Wow, he must be really immature if you're expecting another grow spurt at 24 years of age! What is he a tortoise?
- mcmasterkev

You're right, no guys ever get bigger or stronger past age 24. Thanks for enlightening us.

Good Lord.

Nice try though!

No one said that, so thanks for putting words in my mouth. Shaw's a tough little bugger for sure. Disingenuous no less? I'm lying?

For example, the Hawks pay Hossa less than Sharp. Who's better? Really? So that argument doesn't really hold water.

And guess what, the guy who make less but plays as well or better—well, to Rick's point, that's the guy you hold on to.

Shaw IS more physically mature than Kruger (regardless of age).

I will end this by saying, my original point WAS there are hockey people who would take Kruger over Shaw, and maybe even Hawk management. Doesn't mean Shaw sucks or that Kruger is categorically better. They are different types of players actually. But if you want to say Shaw is better than Kruger period, ok, but you will get an argument. Like the one(s) you just got.
- John Jaeckel

If size is not a big deal for Kruger, why is it such a big deal for TT?

You're right, no guys ever get bigger or stronger past age 24. Thanks for enlightening us.

Good Lord.

Nice try though!
- John Jaeckel

I was 6'5 and 190 pounds when I was 24...now I'm 6'5 and close to 230...Getting married did the trick for me...Maybe someone should get Kruger hitched!!

If size is not a big deal for Kruger, why is it such a big deal for TT?
- BearsnHawks

Easy to answer. Kruger plays In traffic he battles physically for pucks in all the hard places, he willingly goes into areas where he will get hit and he'll take a hit to make a play. From what I have seen of TT he is a perimeter player who avoids contact, at least so far. Kruger plays bigger than his size, TT plays a like a small player.

Easy to answer. Kruger plays In traffic he battles physically for pucks in all the hard places, he willingly goes into areas where he will get hit and he'll take a hit to make a play. From what I have seen of TT he is a perimeter player who avoids contact, at least so far. Kruger plays bigger than his size, TT plays a like a small player.
- paulr

That is not what i saw, while he was on the Hawks.... On offense he did seem to be a perimeter player, was pass first, and usually passed the puck before people were ready for it. However, on defense he was always getting back and seemed to be more physical on the back check (not hitting people but didnt avoid all contact). If anything, watching Kruger getting lit up against the Kings worries me. Hope other teams don't start doing that to him.

If size is not a big deal for Kruger, why is it such a big deal for TT?
- BearsnHawks

Fair question.

First, Kruger plays bigger than his size. That's just obvious. Second, Kruger's size is still holding him back. Third, Kruger is bigger than TT.

Easy to answer. Kruger plays In traffic he battles physically for pucks in all the hard places, he willingly goes into areas where he will get hit and he'll take a hit to make a play. From what I have seen of TT he is a perimeter player who avoids contact, at least so far. Kruger plays bigger than his size, TT plays a like a small player.
- paulr

Beat me to it, thx Paul

That is not what i saw, while he was on the Hawks.... On offense he did seem to be a perimeter player, was pass first, 1) and usually passed the puck before people were ready for it. However, on defense he was always getting back and seemed to be more physical on the back check (not hitting people but didnt avoid all contact). If anything, watching Kruger getting lit up against the Kings worries me. 2) Hope other teams don't start doing that to him.
- BearsnHawks

1) True! Except Hossa. TT has high hockey sense, without question.

2) This has been a "worry" for three years now. Kruger seems to be doing just fine. Some guys (Kruger) can absorbs hits better than others (Dave Bolland).

I was 6'5 and 190 pounds when I was 24...now I'm 6'5 and close to 230...Getting married did the trick for me...Maybe someone should get Kruger hitched!!
- captainserious

I hear ya Captain. I weighed 175 when I was 24. When I was 38, I weighed 202 and I was MUCH stronger and more physically capable across the board.

So that is just a silly argument.

I hear ya Captain. I weighed 175 when I was 24. When I was 38, I weighed 202 and I was MUCH stronger and more physically capable across the board.

So that is just a silly argument.
- John Jaeckel

I agree...Different players/people develop differently...There isn't a reason that Kruger can't add 15 pounds in another 2 years...And I agree, imo he is more valuable than Shaw...He just fills more holes, and can play center or wing effectively, where Shaw is a W playing C because the Hawks are limited there...What I appreciate from both of them, is that they are fearless and willing to do the not so glamorous work to help their team win

Another believe it! When they see it.

I mean it has been said last few years that Sharp is held in high regard around the league, in other cities - thought of as a really complete compete guy when he wants to - more so than by fans of his home town team.

Well perhaps Leddy is more highly thought of just about everywhere outside of this board. Just maybe I should believe he can be a major piece in a trade.

Still not believing it too much about Leddy.
- jhawk59

I had serious doubts about Leddy when he first came up. And don't get me wrong, does he have things to work on? Yes. But his improvement since 2011 has been steady and consistent.

A lot of people compared him to Brian Campbell when he first came up and while some of that (the skating) is obvious, Campbell seems to play with more edge, and both make mistakes.

That's the thing with Leddy though. He has tremendous mobility, a great shot, and can pass the puck. He just needs to keep putting the mental part of the game together. And to the extent he can do that, that will dictate how good an NHL player he becomes.

Easy to answer. Kruger plays In traffic he battles physically for pucks in all the hard places, he willingly goes into areas where he will get hit and he'll take a hit to make a play. From what I have seen of TT he is a perimeter player who avoids contact, at least so far. Kruger plays bigger than his size, TT plays a like a small player.
- paulr

It is a little early and unfair to lay that on TT as a permanent label. Give me 2 years of pro hockey in North America and then we can decide. Saku Koivu never impressed me and he's still going at 39.

