Another theory ...

T and Ks people float idea they are looking for 12 million per...then T and K sign for (hometown discount) and gain positive publicity off that. We'll see...I will be shocked if it's 12 per for both. If it is, backup the moving vans.....

That all said, I don't think the Hawks can afford to lose either 19 or 88...so I 'get it' if they max it out.

Not sure what you mean, the new CBA outlawed the type of contracts your thinking of. I'm assuming that they will make 10AAV, so 8 years for 80 MM in total.
- Madkymike

Salary Payroll $50,283,333
Cap Payroll $42,063,462

That's all I meant. I realize its less than 8MM difference, but just trying to point out that even is its 10 each, the cap payroll would be at 62 and change.

If it wasn't for the 'damn union' Toews and Kane would be getting Blackhawk jackets as signing bonuses which they could wear to their off season jobs so they could support their families.
- paulr

Hilarious. Let's not start that debate... Could get ugly and this is HOCKEY not politics

lastly...what leverage if any do the Hawks have?

Chicago? Maybe.

Toews gets Canadian endorsements regardless of if he's in Chicago, Omaha or BFE Idaho.

Kane? He's quickly becoming the face of USA hockey. the immature, drunken kid is no longer around. This is a fiery, determined guy who knows he can be THAT much better.

Bowman had/has no leverage. He knew it. Hawks knew it. Kane and toews know it. NHLPA knows it. THe league knows it. The only thing he can do is rush to get t down by 7/1 so he can plan out his upcoming 2-3 years when things get dicey.

I have a better morefair way to compare. Take the player you want to compare, determine what percentage of the cap his salary is, AT THE TIME OF SIGNING. Then determine the percentage of Kane and Toews salary to the cap, AT THEIR TIME OF SIGNING.

If at that point Kane and Toews make a higher percentage of their respective salary caps, you have an argument.
- paulr

Ok

Ill use Patrice Bergeron. Signed for 6.5 per at a time the cap was projected to go to $70 mil

yea, at that percentage, Toews and Kane should come in WAYYYY under 10 mil per

Kypreos is saying He Stan's by what he said about Sharp being on the block. He also said Kane and Toews will be in the $10 to $12 range. He also said the Hawks are looking for a #2 center.

If it wasn't for the 'damn union' Toews and Kane would be getting Blackhawk jackets as signing bonuses which they could wear to their off season jobs so they could support their families.
- paulr

As a fan, how does that affect me? As a fan, I don't need the F'n union.

You see him at the yame with Campbell ?? Lured to Florida my friend......
- mrpaulish

I believe it was Bic, but I get your point. Having friends in a city helps. Plus Florida/Tampa give you and 15% increase in salary due to no state tax. Most people take a sunshine discount in salary there.

Hilarious. Let's not start that debate... Could get ugly and this is HOCKEY not politics
- pspork

paul is right. It's not theory, the facts are there...and for proof just go back and look at sports pre-union (though like many noble things with good agendas, unions flew a bit off the tracks).

Ok

Ill use Patrice Bergeron. Signed for 6.5 per at a time the cap was projected to go to $70 mil

yea, at that percentage, Toews and Kane should come in WAYYYY under 10 mil per
- FourFeathers773

Not projected! What was his percentage of the cap when the contract was ACTUALLY signed.

Hilarious. Let's not start that debate... Could get ugly and this is HOCKEY not politics
- pspork

Thank you.

I do not want to see a political argument in here.

As a fan, how does that affect me? As a fan, I don't need the F'n union.
- powerenforcer

And you don't have a union, so I'm not sure what your concern is?

I don't think there is any argument..."they" all suck.
- kwolf68

I really don't want to see any side of the argument.

Kypreos is saying He Stan's by what he said about Sharp being on the block. He also said Kane and Toews will be in the $10 to $12 range. He also said the Hawks are looking for a #2 center.
- paulr

Based on Sharp's agent going bat poop crazy, I believe Kypreos. I think Sharp called his agent and blew him up and his agent is scrambling to save face AND win the court of public opinion and put pressure on the Hawks NOT to trade him.

Why does an agent ever come out and publicly talk about rumors, and then throw a GM under the bus by telling internal stories.

If Sharp is dealt he will go to the East and to a decent team. hawks will do him a favor in that regard.

Ill put it this way.

Patrice Bergeron just signed an 8 year deal at 6.5 per that starts this season. Toews and Kane's contract will kick in the following year.

Based off 1 year difference and their play, is Toews and Kane both really $4 million better players than Bergeron?

