In 4 years......there's something to be said about durability.
- golfingsince

100% Bubba. Way less questions with Thornton .

100% Bubba. Way less questions with Thornton .
- Jeropotato

less questions about injury.....but he is 5 years older. realistically, if you trade for spezza, you're likely getting 5-7 years of service out of him. if you get thornton, realistically, you're getting only 2-3.

i think their offensive production is pretty close.

spezza is younger, thornton is less injury prone.

i think thornton is worth more, but not much more.

edit: 4 years older.....thought he was turning 36. my point remains the same though.

i'm not sure why this is even a discussion, thornton will be a non-factor. i can't see SJ moving him, i can see him waiving his NTC even less.....and if he does, i'm willing to be that his list of teams is probably pretty damn short, like 1 team. i'm just assuming, but all the "experts" have been pretty confident in the fact that thornton is going anywhere, and if they move anyone, it's gonna be marleau.

Highly doubtful Blues would trade Shattenkirk for Spezza straight up, let alone give up their top prospect as well, regardless of what minor parts Ottawa adds. Shattenkirk is a young, top pairing defenseman locked into a good contract. I realize most Ottawa fans don't see many Blues games, but Shattenkirk was selected for the US Olympic team over guys like Eric Johnson & Jack Johnson, both number one defensemen on playoff teams, as well as guys like Yandle & Byfuglien, also top pairing guys on their teams. So this isn't just being a homer. Trading Shattenkirk would open a massive hole on our blue line. Blues are better off standing pat, or if we want to give up Shattenkirk, we can get a lot better than one year of Jason Spezza.
- Antilles

And remind me how did that olympic team do again?

I'm just busting your balls, I agree with you regarding Shattenkirk's value being higher than a lot of guys in here are giving credit for, just saying I would never give someone credit for being picked for a Brian Burke team.

I think we'd have to hope St Louis values Methot enough to package him and Spezza for Shattenkirk and maybe Berglund.

Everything quiet on the Spezza front. There was a lot of noise before but nothing coming from Murray or the Senators since his NY comments. All reports seem to suggest it is coming down to a head to head between Anahiem and St. Louis. But, almost always in competitive bidding like this it is the guy in the deep weeds, the guy nobody is talking about who finally gets the job done.

The fact that Murray and Michalek are talking contract further suggests that Ottawa has a pretty good idea what is coming back in a Spezza deal. Perhaps a DMan?

And remind me how did that olympic team do again?

I'm just busting your balls, I agree with you regarding Shattenkirk's value being higher than a lot of guys in here are giving credit for, just saying I would never give someone credit for being picked for a Brian Burke team.

I think we'd have to hope St Louis values Methot enough to package him and Spezza for Shattenkirk and maybe Berglund.
- TommyDeVito

I still don't think shattenkirk is the kind of d-man ottawa needs. i'm not saying he isn't a good player, obviously he is, but he's not a guy that ottawa should overpay for. i honestly believe that if he's given consistent top 4 minutes, wiercioch could develop into a player who's close to being on par with shattenkirk. maybe not as good, but close enough.

ottawa needs an "all around" guy to play with karlsson. someone who can join the rush when needed, but who is also responsible and solid in his own end and can stay back when karlsson decides to jump up. a guy who can play on the PP and PK, etc. as gross as this is to say, someone like phaneuf (although i wouldn't touch him with that contract)

I still don't think shattenkirk is the kind of d-man ottawa needs. i'm not saying he isn't a good player, obviously he is, but he's not a guy that ottawa should overpay for. i honestly believe that if he's given consistent top 4 minutes, wiercioch could develop into a player who's close to being on par with shattenkirk. maybe not as good, but close enough.

ottawa needs an "all around" guy to play with karlsson. someone who can join the rush when needed, but who is also responsible and solid in his own end and can stay back when karlsson decides to jump up. a guy who can play on the PP and PK, etc. as gross as this is to say, someone like phaneuf (although i wouldn't touch him with that contract)
- sensarmy_11

I would actually like to see the Sens get a big fast winger and a high-end prospect/pick combo back for Spezza, then throw 5 million a season at Stralman in FA.

His 3 year Rel Corsi and Fenwick averages show that he is in fact that all around guy, being undervalued in New York.

I would actually like to see the Sens get a big fast winger and a high-end prospect/pick combo back for Spezza, then throw 5 million a season at Stralman in FA.

His 3 year Rel Corsi and Fenwick averages show that he is in fact that all around guy, being undervalued in New York.
- TommyDeVito

i'm down with that 100%.....make karlsson happy, give him a swedish partner.

I would actually like to see the Sens get a big fast winger and a high-end prospect/pick combo back for Spezza, then throw 5 million a season at Stralman in FA.

