No argument except Sharp brings some dressing room props that NO ONE on the market today does. NO ONE. Tell me one player that Van can get back for keeler who has the skins Sharp does on the wall. And then tell me who the leaders are, at present, in the vancouver dressing room? The Twins? Bieksa?

My feeling has been (for years) that player leadership has been a huge problem for Van.

But I hear you, they are much better off going young. But proven young (like Saad, who I hear they are very hot for) is better than draft picks or less proven young (like Etem).

Leddy, TT and a late first? Who's offering as good or better? Tell me.
- John Jaeckel

I think it is about Saad. It is only about Saad. And, I think Anahiem is going to force the Hawks into having to decide yes or no on Saad. If Anahiem loses on Kesler they will focus on Spezza.

Zamboni time.

A question for those who know every finest detail about our cap situation: If we hypothetically were to shed Rozsival, Regin, and Versteeg(somehow), could we then afford a Leddy, TT, + 1st rd pick for Kesler deal AND still sign Smith, Morin, Raanta, and Brookbank?

I think it is about Saad. It is only about Saad. And, I think Anahiem is going to force the Hawks into having to decide yes or no on Saad. If Anahiem loses on Kesler they will focus on Spezza.
- spatso

Already decided: no.

Answer wont change.

If that is indeed and offer I agree it's the best deal but with just under a week until Draft Day, I feel I would hold out until the end and play it up like there is something better out there.
- WhatTheNuck

If the Hawks are putting Leddy, TT and a late first on the table for Ryan Kesler, Benning should forget anything about a Vancouver-Chicago rivalry and do the deal.

This is a BUYERS MARKET for centers: Spezza, Kesler, Richards, Thornton, Plekanec and ore unlike any other in recent years.

I heard months back that was the sort of parameters of an offer the Hawks made, but I think they wanted a little more back and they probably should.

If we make a deal with Vancouver for Kesler I hope Stan finds a way to get Tanev. I've suggested Tanev for a while and if we give up Leddy he'd be an excellent addition to our defense. He's very underrated and plays a solid overall game, he's extremely calm with th puck and makes good decisions. If I'm Stan I do my best to get Tanev as well as Kesler.

Someone has a new post up that Lindros is the greatest player in NHL history, by far.

I think it is about Saad. It is only about Saad. And, I think Anahiem is going to force the Hawks into having to decide yes or no on Saad. If Anahiem loses on Kesler they will focus on Spezza.
- spatso

What with Emerson Etem and a draft pick that could easily be another Kyle Beach?

Tell me what Anaheim will offer that's better than Leddy and Teravainen for example.

I am telling you, believe what you want, but the Hawks walked away from this deal about a week ago because of Saad. It was VANCOUVER that came back yesterday. What does that tell you?

Oh could be.

But they also aren't getting Crosby or Toews or Stamkos for Kesler. Point is, at some point, like the Gillis Fiasco with Lu, you have to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. Are the Canucks winning a Cup next year with or without Kesler? No. Are they trending up or down over the last couple of seasons. Down.

You want to win Cups. If you have an asset who wants out, you make the best deal you can to help rebuild—sooner rather than later, not stay in a holding pattern of mediocrity.
- John Jaeckel

Mediocrity! I wish lol. At the end of the day if Kesler gets dealt it will be on the teams terms, unlike the previous management practice.

What with Emerson Etem and a draft pick that could easily be another Kyle Beach?

Tell me what Anaheim will offer that's better than Leddy and Teravainen for example.

I am telling you, believe what you want, but the Hawks walked away from this deal about a week ago because of Saad. It was VANCOUVER that came back yesterday. What does that tell you?
- John Jaeckel

It tells me Kesler probably doesn't want to go anywhere else. The issue Benning has is to not let Chicago know that.

It tells me Kesler probably doesn't want to go anywhere else. The issue Benning has is to not let Chicago know that.
- WhatTheNuck

Except that by originally asking for Saad, having Chicago pull away from the deal and having Vancouver come back... it's blatantly obvious to anyone who can connect dots that Kesler wants to come to Chicago, and only Chicago. And Benning is attempting to get the best deal he can from Chicago under those unfortunate (for the Canucks) circumstances.

