there aint a thing overrated about suters game. an absolute minute eater and fantastic at both ends. he doesn't make mistakes.

ive been defending subban this entire thread. the guy is a true game changer.
but two way defenders that are dominant at both ends are the crème of the crop.
that's why I believe at present neither karlsson nor subban should quite be in that elite company. and any diss on keith is laughable. the guy is phenomenal.

chara
keith
suter
weber
doughty

subban
karlsson
pietrangelo
mcdonagh
oel
- hugefemale dog77

Pretty much agree. I think Chara will start to drop off pretty quickly over next few years.

ya but subban isnt 30 years old yet in a few more years he will be way better two way then he is now and be unstoppable.
- jake24242

I was only referring to today. but yes, totally plausible.

chara wont be there in a few years either.

there aint a thing overrated about suters game. an absolute minute eater and fantastic at both ends. he doesn't make mistakes.

ive been defending subban this entire thread. the guy is a true game changer.
but two way defenders that are dominant at both ends are the crème of the crop cause the can hurt you without the puck.
that's why I believe at present neither karlsson nor subban should quite be in that very elite company.
and any diss on keith is laughable. the guy is phenomenal.

chara
keith
suter
weber
doughty

subban
karlsson
pietrangelo
mcdonagh
oel
- hugefemale dog77

I don't really think Chara is dominant at both ends. He's got a shot, that's about it.
I'd say Mcdonagh and Pietrangelo are better two-way players. Though not as good in their own end as Chara obviously

Pretty much agree. I think Chara will start to drop off pretty quickly over next few years.
- Canada Cup

agreed.

I think when he's on he's the most dominant dman in the game. but he looked abit ordinary against mtl and he may have lost a step.
he'll still be a factor with that size and reach, but he'll probably regress out of that group rather quickly

I don't really think Chara is dominant at both ends. He's got a shot, that's about it.
I'd say Mcdonagh and Pietrangelo are better two-way players. Though not as good in their own end as Chara obviously
- ehabs9

chara is amazing at starting the rush and a great first passer. his offensive abilities are great. not to mention his ability to keep possession in the offensive zone through board battles, good decisions and that reach..

his only real weakness is his skating. and not surprising with his size.
but with all his tools and mostly due to his size, hes still able to create space despite the weak skating.

when hes playing well, he's impossible for opposing teams to deal with. especially over the course of a long series

Clearly not one of the best 5 defenseman in the NHL. Does he even crack the top 10?

chara is amazing at starting the rush and a great first passer. his offensive abilities are great. not to mention his ability to keep possession in the offensive zone through board battles, good decisions and that reach..

his only real weakness is his skating. and not surprising with his size.
but with all his tools and mostly due to his size, hes still able to create space despite the weak skating
- hugefemale dog77

I suppose that's true. I was looking at offense as merely passing/shooting and playmaking which aren't his strong suits. But when you consider what he brings in the offensive zone in terms of keeping play alive and momentum it's definitely big.

Clearly not one of the best 5 defenseman in the NHL. Does he even crack the top 10?
- scottak

That's been covered extensively already. Got anything else?

Clearly not one of the best 5 defenseman in the NHL. Does he even crack the top 10?
- scottak

in terms of game changers; he's in the top very few. at any position.

and because of that dynamic skill he has, regardless of his perceived defensive flaws, (which are overstated) pk subban is absolutely in the top ten in the nhl. and moving up. if you watch the guy play for any length, it's impossible to say hes not

i prefer more of a traditional defenseman so my list would vary from most of yours. if age did not play a factor and I had to choose for 1 season.
1. webber
2. chara
3. doughty
4. seabrook
5. subban
6. keith
7. sutter
8. karlsson
9. OEL

after that its pretty much a bunch a tie between a bunch of dmen.

bottom line;

he took his bridge contract and won a Norris the first year and was one of the 2 biggest reasons mtl got to the eastern finals the next year.

time to pay up

i prefer more of a traditional defenseman so my list would vary from most of yours. if age did not play a factor and I had to choose for 1 season.
1. webber
2. chara
3. doughty
4. seabrook
5. subban
6. keith
7. sutter
8. karlson
- joshs

seabrook is great dman. and is a huge part of chicagos success

but he doesn't possess near the talent that anbody else on that list does.
ahead of keith??!! cmon. quennville doesn't agree either. keith is his guy.

