No, doesn't mean they don't. Point is, I HAVE heard Shaw's name included in a lot of packages the Hawks have floated over the last couple of years. NEVER Kruger's. And I know for a fact the Hawks walked away from a deal with Washington a couple of years ago when McPhee asked for Kruger.

Look, I don't hate Shaw. I like some of the things he brings. Kid works hard and has underrated hands. But he takes some dumb, dumb penalties and what he is today is all he ever will be, sort of a tweener who is better on the wing than at C.

Kruger still has upside, kid is still physically immature. Thinks the game at a very high level, 57% in the dot last year, best on the team (including JT), works tirelessly to improve, can pass the puck, and is outstanding defensively. Also a true center, not a wing playing out of position.
- John Jaeckel

What is Vancouver looking for in a return for Kesler?
Is it a return similar to LAs with the M Richards trade? I understand that MR didnt ask for a trade in Philly but they both have similar traits, the biggest one obviously being a Center

WTF does Scotty have to do with this?

Oh wait, it was Scotty who tipped the Hawks to draft KRUGER! Wiz can verify. So what are you talking about?

How many goals did Rob Brown score one year? Something like 40? Jimmy Carson? Remember him? Goals? Do you realize what Kruger does on the ice? I'm just telling you, the Hawks will put Shaw's name out there. They've walked away from the table when teams asked for Kruger. Fact.

You wanna keep going?
- John Jaeckel

Alot of great little plays in his own end and absorbing hits to make a play that go unnoticed in a hockey world obsessed with points, +/-, etc. And he earns peanuts if you compare to plenty of other names on the roster.

No, doesn't mean they don't. Point is, I HAVE heard Shaw's name included in a lot of packages the Hawks have floated over the last couple of years. NEVER Kruger's. And I know for a fact the Hawks walked away from a deal with Washington a couple of years ago when McPhee asked for Kruger.

Look, I don't hate Shaw. I like some of the things he brings. Kid works hard and has underrated hands. But he takes some dumb, dumb penalties and what he is today is all he ever will be, sort of a tweener who is better on the wing than at C.

Kruger still has upside, kid is still physically immature. Thinks the game at a very high level, 57% in the dot last year, best on the team (including JT), works tirelessly to improve, can pass the puck, and is outstanding defensively. Also a true center, not a wing playing out of position.
- John Jaeckel

I like Kruger - his line last year (with Bollig and Smith) certainly met expectations. I agree with much of your analysis above.

But he's 24: when does this physical maturation take place?

One advantage in FO% that Kruger had that JT did not is Smith took many draws on Krugers weak side
- reeder16

True, still he improved immensely over 2013

Alot of great little plays in his own end and absorbing hits to make a play that go unnoticed in a hockey world obsessed with points, +/-, etc. And he earns peanuts if you compare to plenty of other names on the roster.
- RickJ

Thank you. And from a guy who knows of what he speaks.

True, still he improved immensely over 2013
- John Jaeckel

Agreed!

No, doesn't mean they don't. Point is, I HAVE heard Shaw's name included in a lot of packages the Hawks have floated over the last couple of years. NEVER Kruger's. And I know for a fact the Hawks walked away from a deal with Washington a couple of years ago when McPhee asked for Kruger.

Look, I don't hate Shaw. I like some of the things he brings. Kid works hard and has underrated hands. But he takes some dumb, dumb penalties and what he is today is all he ever will be, sort of a tweener who is better on the wing than at C.

Kruger still has upside, kid is still physically immature. Thinks the game at a very high level, 57% in the dot last year, best on the team (including JT), works tirelessly to improve, can pass the puck, and is outstanding defensively. Also a true center, not a wing playing out of position.
- John Jaeckel

If it ever came down to dealing Shaw or Kruger I have no doubt Kruger stays and I understand that to get a quality forward you have to give up quality. However, I don't think now is the time to deal Shaw (not that anyone is suggesting it). Given his cap his and ability to move around in the top 6 it doesn't make sense to move him now.