I say no. $3 mil? Sure, ill concede that. But its just pushing it too much for me at $10+

I get what you guys are all saying about the cap and NHLPA and stuff

but for them to come out and say theyd like to stay and be hawks forever and what not leads you to believe they are going to give the hawks a fair deal. $10+ is not a fair deal to the Hawks, its a fair deal to the NHLPA
- FourFeathers773

It's a fair deal for Kane and Toews, which is all that should matter to them. Let's not forget that the NHL owners, Rocky Wirtz at the forefront, had no problem sacrificing a half-season (and potentially more) of Kane and Toews mutually agreed-upon contracts via the last lockout. That's not a hometown discount, it's a hometown haircut.

Based on Sharp's agent going bat poop crazy, I believe Kypreos. I think Sharp called his agent and blew him up and his agent is scrambling to save face AND win the court of public opinion and put pressure on the Hawks NOT to trade him.

Why does an agent ever come out and publicly talk about rumors, and then throw a GM under the bus by telling internal stories.

If Sharp is dealt he will go to the East and to a decent team. hawks will do him a favor in that regard.
- SteveRain

His agent called Kypreos a puke out of Toronto.

Not projected! What was his percentage of the cap when the contract was ACTUALLY signed.
- paulr

6.5 per on his new deal out of $64.3 for the 2013-14 salary cap

10.1%

6.5 per on his new deal out of $64.3 for the 2013-14 salary cap

10.1%
- FourFeathers773

So using your logic you'd trade Bergeron straight up for Kane or Toews?

paul is right. It's not theory, the facts are there...and for proof just go back and look at sports pre-union (though like many noble things with good agendas, unions flew a bit off the tracks).
- kwolf68

Different times, my friend. Not apples to apples. In the 1950s if you told someone sports would be like this they'd be unable to comprehend it.

Besides, the pay for hockey players has always greatly lagged behind the other 3 major sports.

So using your logic you'd trade Bergeron straight up for Kane or Toews?
- paulr

Im just saying Toews or Kane isnt worth the massive $4 mil jump over someone like bergeron

Put it this way:

At $10.5 mil in cap, would you rather have

Kane

OR

Bergeron AND someone like Wayne Simmonds?

I wouldn't worry about the Kane and Toews contract situation, Stan will do the right thing and pay them whatever it takes to keep them. I don't care if it's $8.5 million, $10 million, or $12 million per season.

Stan has to deal with the hand he's been dealt. The Blackhawks have two of the best players in the game and they've help turn this franchise around and bring us 2 Cups since 2010. Kane and Toews deserve every cent.

Realistically Stan has two options:

1. Give Kane and Toews what they want and move other players to remain cap compliant if necessary; or

2. Sign one of Kane or Toews and trade the other.

In my opinion there is no choice, Stan has to go with option #1. Even if Stan signs them for $12 million it's not like the deal is going be a killer for all 8 years. Maybe it hurts for the first couple of years, but that its. Next year they are still making $6.3 million, so the first year of their new contract the cap will likely be around $75 million (or so it's been estiamted).
- DarthKane

I agree he has to pay them whatever it takes. However, if the cap is $75 mil in 2015 and they get $12 mil each, we're already at $75 mil and still have to sign or replace the following players who are UFA's/RFA's this year and next: Raanta, Smith, Morin, Oduya, Leddy, Roszival, Rundblad, Saad, Nordstrom, Kruger. It will be really hard to put out a team with any depth, as the Penguins have found.

Im just saying Toews or Kane isnt worth the massive $4 mil jump over someone like bergeron

Put it this way:

At $10.5 mil in cap, would you rather have

Kane

OR

Bergeron AND someone like Wayne Simmonds?
- FourFeathers773

Toews

Under Donald Fehr's leadership, the MLB players union saw massive increases in contracts. I believe he was brought in to do the same thing for the NHLPA. I would bet my house that he is going to try any way possible to have a non-friendly union deal vetoed when it comes to the 19/88 contract discussions. Much like he did with the A-Rod to Boston trade a few years ago.

As I've said before, Stan has a little leverage. He can pay Toews and Kane max deals, but if they want to win Cups, they may need to sacrifice. No cap space, no impact players either at the trade deadline or UFA.

Toews
- paulr

Thats fine. Keep Toews at 10.5

Then with the other 10.5, instead of Kane, you could have Bergeron and Simmonds

I'm going to try this cap thing for a moment, never done this before.

According to capgeek, 2015-2016 has us at $29,036,538 cap space by doing absolutely nothing right now. Ok, so if Kane and Toews get $11 mil a piece that gives us $7,036,538 left. That's Kruger, Saad, Nordstrom, Morin, Smith, Regin, Oduya, Leddy and Roszival without contracts. In two years Oduya will be 34, Hossa will be 37.

If I had to guess, Hossa could retire in two years. That's another $5,275,000. But even with $7,036,538 you have enough to sign future "core", bring up youngins who have had additional time to develop and still be a strong team. I know things look dicey right now but two years is a long time and the current roster we see will have fresh faces that fit us under the cap.

Not too worried about keeping a strong team and staying under the cap.