Chicago's defence isn't nearly as formidable with seabrook as their number 1

bottom line;

he took his bridge contract and won a Norris the first year and was one of the 2 biggest reasons mtl got to the eastern finals the next year.

time to pay up
- hugefemale dog77

Montreal is going to have to pay huge, but they'd be foolish to move him

Montreal is going to have to pay huge, but they'd be foolish to move him
- Isles_since_6

as ive said; I hope subban gets a massive payday.
he's earned it; hurts their cap going forward too. which I have no problem with

seabrook is great dman. and is a huge part of chicagos success

but he doesn't possess near the talent that anbody else on that list does.
ahead of keith??!! cmon. quennville doesn't agree either. keith is his guy.

Chicago's defence isn't nearly as formidable with seabrook as their number 1
- hugefemale dog77

I think keith is a awesome player. he is chicagos #1. I just like seabrook better. I don't watch Chicago often, just when my team plays them or playoffs, but seabrook has been way more impressive. bigger hits, more points and less turnovers.

i prefer more of a traditional defenseman so my list would vary from most of yours. if age did not play a factor and I had to choose for 1 season.
1. webber
2. chara
3. doughty
4. seabrook
5. subban
6. keith
7. sutter
8. karlsson
9. OEL

after that its pretty much a bunch a tie between a bunch of dmen.
- joshs

Chara? You kidding me? This guy is a shell of his former self. Seabrook? Solid but not remotely in the same category. Sutter? Way overrated, his 1 goal and -5 in the past playoff speaks volumes. Not to mention 20 points in 57 playoffs career games and a -14. Gimme a break...

his defensive game is getting more solid. and will continue to do so.

but his impact on the game, and ability to take it over is what makes him so special.
it really overrides the warts imo.

watching that boston series was crazy. they had no answer for him. montreal got their bridge, now they need to pay one of their 2 franchise cornerstones
- hugefemale dog77

Exactly

Chara? You kidding me? This guy is a shell of his former self. Seabrook? Solid but not remotely in the same category. Sutter? Way overrated, his 1 goal and -5 in the past playoff speaks volumes. Not to mention 20 points in 57 playoffs career games and a -14. Gimme a break...
- mushalain1

if I had a dman for 1 season that is my list of who I would choose. chara can still shoot the puck 100+ miles an hour and is the biggest guy on the ice. he has lost a step but he allows everyone on your team to play bigger. sutter is a defensive dman. obviously he doesn't put up big #s but you can count on him to play good defense. I don't get the seabrook hate. everytime I watch him he looks awesome. I don't really follow much of Chicago outside of when my team plays him and the playoffs but from what I see he has bigger hits, more points and less turnovers than keith. also plays more of a traditional defenseman style. keith is a really good skater and likes to play up on the forwards more in the neutral zone.

Chara? You kidding me? This guy is a shell of his former self. Seabrook? Solid but not remotely in the same category. Sutter? Way overrated, his 1 goal and -5 in the past playoff speaks volumes. Not to mention 20 points in 57 playoffs career games and a -14. Gimme a break...
- mushalain1

plus minus is the dumbest stat there is.

if you cant understand suters flawless two way game and what he does for the wild, and the preds before that, you should try watching him more.
he isnt overly physical or flashy. but hes positionally perfect, has a fantastic stick, plays 28-30 a night and can break the forecheck and start the breakout as good as anyone. good smooth skater too.

maybe you just respect flashy more. that's fair I guess.