True, still he improved immensely over 2013
- John Jaeckel

I believe if Kruger played against some of the centres that Shaw did over the last 2 seasons, he'd put up more points. He's been used primarily in a shut down role. More there to give, offensively

I like Kruger - his line last year (with Bollig and Smith) certainly met expectations. I agree with much of your analysis above.

But he's 24: when does this physical maturation take place?
- StLBravesFan

Just turned 24, but point taken. I don't know what he does in the offseason, other than practicing face-offs, but he can definitely get bigger and stronger.

Fair enough. I just don't get your point about Scotty. Scotty basically discovered Kruger (for the Hawks). And I'm sorry, scoring goals is but ONE metric of a good hockey player. Lots of guys who can't play for squat over 200 feet of ice who "score goals." Watch a beer league game. LOL
- John Jaeckel

My point was that Scotty Bowman is like every other guy who gets paid to scout or draft players. They are wrong about players a lot more than they are right. And you are the one who brought Bowman into the conversation, not me.

Kruger is 24? When will he physically mature? And for someone who thinks the game at a high level, why does he still skate with his head down? I like Kruger but he is just a guy who can and will be replaced when his contract exceeds his value.

I have played and watch this game for 50 years so I don't need to be educated on what wins hockey games.

And if the Hawks think so much of Kruger, why are they paying Shaw more? And to think a 22 who isn't physically mature yet and who had to fight all the odds to make it to the NHL won't work to improve is disingenuous.

Not true. He gets an ELC no matter where he goes.
- mohel

I had to go look up Schultz. His deal was $925k salary but he got over $2.8 mil in bonuses each year. Can an entry level contract have bonuses that high?


I seem to recall when he was about to blow off the Ducks this was the issue, he wanted to be paid like an NHL'er from the start and choose his team.


Check it out:
http://capgeek.com/player/2305

I believe if Kruger played against some of the centres that Shaw did over the last 2 seasons, he'd put up more points. He's been used primarily in a shut down role. More there to give, offensively
- reeder16

Agreed. And I will say this, pound for pound, pound for pound, few guys in th NHL win more pucks along the wall.

All that for a gut with one year left on his contract?
- UnnamedSource

Part salary dump, as well. If Spezza didn't work out, then you could salvage a draft pick next offseason by trading his rights before free agency began. Best case, Spezza works out great and they are possibly able to re-sign him at a decent AAV.

6 AM flight out of El Paso tomorrow morning - good nite all.

the board is getting a bit heated ....imagine a scenario in which the Hawks add a 2C while KEEPING Sharp....Vancouver & Ottawa will not be Cap teams for the next 2+ years...If the Hawks can get Van or Ott to take Versteeg's 2.2 and Leddy's 2.7 that is almost 5 mil off the books...technically the Hawks would be able to take on Kesler's 5 mil cap hit and a solid % of Spezza's in that scenario while keeping their TOP POINT PRODUCER...mid level prospect, Leddy, Versteeg, 27th overall for Kesler/Spezza....

6 AM flight out of El Paso tomorrow morning - good nite all.
- StLBravesFan

Night Sage. Safe travels.

My point was that Scotty Bowman is like every other guy who gets paid to scout or draft players. They are wrong about players a lot more than they are right. And you are the one who brought Bowman into the conversation, not me.

Kruger is 24? When will he physically mature? And for someone who thinks the game at a high level, why does he still skate with his head down? I like Kruger but he is just a guy who can and will be replaced when his contract exceeds his value.

I have played and watch this game for 50 years so I don't need to be educated on what wins hockey games.

And if the Hawks think so much of Kruger, why are they paying Shaw more? And to think a 22 who isn't physically mature yet and who had to fight all the odds to make it to the NHL won't work to improve is disingenuous.
- Elbows15

No one said that, so thanks for putting words in my mouth. Shaw's a tough little bugger for sure. Disingenuous no less? I'm lying?

For example, the Hawks pay Hossa less than Sharp. Who's better? Really? So that argument doesn't really hold water.

And guess what, the guy who make less but plays as well or better—well, to Rick's point, that's the guy you hold on to.

Shaw IS more physically mature than Kruger (regardless of age).

