Brandon Sutter's been #1 centers on his team in on-ice save percentage every season of his career. Often by huge margins.

The kid just doesn't make mistakes, and covers for the mistakes of those around him. Maybe he's not worth 3-4 million a year, but don't fool yourself into thinking Goc and him are more or less the same.
- notwalnc

Please for the love of God take him back, he has slowly been destroying our team since the second his lazy a$$ put on a Pens jersey.

So far it's been Jim "value Value Value" Rutherford
- ChrisMS

"Double Coupon Rutherford"

"Early Bird Special Jim"

Just know that Johnston likes to use his best players on the PK so where Dan Bylsma never used Sid and Geno, that may happen now.
- Ryan_Wilson

Before Sid's concussions, he was getting a full minute of SH ice time a game. That number has been cut in half ever since, and wisely so.

Malkin even was getting some SH TOI before Crosby's injury.

I don't think it was a matter of ideology, but of reality.

And it remains to be seen how well Johnston's philosophies will port over from Junior. It's not a Steve Spurrier to the Redskins kind of jump, it's a Bob Ladouceur making the jump to the Redskins.

"Double Coupon Rutherford"

"Early Bird Special Jim"


- Guile

twofer ruther

hes 37 and polak is 28. Im not pounding my chest simply said no to the rly bad trade proposal if you love martin so much then keep him.
- jake24242

I have no problem keeping Martin. He would be your best Dman. He was/is an Olympian and is one of the top 40 or so Dmen in the game today. However, due to something called a cap and free agency looming for him next year, it's probably evident we won't be able to keep him. That is the only reason he would be on the market ... to get assets for him instead of losing him and getting nothing.

So far it's been Jim "value Value Value" Rutherford
- ChrisMS

Smart

And therein lies the problem when talking about a cap ceiling team.

Value value value
- Ryan_Wilson

The hardest thing to put a number on, I think, is forwards that keep the puck out of your own net. If he goes, I guess you'd see if he's missed. Pittsburgh's been pretty spoiled having Jordan then Brandon as the 3rd line center. Will be interesting to see what effects downgrading again to Goc would do, particularly if one of the top 2 centers go down.

Before Sid's concussions, he was getting a full minute of SH ice time a game. That number has been cut in half ever since, and wisely so.

Malkin even was getting some SH TOI before Crosby's injury.

I don't think it was a matter of ideology, but of reality.

And it remains to be seen how well Johnston's philosophies will port over from Junior. It's not a Steve Spurrier to the Redskins kind of jump, it's a Bob Ladouceur making the jump to the Redskins.
- hardnosed

Football is not a good comparison.

Hockey x's and o's translate to all levels. Only thing that changes are the skill levels of the players. Hockey is a simple game that looks chaotic on the ice.

The only thing that matters is if the coach is developing strategy that best fits the skill set of his team.

I heard some where that the Pens GM was not interested in a guy like Downie, I sure hope that where ever that idea came from that the trade Sutter notion doesn't come from the same line of logic.

No need for a reply, I am not one to gloat.

The hardest thing to put a number on, I think, is forwards that keep the puck out of your own net. If he goes, I guess you'd see if he's missed. Pittsburgh's been pretty spoiled having Jordan then Brandon as the 3rd line center. Will be interesting to see what effects downgrading again to Goc would do, particularly if one of the top 2 centers go down.
- notwalnc

So why does Goc possess the puck better and also keep the puck out better (sans the last two years b/c of sh*t goaltending)?

If Crosby or Malkin are out they are screwed anyways. Jussi Jokinen was the guy to fill that void anyways, not Sutter.

Ryan, who do you think the Pens look to acquire now that Kulemin is taken off the board?

I have no problem keeping Martin. He would be your best Dman. He was/is an Olympian and is one of the top 40 or so Dmen in the game today. However, due to something called a cap and free agency looming for him next year, it's probably evident we won't be able to keep him. That is the only reason he would be on the market ... to get assets for him instead of losing him and getting nothing.
- Oneonta Penguin

Top 6 is sooooo thin. They have to do something. Don't have to do it tomorrow but they need at least one more legit top 6 wing.

Seeing guys like Olli Jokinen get 2.5 mil for 1 year makes the thought of 3.5 for another year of Sutter's service far more easy to swallow.

Well, that and his performance in the playoffs while playing with passable linemates.

