of his 30's, Condra had 16 and isn't even 30 yet. Condra took a grand total of 30 PIM's last year and somehow managed to be a +/- 0 on the worst defensive team in the league last year. Neil took 211 PIM's and was a -10.

The choice seems pretty clear to me. Condra is more useful player than Neil, he's not taking ice time away from anyone, he should absolutely stay.
- the_terror

If we want a shot at McDavid then Condra is out and Neil is in

I like condra and dont see any reason to move him...sure he would still somehow miss if he was shooting at a soccer net, but i dont think he hurts the team...hes a great grinder / 4th line guy that can kill penalties and is hard to play against...seems silly to move him...

Greening though...i would literally give him away for free if there was any takers..

Condra is a NHL quality bottom six guy. He does nothing to hurt your team when he's on the ice, because you don't roll him out when you need to score. You roll him out when you need to grind other teams down, to tire them out, to force them in to making mistakes. The value of Condra on a NHL roster is difficult to measure because he doesn't score.

BUT

If you want to compare him to Greening, then to me it's a no-brainer. Greening hurts his team at least once a period. Condra might make a critical error 2-3x per season.

At his age and salary, moving Condra makes no sense. He's a better 3rd/4th option at RW than the team has in Ottawa or Binghampton.

I get the argument that Ottawa is trying to make room for the young guys. The names I've seen dropped in the comments here are Lazar, Stone, Hoffman, Puempel.

Lazar - C
Stone - RW
Hoffman - C/LW
Puempel - LW

The only guy here potentially that he's taking ice away from is Stone, and I personally think that the 2RW or 3RW slot is Stone's to lose. Now that they have Chiasson, the RW position lines up like this, depth-wise:

Ryan
Chiasson
Stone
????

And those question marks are either Neil, or Condra. Now, who would you rather have on the ice? Neil is killing his own team night in and night out, whereas Condra is not. Can't say that Neil is an upgrade in terms of points either, Neil had 14 points last year and is on the wrong side of his 30's, Condra had 16 and isn't even 30 yet. Condra took a grand total of 30 PIM's last year and somehow managed to be a +/- 0 on the worst defensive team in the league last year. Neil took 211 PIM's and was a -10.

The choice seems pretty clear to me. Condra is more useful player than Neil, he's not taking ice time away from anyone, he should absolutely stay.
- the_terror

Neil,s role should be what Kassian,s was last season ,13th forward ,i really like the look of this team now ,and it could get even better

Neil,s role should be what Kassian,s was last season ,13th forward ,i really like the look of this team now ,and it could get even better

- top shelf 15

FINALLY, SOMEONE RESPONDS WITH A LITTLE POSITIVITY! THEY'RE NOT A CONTENDER YET, BUT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE AWFUL.

Look, scoring wasn't an issue last year, they were top-10 in goals for, and that was with an injured Bobby Ryan. You can't tell me that they will have trouble scoring with a lineup like this:

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Michalek-Legwand-Chiasson
Hoffman-Zibanejad-Stone
Puempel-Lazar-Condra

What's with the 4th line, you ask? Well I figure that Greening and Smith are on their way to Chicago shortly, and I think someone like Leddy and/or Oduya are coming back. Yes that leaves them with 10 defensemen under contract, but they can surely move a few bodies back there, and probably should anyways, considering how atrocious everyone not named Karlsson and Wiercioch were last year.

No they won't win a Stanley Cup, but I do think they'll have a solid run at a playoff spot, and might surprise a lot of people. Don't think for a second that Connor MacDavid is bound for Ottawa.

EDIT: And giving MacLean four lines that he can play with confidence is a huge bonus for the team. He had two lines last year, and I'm referring to Michalek-Spezza-Hemsky/Conacher, and Greening/Smith/Neil, that got crushed every time they rolled out there. With the lineup I have above, only Michalek is returning from that group, which makes sense because in terms of confidence, only he and Hemsky wouldn't make me nervous every time they were on the ice. Don't look at lines 2 through 4 as traditional 2-4 lines, they should be able to play all of those guys 5v5 in relatively even doses.

Heard a great radio comment this morning. "These are your next generation Sens." Only 2 players remain from the team that went to the SCF.

Everyone was so distressed last Monday from the draft week and the trade of Spezza. But, think about it, Murray added Chiasson and Legwand. In addition he got Paul from Dallas who is headed to the Team Canada summer camp with Lazar. Guptil is having a good collegiate run and they added a 2nd pick as well.

I believe there is a trade coming for another forward. Encouraging to hear Chicago rather than Buffalo.

FINALLY, SOMEONE RESPONDS WITH A LITTLE POSITIVITY! THEY'RE NOT A CONTENDER YET, BUT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE AWFUL.