Mediocrity! I wish lol. At the end of the day if Kesler gets dealt it will be on the teams terms, unlike the previous management practice.
- VanHockeyGuy

Thanks Jim Benning.

12th in the West. Mediocre. Sorry.

Granted they ARE handling it better than Gillis did with Lu, but you assume a position of power in this your team doesn't really have. The market for Kesler is not going to get better any time soon. And what if he gets hurt?

But some Vancouver fans make this same argument every year.

A question for those who know every finest detail about our cap situation: If we hypothetically were to shed Rozsival, Regin, and Versteeg(somehow), could we then afford a Leddy, TT, + 1st rd pick for Kesler deal AND still sign Smith, Morin, Raanta, and Brookbank?
- SimpleJack

The Hawks cap numbers are here: http://capgeek.com/blackhawks/

Regin is a free agent. Rozy and Versteeg are 4.2 mil combined, but would have to be replaced, figure $750k minimum just to not have a complete bum taking their spots. So $1.5 mil, minimum, saving $2.7. Leddy is $2.7, but he would have to be replaced. $4.6 mil open before making any moves, IF the cap goes up to $71 mil, which we won't know for a week. Brookbank made $1 mil. and would have to come back for less, I'd rather have a different dman anyway. Raanta made $1.4 and might be in line for an offer sheet with a raise, we'll see in July. Morin and Smith likely will be around $800k or so, maybe even $1 mil for Smith, who knows, but not likely any more. Kesler has a cap hit of $5 mil each of next two seasons. Bottom line, maybe they could squeak by but it would leave no room for calling people up, they like to keep some money in reserve for that and if they need to make a trade.

http://s1270.photobucket....]=1&sort=1&o=0[img][/img]


Kesler hanging out in Chicago already?

What with Emerson Etem and a draft pick that could easily be another Kyle Beach?

Tell me what Anaheim will offer that's better than Leddy and Teravainen for example.

I am telling you, believe what you want, but the Hawks walked away from this deal about a week ago because of Saad. It was VANCOUVER that came back yesterday. What does that tell you?
- John Jaeckel

I am watching it from an Ottawa/Spezza perspective and it is pretty clear Anaheim holds the best cards. They have a great field of prospects. They also have the #10 pick which Ottawa wants back. Vancouver wants #10 because they want to try and move up to the top of the draft. Hard to deal with a team that moves into full rebuild mode and plans to start the season without a serious goalie.

Except that by originally asking for Saad, having Chicago pull away from the deal and having Vancouver come back... it's blatantly obvious to anyone who can connect dots that Kesler wants to come to Chicago, and only Chicago. And Benning is attempting to get the best deal he can from Chicago under those unfortunate (for the Canucks) circumstances.
- CaptainBlackhawk

Close but probably not exactly. Bottom line is Benning has to evaluate the offers of the teams on Kesler's list, which I believe is 6 teams. He is an idiot if he doesn't take the best offer and probably sooner rather than later. Despite what some Vancouver fans are saying, drawing this out is risky at best.

Oh could be.

But they also aren't getting Crosby or Toews or Stamkos for Kesler. Point is, at some point, like the Gillis Fiasco with Lu, you have to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. Are the Canucks winning a Cup next year with or without Kesler? No. Are they trending up or down over the last couple of seasons. Down.

You want to win Cups. If you have an asset who wants out, you make the best deal you can to help rebuild—sooner rather than later, not stay in a holding pattern of mediocrity.
- John Jaeckel

Agreed. If we keep Kesler for another season his trade value will diminish IMO. I think Benning will move him to help build a package for the #1 draft position. Plus you know how the hockey gods LOVE Vancouver...Kesler goes down with an injury and then that will really hurt our chances of landing something decent. As I said before Gillis left this team in such a mess. Im glad that He is gone!!

Except that by originally asking for Saad, having Chicago pull away from the deal and having Vancouver come back... it's blatantly obvious to anyone who can connect dots that Kesler wants to come to Chicago, and only Chicago. And Benning is attempting to get the best deal he can from Chicago under those unfortunate (for the Canucks) circumstances.
- CaptainBlackhawk

Well said but I still think Benning has the upper hand because he doesn't have to trade Kesler. I think he will get traded personally.