His 3 year Rel Corsi and Fenwick averages show that he is in fact that all around guy, being undervalued in New York.
- TommyDeVito

do you think anaheim would do Smith-Pelley and a 1st (probably theirs not ours) for spezza. that would be SUPER

edit:

if they did do that trade, move lazar to the wing, and roll with a "kid" 2nd line to develop them:

smith-pelly - zibby - lazar

do you think anaheim would do Smith-Pelley and a 1st (probably theirs not ours) for spezza. that would be SUPER
- sensarmy_11

I think you are on the low side in your expectations on what Murray can get back. Murray has said he wants a top 6 skater, a top prospect and a pick. I assume the top 6 skater could be replaced by a top 4 Dman.

So, a GM makes his offer of Berglund, a prospect and a #1. Not a great package, it is probably a 3rd or 4th rated prospect and the pick is just a few breaths short of the second round. Anahiem makes their ante, something similar to St. Louis but includes a top 6, a prospect and a pick. A few other teams make their offers. Early we had the Ranger rumor of Staal and whatever.

Everybody understands there is only one part of the deal really matters. You need to get either a very good player, a very good prospect or a very good pick. But it is greedy to think you will get all three unless Ottawa adds something else into the pot.

I think you are on the low side in your expectations on what Murray can get back. Murray has said he wants a top 6 skater, a top prospect and a pick. I assume the top 6 skater could be replaced by a top 4 Dman.

So, a GM makes his offer of Berglund, a prospect and a #1. Not a great package, it is probably a 3rd or 4th rated prospect and the pick is just a few breaths short of the second round. Anahiem makes their ante, something similar to St. Louis but includes a top 6, a prospect and a pick. A few other teams make their offers. Early we had the Ranger rumor of Staal and whatever.

Everybody understands there is only one part of the deal really matters. You need to get either a very good player, a very good prospect or a very good pick. But it is greedy to think you will all three unless Ottawa adds something else into the pot.
- spatso

well, i think smith-pelly is an EXCELLENT prospect, so keep the "so so" roster player, and give us our pick instead. i'd be happy with that.

i'd take smith-pelly and the 10th pick over any package that has been offered (supposedly) so far (cgy, stl, nyr)

do you think anaheim would do Smith-Pelley and a 1st (probably theirs not ours) for spezza. that would be SUPER

edit:

if they did do that trade, move lazar to the wing, and roll with a "kid" 2nd line to develop them:

smith-pelly - zibby - lazar
- sensarmy_11

I could sign on to that deal.

well, i think smith-pelly is an EXCELLENT prospect, so keep the "so so" roster player, and give us our pick instead. i'd be happy with that.

i'd take smith-pelly and the 10th pick over any package that has been offered (supposedly) so far (cgy, stl, nyr)
- sensarmy_11

That is my favorite package as well, until I hear a better one.

well, i think smith-pelly is an EXCELLENT prospect, so keep the "so so" roster player, and give us our pick instead. i'd be happy with that.

i'd take smith-pelly and the 10th pick over any package that has been offered (supposedly) so far (cgy, stl, nyr)
- sensarmy_11

I think most Sens fans would be happy with that return..

That is my favorite package as well, until I hear a better one.
- spatso

if you hear a better one. not sure anaheim would go for that.

OK here you go boys,

Seriously some teams have a serious chance at changing overnight via trade/UFA

To OTT
Michalek,H.Samuelson, First

TO PHX
Spezza, Wiercoch

Samuelson and Lazar can be a handfull for years to come

To OTT
Daley, Ritchie, First

TO DAL
Spezza, Weircoch

Stephen Weiss, Joakim Andersson, Riley Sheahan, Jakub Kindl, Brendan Smith, Adam Almquist, and 15th Overall Pick

for

Jason Spezza, Chris Neil, Erik Karlsson, and Chris Phillips

Edit: Allow me to elaborate (I know close to 0 Senators fans are going to be happy with the idea of Karlsson being traded, so please don't highlight that.) Weiss is the same age as Spezza, but he's a natural leader and two-way center. Was productive in his career until injury woes. A fresh start and new groin might be what he needs to regain that form. Andersson is elite defensively and in key-draw situations, however average in every other aspect. Sheahan can do anything and everything (including play defense). Likely 40-60 point producer for a decade depending on his situation (2nd or 3rd line). Kindl needs a change of scenery. Good offensive skills. Average defensively. Smith is a Top-4 defenseman with elite offensive talent and skating. Never given PP time in Detroit. Hockey IQ questionable at times. Almquist is Karlsson-lite. Same cognitive skills without the skating (average to above-average). Won't get playing time in Detroit for some unknown reason (to me).

Spezza obviously wants out, and the team doesn't want him. As far as I know most fans don't want Neil or Phillips anymore, so we'll take those guys for cap and salary relief as well as roster openings. And Karlsson is Karlsson. I just wanted to expand on a trade.