Look, scoring wasn't an issue last year, they were top-10 in goals for, and that was with an injured Bobby Ryan. You can't tell me that they will have trouble scoring with a lineup like this:

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Michalek-Legwand-Chiasson
Hoffman-Zibanejad-Stone
Puempel-Lazar-Condra

What's with the 4th line, you ask? Well I figure that Greening and Smith are on their way to Chicago shortly, and I think someone like Leddy and/or Oduya are coming back. Yes that leaves them with 10 defensemen under contract, but they can surely move a few bodies back there, and probably should anyways, considering how atrocious everyone not named Karlsson and Wiercioch were last year.

No they won't win a Stanley Cup, but I do think they'll have a solid run at a playoff spot, and might surprise a lot of people. Don't think for a second that Connor MacDavid is bound for Ottawa.

EDIT: And giving MacLean four lines that he can play with confidence is a huge bonus for the team. He had two lines last year, and I'm referring to Michalek-Spezza-Hemsky/Conacher, and Greening/Smith/Neil, that got crushed every time they rolled out there. With the lineup I have above, only Michalek is returning from that group, which makes sense because in terms of confidence, only he and Hemsky wouldn't make me nervous every time they were on the ice. Don't look at lines 2 through 4 as traditional 2-4 lines, they should be able to play all of those guys 5v5 in relatively even doses.
- the_terror

Its big, fast .And could ice at least 7 40 point guys ,Leg,zibby,mac,milo,ryan,turris and EK . Add in some promising kids like Stone ,chaison ,lazar.And yeah its not as bleak as most think it is

Heard a great radio comment this morning. "These are your next generation Sens." Only 2 players remain from the team that went to the SCF.

Everyone was so distressed last Monday from the draft week and the trade of Spezza. But, think about it, Murray added Chiasson and Legwand. In addition he got Paul from Dallas who is headed to the Team Canada summer camp with Lazar. Guptil is having a good collegiate run and they added a 2nd pick as well.

I believe there is a trade coming for another forward. Encouraging to hear Chicago rather than Buffalo.
- spatso

The only problem there is that we need another good top 6 guy ,Sharp being the most logical,i can see a deal of Greening ,Smith a pick and prospect.Heading the other way .Off course we retain cap on greening and smith{not dollars}So they add 4 players for 1 and save 2 mil in cap,Chicago fans would cry however ,but such is the price of sucess

The only problem there is that we need another good top 6 guy ,Sharp being the most logical,i can see a deal of Greening ,Smith a pick and prospect.Heading the other way .Off course we retain cap on greening and smith{not dollars}So they add 4 players for 1 and save 2 mil in cap

- top shelf 15

I don't think we necessarily NEED another top 6 guy. If we bring one in, it's another opportunity lost for a young player that likely deserves a shot. I believe that in the very least, Stone, Puempel, and Lazar will be given very good looks to make this team.

If we can cut ties with Greening and Neil (I personally don't think Chris Neil is going anywhere- too much of a fan favourite to lose in already turbulent times), I think we have a VERY decent roster to start the season with this lineup:

Mac- Turris - Ryan
Mich- Zibanejad - Stone/Chiasson
Puempel - Legwand - Chiasson/Stone
Condra - Smith - Lazar

Its big, fast .And could ice at least 7 40 point guys ,Leg,zibby,mac,milo,ryan,turris and EK . Add in some promising kids like Stone ,chaison ,lazar.And yeah its not as bleak as most think it is

- top shelf 15

Agreed, and in terms of point projection, I think they're going to score a ton of goals.

I'm certainly still a little concerned about the blueline corps. Honestly, it really depends on a couple of big things.

1) Karlsson being at 100% health. I've read here and there that he still didn't feel like himself last year after the Achilles incident. If unhealthy Karlsson can produce 74 points as a 23-year old, then what is the ceiling for healthy Karlsson at 24? 90?

2) Cowen MUST have a great summer and at minimum get back to the level he was at in 2011-2012. I'm not prepared to give up on the guy at 23, considering the injury history that has probably slowed his development down. But he has to step up and be the man this year. He's got the raw talent and the size. So, a lot of the improvement that they need this year honestly rests on his shoulders.

3) MacLean needs to keep Wiercioch in the lineup. He's got the size and still to be a solid top-4 option for this team, and honestly had a reasonably good year when he was playing. Coach needs to keep rolling him out there.

4) Methot also needs to get back to the form he had in the lockout season. He's another solid top-4 option if he can do that.

5) Phillips needs to play sheltered minutes, if he plays at all. The days of rolling Phillips out against other teams top guys are long gone. He needs to only play against grinders, eating those minutes up to give Karlsson et al enough rest to log the big minutes.

6) Gryba and Ceci and Borowiecki aren't ready to be major contributors yet, but if they can eat those depth minutes up without harming the team, then fine.