Plus he's only 25. Seems like moving Sutter would just weaken a bottom 6 that they just went through a lot of effort to fix.

And Downie and Comeau are bottom 6 guys who haven't been primary penalty killers. Trading Sutter would make keeping Adams around more necessary.

Spaling/Dupuis/Goc/Sutter is actually a pretty fast and skilled penalty killing group.
- hardnosed

This is why I went with Sutter. They aren't going to get a top winger in this year's FA so the money they save won't matter at the beginning of the season. Now it could at the trade deadline though. Still I am going with Sutter. I like to see a long term deal worked out especially at his age. It will be very interesting to see how these negotiations work out. If things aren't going smoothly then I could definitely see JR trade Sutter for a second time.

Top 6 is sooooo thin. They have to do something. Don't have to do it tomorrow but they need at least one more legit top 6 wing.
- madmike71

Marleau would be a very nice fit here.

Football is not a good comparison.

Hockey x's and o's translate to all levels. Only thing that changes are the skill levels of the players. Hockey is a simple game that looks chaotic on the ice.

The only thing that matters is if the coach is developing strategy that best fits the skill set of his team.
- Ryan_Wilson

I wasn't talking about x's and o's, I was talking about philosophies like playing your best players on the penalty kill. It's one thing to do that with the Portland Winterhawks, it's another thing to put your $9.5 mil a year center out in front of some guy's one timer with frequency.

I wasn't talking about x's and o's, I was talking about philosophies like playing your best players on the penalty kill. It's one thing to do that with the Portland Winterhawks, it's another thing to put your $9.5 mil a year center out in front of some guy's one timer with frequency.
- hardnosed

Like Kopitar, Toews, and Bergeron?

Marleau would be a very nice fit here.
- nbartley9

Old and expensive. Wrong fit for this team.

So I guess LA isn't trading for Martin as rumored on this site, huh? I was kinda hoping we would.

I wasn't talking about x's and o's, I was talking about philosophies like playing your best players on the penalty kill. It's one thing to do that with the Portland Winterhawks, it's another thing to put your $9.5 mil a year center out in front of some guy's one timer with frequency.
- hardnosed

during the regular season, im fine with 87 and 71 not really killing penalties.

however, during the playoffs, as minutes allow, not only am I fine with it, but I would like it.

I'm not saying it should come at the expense of say PP minutes, but if it can be worked in, or it is a particularly crucial kill, why not?

they are your best players. its the playoffs. there is nothing left to save them for.

So I guess LA isn't trading for Martin as rumored on this site, huh? I was kinda hoping we would.
- Ersberg

Mutual interest doesn't always result in a trade.

Old and expensive. Wrong fit for this team.
- madmike71

"Old" is relative. Marleau is still killing it.

Like Kopitar, Toews, and Bergeron?
- Ryan_Wilson

Would you trade a drop in Crosby's overall point totals to ask him to become one of the best 2 way forwards in the game? I think if you challenged Crosby to win the Selke he'd rise to it, but those players don't usually garner 100+ point seasons.

Poll Question: would you challenge Crosby to win the Selke if it meant a drastic (20+ pts) drop in his overall points?

Mutual interest doesn't always result in a trade.
- Ryan_Wilson

That's apparent.

Would you trade a drop in Crosby's overall point totals to ask him to become one of the best 2 way forwards in the game? I think if you challenged Crosby to win the Selke he'd rise to it, but those players don't usually garner 100+ point seasons.

Poll Question: would you challenge Crosby to win the Selke if it meant a drastic (20+ pts) drop in his overall points?
- stackthepads

i think he was fairly close to being asked that role last year, and his numbers were phenomenal.

now, with the added depth down low, hopefully he wont have to.

regardless of what happens with sutter, i am VERY excited to see a full season (fingers crossed) of goc for this team.

Would you trade a drop in Crosby's overall point totals to ask him to become one of the best 2 way forwards in the game? I think if you challenged Crosby to win the Selke he'd rise to it, but those players don't usually garner 100+ point seasons.

Poll Question: would you challenge Crosby to win the Selke if it meant a drastic (20+ pts) drop in his overall points?
- stackthepads

He kinda did that this year. Just because people take Crosby's two way game for granted doesn't mean he doesn't absolutely slaughter it in the shutdown role.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...s-Should-Thrive/177/60867