and you're basing your chara thoughts on one series. he was brilliant the entire regular season. nominated for another Norris for gods sake.


terrible post

if I had a dman for 1 season that is my list of who I would choose. chara can still shoot the puck 100+ miles an hour and is the biggest guy on the ice. he has lost a step but he allows everyone on your team to play bigger. sutter is a defensive dman. obviously he doesn't put up big #s but you can count on him to play good defense. I don't get the seabrook hate. everytime I watch him he looks awesome. I don't really follow much of Chicago outside of when my team plays him and the playoffs but from what I see he has bigger hits, more points and less turnovers than keith. also plays more of a traditional defenseman style. keith is a really good skater and likes to play up on the forwards more in the neutral zone.
- joshs

Chara looked lost against montreal. Normal for a guy given his size and age. Father time as caught up to him. Don't expect more than 30 points from Chara. As for Seabrook he is solid and would love to have him. But he is no way the same category as Keith, Weber, Doughty, or Subban. If Suter was so great defensively he would not be a -14 in 50 something old playoff games.

plus minus is the dumbest stat there is.

if you cant understand suters flawless two way game and what he does for the wild, and the preds before that, you should try watching him more.
he isnt overly physical or flashy. but hes positionally perfect, has a fantastic stick, plays 28-30 a night and can break the forecheck and start the breakout as good as anyone. good smooth skater too.

maybe you just respect flashy more. that's fair I guess.


and you're basing your chara thoughts on one series. he was brilliant the entire regular season. nominated for another Norris for gods sake.


terrible post
- hugefemale dog77

-14 for defense man dman in his playoff career playing for 2 defensive teams... right...

Chara looked lost against montreal. Normal for a guy given his size and age. Father time as caught up to him. Don't expect more than 30 points from Chara. As for Seabrook he is solid and would love to have him. But he is no way the same category as Keith, Weber, Doughty, or Subban. If Suter was so great defensively he would not be a -14 in 50 something old playoff games.
- mushalain1

how isn't seabrook in that category? o a montreal guy! now I get the chara hate. a -14 in over 50 playoff games is not really that bad for a defensive dman. I mean seriously!?!

if I had a dman for 1 season that is my list of who I would choose. chara can still shoot the puck 100+ miles an hour and is the biggest guy on the ice. he has lost a step but he allows everyone on your team to play bigger. sutter is a defensive dman. obviously he doesn't put up big #s but you can count on him to play good defense. I don't get the seabrook hate. everytime I watch him he looks awesome. I don't really follow much of Chicago outside of when my team plays him and the playoffs but from what I see he has bigger hits, more points and less turnovers than keith. also plays more of a traditional defenseman style. keith is a really good skater and likes to play up on the forwards more in the neutral zone.
- joshs

seabrook is a lot bigger than keith and can use his frame better. but keith is by no means soft. he prefers to use his stick, but he engages physically as well.

and of course his turnovers are higher. hes the puck carrier of the two. his possession stats are silly high. turnovers will happen.
and seabrook has only outscored keith once in the last 7 years.


no seabrook hate. hes a great dman. just not in that echelon imo

how isn't seabrook in that category? o a montreal guy! now I get the chara hate. a -14 in over 50 playoff games is not really that bad for a defensive dman. I mean seriously!?!
- joshs

Seabrook is not considered "Elite". Weber, Keith, Doughty, Karlsson, Subban are.

seabrook is a lot bigger than keith and can use his frame better. but keith is by no means soft. he prefers to use his stick, but he engages physically as well.

and of course his turnovers are higher. hes the puck carrier of the two. his possession stats are silly high. turnovers will happen.
and seabrook has only outscored keith once in the last 7 years.

no seabrook hate. hes a great dman. just not in that echelon imo
- hugefemale dog77

I don't really watch much of Chicago regular season. I just prefer a traditional dman and I think seabrook fits that mold more. last playoffs seabrook was Chicago best defenseman. I think keith is awesome too.