If you get healthy Karlsson, Wiercioch in the lineup, and Cowen and Methot turning things around at least to where they were in 2012 and 2013 respectively, and you probably shave 50 goals against off from where they were last year. That's without hoping that Anderson/Lehner come back stronger than they were this past season.

And if you shave 50 goals off from where they were last year, they would be 11th in the league in goals against instead of 27th.

So, can they do it? I think that's what Murray is counting on.

Agreed, and in terms of point projection, I think they're going to score a ton of goals.

I'm certainly still a little concerned about the blueline corps. Honestly, it really depends on a couple of big things.

1) Karlsson being at 100% health. I've read here and there that he still didn't feel like himself last year after the Achilles incident. If unhealthy Karlsson can produce 74 points as a 23-year old, then what is the ceiling for healthy Karlsson at 24? 90?

2) Cowen MUST have a great summer and at minimum get back to the level he was at in 2011-2012. I'm not prepared to give up on the guy at 23, considering the injury history that has probably slowed his development down. But he has to step up and be the man this year. He's got the raw talent and the size. So, a lot of the improvement that they need this year honestly rests on his shoulders.

3) MacLean needs to keep Wiercioch in the lineup. He's got the size and still to be a solid top-4 option for this team, and honestly had a reasonably good year when he was playing. Coach needs to keep rolling him out there.

4) Methot also needs to get back to the form he had in the lockout season. He's another solid top-4 option if he can do that.

5) Phillips needs to play sheltered minutes, if he plays at all. The days of rolling Phillips out against other teams top guys are long gone. He needs to only play against grinders, eating those minutes up to give Karlsson et al enough rest to log the big minutes.

6) Gryba and Ceci and Borowiecki aren't ready to be major contributors yet, but if they can eat those depth minutes up without harming the team, then fine.

If you get healthy Karlsson, Wiercioch in the lineup, and Cowen and Methot turning things around at least to where they were in 2012 and 2013 respectively, and you probably shave 50 goals against off from where they were last year. That's without hoping that Anderson/Lehner come back stronger than they were this past season.

And if you shave 50 goals off from where they were last year, they would be 11th in the league in goals against instead of 27th.

So, can they do it? I think that's what Murray is counting on.
- the_terror

Well not having one of the worst top line center in terms of defensive play helps that alot .We dont have to play Spezza 20 mins a game anymore ,we can play faster more physical two way hockey now.That alone will help with GA but also help the defense

Well not having one of the worst top line center in terms of defensive play helps that alot .We dont have to play Spezza 20 mins a game anymore ,we can play faster more physical two way hockey now.That alone will help with GA but also help the defense

- top shelf 15

I think this is a very good point.

When Paul MacLean had his most successful season with the Senators, the one where they went to the 2nd round of the playoffs and he won the Jack Adams, he did it with a roster that featured a ton of hard working players who were responsible in all zones. The goaltending was world class, and a good part of that was because of how they played. It was a hard forechecking and hard backchecking game. They were an absolutely grizzly bear to deal with.

That season, Spezza played 5 games.

Michalek had a significant injury, but when he came back, he filled right in and played the game MacLean wanted him to play. Karlsson came back from his injury and although he wasn't the guy that he was prior to the incident with Cooke, was still very effective. The only guy on the roster that didn't buy in with MacLean's system was Spezza, and I don't think it's a stretch to say that part of the reason why MacLean had so much success with that team in that season is because he didn't roll Spezza out 20 minutes nightly.

I'm not gonna sit here and say that Spezza sucks, he doesn't. He just didn't fit with the style of responsible possession hockey that MacLean clearly wants the team to play, and the roster they're looking at rolling out certainly seems tailored towards it.

you can have him back for your late season collapses your team is becoming famous for. How did the Leafs end up finishing lower then the Sens last year anyways?

Mac was on a Leafs playoff team and you let him go - probably not a smart move considering your team continued it's "reasons for never giving the fans a reason to cheer since the 60's" moto they try so hard to honour
- tuna99

So was Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren.

Well not having one of the worst top line center in terms of defensive play helps that alot .We dont have to play Spezza 20 mins a game anymore ,we can play faster more physical two way hockey now.That alone will help with GA but also help the defense

- top shelf 15

If you listen to guys who played or managed at the NHL level you get a pretty solid story emerging. Zimmer on Team 1200 this morning saying the Senators are a much harder team to play with Legwand (Nashville not Detroit version) rather than Spezza of the last few years. He made the point that your #1 center sets the tone for how your players play the game. It is your center that has the first responsibility to help (cover) the Dman fighting for the puck down low in his own end.

I think this is a very good point.

When Paul MacLean had his most successful season with the Senators, the one where they went to the 2nd round of the playoffs and he won the Jack Adams, he did it with a roster that featured a ton of hard working players who were responsible in all zones. The goaltending was world class, and a good part of that was because of how they played. It was a hard forechecking and hard backchecking game. They were an absolutely grizzly bear to deal with.