My two starting points:

CHI: Kesler for Shaw, Leddy, & 1st

ANA: Kesler for Etem, 10th & 24th


Overpayment or not, I can't help but feel that we really need a win in a trade after losing out on Schneider and Luongo so badly. Being a weaker draft, I don't think the 10th & 24th is too much to give up. If we go the ANA route, Reinhart is more of a possibility too I think. Probably dreaming.....

http://s1270.photobucket....]=1&sort=1&o=0[img][/img]


Kesler hanging out in Chicago already?

Do you know of any roadway/highway signs that are specifically in Spanish in Chicago? I don't

In fact, that photo was taken at the World Cup.

Close but probably not exactly. Bottom line is Benning has to evaluate the offers of the teams on Kesler's list, which I believe is 6 teams. He is an idiot if he doesn't take the best offer and probably sooner rather than later. Despite what some Vancouver fans are saying, drawing this out is risky at best.
- John Jaeckel

Roberto Luongo part 2. It's fun to watch yet again!

I am watching it from an Ottawa/Spezza perspective and it is pretty clear Anaheim holds the best cards. They have a great field of prospects. They also have the #10 pick which Ottawa wants back. Vancouver wants #10 because they want to try and move up to the top of the draft. Hard to deal with a team that moves into full rebuild mode and plans to start the season without a serious goalie.
- spatso

So you're saying the #10 pick (in a Weak draft) and a possibility to package it to move up is more attractive than Leddy and/or Teravainen? Not sure I agree.

And is Anaheim on Kesler's list? No one has answered this yet. If not, then you know why Anaheim is hot for Spezza. At least, you should know.

The Hawks cap numbers are here: http://capgeek.com/blackhawks/

Regin is a free agent. Rozy and Versteeg are 4.2 mil combined, but would have to be replaced, figure $750k minimum just to not have a complete bum taking their spots. So $1.5 mil, minimum, saving $2.7. Leddy is $2.7, but he would have to be replaced. $4.6 mil open before making any moves, IF the cap goes up to $71 mil, which we won't know for a week. Brookbank made $1 mil. and would have to come back for less, I'd rather have a different dman anyway. Raanta made $1.4 and might be in line for an offer sheet with a raise, we'll see in July. Morin and Smith likely will be around $800k or so, maybe even $1 mil for Smith, who knows, but not likely any more. Kesler has a cap hit of $5 mil each of next two seasons. Bottom line, maybe they could squeak by but it would leave no room for calling people up, they like to keep some money in reserve for that and if they need to make a trade.
- Hemingways

Thx

I figured it would be a tight fit. But that deal is probly the only major move id be willing to make, if we could make it work....but as you pointed out it leaves us with basically no flexibility.

http://s1270.photobucket....]=1&sort=1&o=0[img][/img]


Kesler hanging out in Chicago already?

Think that's Brasil Doc.

So you're saying the #10 pick (in a Weak draft) and a possibility to package it to move up is more attractive than Leddy and/or Teravainen? Not sure I agree.

And is Anaheim on Kesler's list? No one has answered this yet. If not, then you know why Anaheim is hot for Spezza. At least, you should know.
- John Jaeckel

I think the ANA trade makes it more likely that Reinhart is a possibility for VAN. The picks might be able to be packaged with a smaller piece than what Florida would want with just the 6th.

Well said but I still think Benning has the upper hand because he doesn't have to trade Kesler. I think he will get traded personally.

My two starting points:

CHI: Kesler for Shaw, Leddy, & 1st

ANA: Kesler for Etem, 10th & 24th


Overpayment or not, I can't help but feel that we really need a win in a trade after losing out on Schneider and Luongo so badly. Being a weaker draft, I don't think the 10th & 24th is too much to give up. If we go the ANA route, Reinhart is more of a possibility too I think. Probably dreaming.....
- WhatTheNuck

Two proven NHL players (one with upside) and a late first rounder for one kinda prospect-ish player (67 NHL GP, 10 goals, 11 assists) and a late first.

Which is the better offer?

And which is if the Hawks put TT in instead of Shaw?

And is Anaheim on Kesler's list (broken record time).