Stephen Weiss, Joakim Andersson, Riley Sheahan, Jakub Kindl, Brendan Smith, Adam Almquist, and 15th Overall Pick

for

Jason Spezza, Chris Neil, Erik Karlsson, and Chris Phillips
- TwoPieceFeed

go away

go away
- sensarmy_11

Jerk.

Stephen Weiss, Joakim Andersson, Riley Sheahan, Jakub Kindl, Brendan Smith, Adam Almquist, and 15th Overall Pick

for

Jason Spezza, Chris Neil, Erik Karlsson, and Chris Phillips
- TwoPieceFeed

All of Detroit's players are either too old or lacking in skill. Do you think any team has any interest in more than a couple of your players. It amazes me how they keep struggling into the last playoff spot, get blown out in the playoffs and then say we will try a few more UFA's, trade our few remaining prospects and hope we can limp across the finish line one more time. At some point Detroit fans need to insist on a better plan.

All of Detroit's players are either too old or lacking in skill. Do you think any team has any interest in more than a couple of your players. It amazes me how they keep struggling into the last playoff spot, get blown out in the playoffs and then say we will try a few more UFA's, trade our few remaining prospects and hope we can limp across the finish line one more time. At some point Detroit fans need to insist on a better plan.
- spatso

i'm pretty sure his proposition was a joke (i hope it was)........pretty sure a bunch of B an C prospects, and a couple of old bad contracts, aren't gonna get you spezza and kalsson.....not even close to getting you karlsson all alone

I still don't think shattenkirk is the kind of d-man ottawa needs. i'm not saying he isn't a good player, obviously he is, but he's not a guy that ottawa should overpay for. i honestly believe that if he's given consistent top 4 minutes, wiercioch could develop into a player who's close to being on par with shattenkirk. maybe not as good, but close enough.

ottawa needs an "all around" guy to play with karlsson. someone who can join the rush when needed, but who is also responsible and solid in his own end and can stay back when karlsson decides to jump up. a guy who can play on the PP and PK, etc. as gross as this is to say, someone like phaneuf (although i wouldn't touch him with that contract)
- sensarmy_11

I think Shattenkirk is exactly what you described and would be a very good return for Spezza.

All of Detroit's players are either too old or lacking in skill. Do you think any team has any interest in more than a couple of your players. It amazes me how they keep struggling into the last playoff spot, get blown out in the playoffs and then say we will try a few more UFA's, trade our few remaining prospects and hope we can limp across the finish line one more time. At some point Detroit fans need to insist on a better plan.
- spatso

Did you watch the 2013 playoffs? I know you saw Toronto get blown out of the water, but did you watch the rest..? Get back to me.

Stephen Weiss, Joakim Andersson, Riley Sheahan, Jakub Kindl, Brendan Smith, Adam Almquist, and 15th Overall Pick

for

Jason Spezza, Chris Neil, Erik Karlsson, and Chris Phillips

Edit: Allow me to elaborate (I know close to 0 Senators fans are going to be happy with the idea of Karlsson being traded, so please don't highlight that.) Weiss is the same age as Spezza, but he's a natural leader and two-way center. Was productive in his career until injury woes. A fresh start and new groin might be what he needs to regain that form. Andersson is elite defensively and in key-draw situations, however average in every other aspect. Sheahan can do anything and everything (including play defense). Likely 40-60 point producer for a decade depending on his situation (2nd or 3rd line). Kindl needs a change of scenery. Good offensive skills. Average defensively. Smith is a Top-4 defenseman with elite offensive talent and skating. Never given PP time in Detroit. Hockey IQ questionable at times. Almquist is Karlsson-lite. Same cognitive skills without the skating (average to above-average). Won't get playing time in Detroit for some unknown reason (to me).

Spezza obviously wants out, and the team doesn't want him. As far as I know most fans don't want Neil or Phillips anymore, so we'll take those guys for cap and salary relief as well as roster openings. And Karlsson is Karlsson. I just wanted to expand on a trade.
- TwoPieceFeed

This is one of the most elaborate, humorless jokes ever, or one of the worst suggestions ever.

The "justification" just made it more comical, which is quite a feat.

i'm pretty sure his proposition was a joke (i hope it was)........pretty sure a bunch of B an C prospects, and a couple of old bad contracts, aren't gonna get you spezza and kalsson.....not even close to getting you karlsson all alone
- sensarmy_11

None of the contracts for the players I proposed to Ottawa (other than possibly Weiss') are "old" or "bad". In fact, I expanded on the trade to include your "old bad" contracts.

I think Shattenkirk is exactly what you described and would be a very good return for Spezza.
- Aetherial

granted, i don't see him play much, but i've been told he's essentially "karlsson-lite". very good offensively, very average defensively