I agree...Different players/people develop differently...There isn't a reason that Kruger can't add 15 pounds in another 2 years...And I agree, imo he is more valuable than Shaw...He just fills more holes, and can play center or wing effectively, where Shaw is a W playing C because the Hawks are limited there...What I appreciate from both of them, is that they are fearless and willing to do the not so glamorous work to help their team win
- captainserious

Yep, I honestly don't know if he is a "better" player than Shaw. But there are those who think so. To me, they are different types of players.

Funny the post immediately above about Leddy. If Leddy could think the game like Hjalmarsson, he'd be a near hall of famer. Kruger is like Hjalmarsson, so well-schooled as a hockey player. It is to be expected that he won't score much because he always thinks defense first—even though he has offensive skill.

It is a little early and unfair to lay that on TT as a permanent label. Give me 2 years of pro hockey in North America and then we can decide. Saku Koivu never impressed me and he's still going at 39.
- RickJ

Agreed, but that's just it. He probably needs a couple more years to grow and fill out a bit (if he can/will), before he's ready for serious duty in the NHL. Can he play in Chicago next year? Sure, but probably in limited duty on the wing. Or he is going to struggle in certain situations at C and the Hawks will too.

I see a parallel between him and Pavel Datsyuk who came into the league with similar skills and they are built very similarly. Datsyuk had to work to round out his game and become the complete player he is today. He didn't get much bigger, but man did he learn how to play bigger.

That's the part that's so hard to predict with so many guys: what's in their heart. Ultimately, what are they going to do when they're making over a million dollars a year, staying in expensive hotels, the groupies, all that.

It is a little early and unfair to lay that on TT as a permanent label. Give me 2 years of pro hockey in North America and then we can decide. Saku Koivu never impressed me and he's still going at 39.
- RickJ

Come on Rick, I carefully qualified my post with post with 'so far' and 'from what I have seen'. As of right now TT has shown he is not willing or ready to play the robust game Kruger has shown he can and will play.

Yep, I honestly don't know if he is a "better" player than Shaw. But there are those who think so. To me, they are different types of players.

Funny the post immediately above about Leddy. If Leddy could think the game like Hjalmarsson, he'd be a near hall of famer. Kruger is like Hjalmarsson, so well-schooled as a hockey player. It is to be expected that he won't score much because he always thinks defense first—even though he has offensive skill.
- John Jaeckel

Swedish school of hockey....Bowman knows how to pick em(Kruger)
I also think that the Hawks would like to get their hands on Kempe...but not sure he'll be there...I also think Kruger up with Ane and Sharp, or Kane and Saad would be a 50point player...Very good passer, and extremely intelligent

I have seen the rumor earlier in this thread that Anaheim has offered Vancouver a top prospect (perhaps Smith-Pelly) as well as the #10 and #24 picks in this year's draft. This would be a huge payout for Vancouver. It would give them, as a rebuilding team, three first round picks including 2 top 10 picks. The Hawks have no way to compete with that offer, primarily because Vancouver is rebuilding. They want to get younger, bigger and more physical.

I have assumed Kesler is gone to the Ducks.

Do the Hawks have a plan B?

Agreed, but that's just it. He probably needs a couple more years to grow and fill out a bit (if he can/will), before he's ready for serious duty in the NHL. Can he play in Chicago next year? Sure, but probably in limited duty on the wing. Or he is going to struggle in certain situations at C and the Hawks will too.

I see a parallel between him and Pavel Datsyuk who came into the league with similar skills and they are built very similarly. Datsyuk had to work to round out his game and become the complete player he is today. He didn't get much bigger, but man did he learn how to play bigger.

That's the part that's so hard to predict with so many guys: what's in their heart. Ultimately, what are they going to do when they're making over a million dollars a year, staying in expensive hotels, the groupies, all that.
- John Jaeckel

I know it's changed me.

I have seen the rumor earlier in this thread that Anaheim has offered Vancouver a top prospect (perhaps Smith-Pelly) as well as the #10 and #24 picks in this year's draft. This would be a huge payout for Vancouver. It would give them, as a rebuilding team, three first round picks including 2 top 10 picks. The Hawks have no way to compete with that offer, primarily because Vancouver is rebuilding. They want to get younger, bigger and more physical.

I have assumed Kesler is gone to the Ducks.
Do the Hawks have a plan B?
- spatso

You know what they say about assume.

You know what they say about assume.
- paulr

Amend assume to read "think."

Swedish school of hockey....Bowman knows how to pick em(Kruger)
I also think that the Hawks would like to get their hands on Kempe...but not sure he'll be there...I also think Kruger up with Ane and Sharp, or Kane and Saad would be a 50point player...Very good passer, and extremely intelligent
- captainserious

Was listening to one of the draft shows on Sirius. He sounded like he'd be a good get at 27 if the Hawks still had the pick.

Amend assume to read "think."
- spatso

If you did any thinking at all, you wouldn't be a Leaf fan.

If you did any thinking at all, you wouldn't be a Leaf fan.
- paulr

My head reminds my heart of this, especially in the post season.

Ive kicked this trade offer around on a different website, and i was curious how fans would take it...

Kelser and the #36 overall pick to Chicago
Jeremy Morin, Johny Oduya, Mark McNeill, the Rights to Kevin Hayes, and the #27 overall pick to Vancouver

I think its reasonable. Morin and Oduya play this year for VAN, Hayes and McNeill give them propects for the future and the Canucks move up 9 spots in the draft. Hawks get their 2C and a 2nd rounder

Thoughts?

Was listening to one of the draft shows on Sirius. He sounded like he'd be a good get at 27 if the Hawks still had the pick.
- HawkintheD

Yup...seems like he could be a good one,maybe on the lower lines...still young, but already pretty big and strong...wiz had some good stuff on him too