I will end this by saying, my original point WAS there are hockey people who would take Kruger over Shaw, and maybe even Hawk management. Doesn't mean Shaw sucks or that Kruger is categorically better. They are different types of players actually. But if you want to say Shaw is better than Kruger period, ok, but you will get an argument. Like the one(s) you just got.

I had to go look up Schultz. His deal was $925k salary but he got over $2.8 mil in bonuses each year. Can an entry level contract have bonuses that high?


I seem to recall when he was about to blow off the Ducks this was the issue, he wanted to be paid like an NHL'er from the start and choose his team.


Check it out:
http://capgeek.com/player/2305
- Hemingways

This deal was signed before the new CBA was ratified.

I commend you on how you have handled this issue.

I also heard from a Phily source a few years ago that one of the reasons he was dealt was because of a less than honorable relationship that ended badly with Bobby Clarks daughter. The GM at that time.

Not sure about full details, but what is important is that my guy had first hand knowledge that Sharpy was a dirtbag.

BTW, heard that after Sharp punched Kane in the face, Everyone present was shocked by the fact Sharp did not hit him square in the chest, like he typically does when he shoots.
- TrueGrit

Kaner should pull a Ryne Sandberg, go into uncle John & say "you want me to sign, get rid of this guy , right now, it's either him or me!"
I wish Kaner would have reared back & busted Sharp right back in the mouth!, let that pretty boy little A hole go hide behind his Mix buddy Eric then!
I hope it is Shart for Louie Erickson, maybe Ek will finally get 1 right!

I hope not.....but they did acquire him in a trade so that's not a guarantee.
- UnnamedSource

Stan and Co. gave up a 2nd rounder and barely gave the guy a handful of games in Chicago. They see something in Rundblad that not many on this board see obviously. Trading him or tossing him in RFD makes them look pretty silly.

He starts on the roster as 7th or 8th damn. Those 2-way deals like Dahlbeck and Johns gives them flexibility and luxury to see what they have in Rundblad, as well as ease any youngsters in on the blue line.

This deal was signed before the new CBA was ratified.
- Tanuki

Ahh, ok, thanks.

No one said that, so thanks for putting words in my mouth. Shaw's a tough little bugger for sure. Disingenuous no less? I'm lying?

For example, the Hawks pay Hossa less than Sharp. Who's better? Really? So that argument doesn't really hold water.

And guess what, the guy who make less but plays as well or better—well, to Rick's point, that's the guy you hold on to.

Shaw IS more physically mature than Kruger (regardless of age).
- John Jaeckel

Since Hossa and Sharp signed their contracts at different times, it really isn't a valid comparison. Shaw and Kruger both signed their extensions at the same time.

Your comment that Shaw is what he will be infers you don't believe he will improve. And who was moved to first line duties when Toews was out? It wasn't Kruger.

I had to go look up Schultz. His deal was $925k salary but he got over $2.8 mil in bonuses each year. Can an entry level contract have bonuses that high?


I seem to recall when he was about to blow off the Ducks this was the issue, he wanted to be paid like an NHL'er from the start and choose his team.


Check it out:
http://capgeek.com/player/2305
- Hemingways

Did Schultz actually earn those bonuses or were they in the contract but totally unachievable - like Braden Schenn's when he signed with LA?

Teams like the Oilers, Flames, Islanders etc have one thing they can promise - if you sign with us you are going to play. The Hawks can't and won't do that with Kevin Hayes and thats likely the reason they can't get his signature on a contract.

For all I know Hayes may only be good enough to make teams like the Flames and Oilers and thereby get some playing time with a bad NHL team instead of grinding it out for awhile in the AHL. If that's what he wants, who really cares about losing him.

Thanks Jeff.

Kesler should be a wing. Peter Regin is an adequate 2nd line center for a championship club in the NHL. What else can you enlighten us with because your kid plays pee wees?
- John Jaeckel

Was this necessary?

lol, look at Kopitar doing his best Frankenstein impression during the NHL Awards.


http://darthtulip.tumblr....ke-j-selke-award-nominees