That season, Spezza played 5 games.

Michalek had a significant injury, but when he came back, he filled right in and played the game MacLean wanted him to play. Karlsson came back from his injury and although he wasn't the guy that he was prior to the incident with Cooke, was still very effective. The only guy on the roster that didn't buy in with MacLean's system was Spezza, and I don't think it's a stretch to say that part of the reason why MacLean had so much success with that team in that season is because he didn't roll Spezza out 20 minutes nightly.

I'm not gonna sit here and say that Spezza sucks, he doesn't. He just didn't fit with the style of responsible possession hockey that MacLean clearly wants the team to play, and the roster they're looking at rolling out certainly seems tailored towards it.
- the_terror

Yep him and hemsky will score points for sure ,but for dallas,s sake. I hope they have an all world pairing ,backing them up.Spezza,s speed has diminished,and with the back issues what little defensive game he had went with it

Yep him and hemsky will score points for sure ,but for dallas,s sake. I hope they have an all world pairing ,backing them up.Spezza,s speed has diminished,and with the back issues what little defensive game he had went with it

- top shelf 15

Well, you don't have Spezza on your team to play defense, but I think that's philosophically where the problem arose. Spezza is an elite scorer and playmaker, there's no doubt about that, and he adds value to any team he's on. But with Ottawa being so deep at C, and with the game that MacLean wants the team to play (and have been successful at playing), Spezza doesn't exactly fit in. So as much as it is a skill loss for the Senators, and no one should question that, it absolutely is, I still think they'll end up winning a lot more games without him on the team.

So was Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren.
- walshyleafsfan

Mac if he is a 45 to 50 point winger that plays both ends of the rink has a place here .We are moving away from the high skilled ,high maintainence .Types of players and are looking to become a big, fast,deep, two way team.Both up front and on defense,the pieces are starting to come together.But this looks like a good team here

Well, you don't have Spezza on your team to play defense, but I think that's philosophically where the problem arose. Spezza is an elite scorer and playmaker, there's no doubt about that, and he adds value to any team he's on. But with Ottawa being so deep at C, and with the game that MacLean wants the team to play (and have been successful at playing), Spezza doesn't exactly fit in. So as much as it is a skill loss for the Senators, and no one should question that, it absolutely is, I still think they'll end up winning a lot more games without him on the team.
- the_terror

Yep ,agreed.

Yep him and hemsky will score points for sure ,but for dallas,s sake. I hope they have an all world pairing ,backing them up.Spezza,s speed has diminished,and with the back issues what little defensive game he had went with it

- top shelf 15

Unbelievable how “He’s a point per game centre, elite offensive player in the NHL, and people who talk about him being bad defensively exaggerate, and that’s worth a fortune in a trade” has changed to “he’s a liability and the team is better with him gone”.

Unbelievable how “He’s a point per game centre, elite offensive player in the NHL, and people who talk about him being bad defensively exaggerate, and that’s worth a fortune in a trade” has changed to “he’s a liability and the team is better with him gone”.
- prock

Is it actually unbelievable?

Unbelievable how “He’s a point per game centre, elite offensive player in the NHL, and people who talk about him being bad defensively exaggerate, and that’s worth a fortune in a trade” has changed to “he’s a liability and the team is better with him gone”.
- prock

I was happy with Berglund a 1st and a prospect.And was always on the trade spezza this season boat,
With Spezza,s departure we have added Legwand and Chaison ,plus two decent prospects and a second.I like the look of our team better now TBH ,it bigger faster and more defensively reliable .Than with Spezza,we lose some scoring but gain a better all around team

Ol Clarke mac, makes a great first impression. He is gonna frustrate fans with a 45 point year
- GardinerExpress

I don't think I'd be that frustrated if he picked up 45 pts this year. Expectations aren't exceptionally high for him, as I think we more or less appreciate his two-way play.

I think on the whole expectations are pretty low for this team, but I think we all agree we're being a little hard on them, and they will most likely surprise us as a hard working team who will win or lose 1 goal games.

I don't think I'd be that frustrated if he picked up 45 pts this year. Expectations aren't exceptionally high for him, as I think we more or less appreciate his two-way play.

I think on the whole expectations are pretty low for this team, but I think we all agree we're being a little hard on them, and they will most likely surprise us as a hard working team who will win or lose 1 goal games.
- Jordo

Yup. It makes sense because there really has been a dark cloud following the team around since the departure of Alfie, but a lot of that has been generated by media and internet trolls, and sadly a lot of people bought in hard on it.

The team isn't awful, they're young and they're on an internal budget, but this is a NHL roster and they'll be much better than the worst pundits suggest.