I think this whole exercise doesn't really paint a fair picture of Coburn.
- BulliesPhan87

Yeah, put Coburn on SJ's D in place of Vlasic and I don't think they miss a beat. Ditto STL for Bouwmeester, or the Rangers for Girardi (if he goes RH'd).

On the other hand, our supporting cast on D would make anybody look bad.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the point was. If he's saying that Coburn's a bad #1 defenseman, then yes. But the thing is, he's not a #1 defenseman.
- jmatchett383

I think we can all agree that Coburn shouldn't be used as a #1 but we are and that's an issue. It doesn't mean trade him, it does mean we need a better option as our #1.

Caps fans hate on Carlson almost as much as our fans hate on Coburn.

Columbus has Ryan Murray... it won't be long before he's deemed 'better' than Coburn.

Brian Campbell, for as much as he's paid, is actually one of the most underrated #1 dmen in the league... guys is pretty snazzy.
- Tomahawk

I'd take Carlson for Coburn straight up.

Ryan Murray has yet to show me anything at all. Potential, sure, but not now.

Brian Campbell may be better, but all things considered, I'll keep Coburn.

I think we can all agree that Coburn shouldn't be used as a #1 but we are and that's an issue. It doesn't mean trade him, it does mean we need a better option as our #1.
- FlyersGrace

That's an indictment of the organization's inability to produce a true #1 defenseman, not an indictment of Coburn's abilities.

Thats not Coburn's fault
- PhillySportsGuy

I know. It's Holmgren's fault.

So when does Timonen announce if he's retiring? After the draft? After FA?
when do you think we will hear something?

I know. It's Holmgren's fault.
- PLindbergh31

It's not even Homer's fault. He tried every avenue possible to obtain a top defenseman short of gutting the team, and I commend him for that.

That's an indictment of the organization's inability to produce a true #1 defenseman, not an indictment of Coburn's abilities.
- jmatchett383

There's a whole lot of indictment going on here...

So when does Timonen announce if he's retiring? After the draft? After FA?
when do you think we will hear something?
- FlyersGrace

What I'd honestly like to see Timonen do?

Sign with NYR or NJ for like $3M, and then just not play. Not retire, just not play.

What I'd honestly like to see Timonen do?

Sign with NYR or NJ for like $3M, and then just not play. Not retire, just not play.
- jmatchett383

Yeah, I'm not sure what the point was. If he's saying that Coburn's a bad #1 defenseman, then yes. But the thing is, he's not a #1 defenseman.
- jmatchett383

I believe the point was that the Flyers lack a top defender. But we really don't need an exercise in player bashing to know that, it's been very, very apparent for multiple seasons now.

So when does Timonen announce if he's retiring? After the draft? After FA?
when do you think we will hear something?
- FlyersGrace

I'd expect he'll announce he's coming back ( ) by the draft... June 30 at the latest.

So when does Timonen announce if he's retiring? After the draft? After FA?
when do you think we will hear something?
- FlyersGrace

I think he said he was going to announce before FA, so the Flyers knew what they were doing.

He begins his own workouts as well, so he'll need to determine whether he needs to start his training or not.

What I'd honestly like to see Timonen do?

Sign with NYR or NJ for like $3M, and then just not play. Not retire, just not play.
- jmatchett383

Nice.
Not going to happen, but funny. He's too much of a warrior not to play to the best of his ability with whatever contract he signs. Sadly he's lost so much speed I see him as a third pair guy these days. I wouldn't mind re-signing him as a mentor to some of the young guns. But as much as I adore him I also won't begrudge him going someplace else either.

I believe the point was that the Flyers lack a top defender. But we really don't need an exercise in player bashing to know that, it's been very, very apparent for multiple seasons now.
- BulliesPhan87

Well then...yes. That's crystal clear. Why did we need to start picking apart Coburn's game to know this? May as well pick apart Grossmann's game or Luke's game for that matter.

Round 2: Can you name a team with at least one better defenseman than Andrew MacDonald?

Well then...yes. That's crystal clear. Why did we need to start picking apart Coburn's game to know this? May as well pick apart Grossmann's game or Luke's game for that matter.

Round 2: Can you name a team with at least one better defenseman than Andrew MacDonald?
- jmatchett383

Only one team here.

The Flyers, and Coburn

Round 2: Can you name a team with at least one better defenseman than Andrew MacDonald?
- jmatchett383

Unpossible.

Well then...yes. That's crystal clear. Why did we need to start picking apart Coburn's game to know this? May as well pick apart Grossmann's game or Luke's game for that matter.

Round 2: Can you name a team with at least one better defenseman than Andrew MacDonald?
- jmatchett383

I think this is a trick question...

Nice.
Not going to happen, but funny. He's too much of a warrior not to play to the best of his ability with whatever contract he signs. Sadly he's lost so much speed I see him as a third pair guy these days. I wouldn't mind re-signing him as a mentor to some of the young guns. But as much as I adore him I also won't begrudge him going someplace else either.
- FlyersGrace

I think he'll stay here. He seems to like it here.

It's not even Homer's fault. He tried every avenue possible to obtain a top defenseman short of gutting the team, and I commend him for that.
- jmatchett383

When you try and don't get the job done, you don't get paid!

Yeah, it's just one thing to consider... the Kings drafted by that same philosophy, but they still took Doughty over a number of guys that were close with more projectable frames (Petro, Schenn, Bogo) -- pretty sure they aren't regretting that decision.

Taking hulking Teubert over Karlsson later that same round... that one deserves a do-over.


- Tomahawk

Drew Doughty isn't small by any means. He's 6'1" and about 215 lbs.

That's an indictment of the organization's inability to produce a true #1 defenseman, not an indictment of Coburn's abilities.
- jmatchett383

...and if our whole organization is guilty, isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do what you you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!

Well then...yes. That's crystal clear. Why did we need to start picking apart Coburn's game to know this? May as well pick apart Grossmann's game or Luke's game for that matter.

Round 2: Can you name a team with at least one better defenseman than Andrew MacDonald?
- jmatchett383

According to my CORSI charts, there are 31 NHL teams with better defensemen.

Drew Doughty isn't small by any means. He's 6'1" and about 215 lbs.
- MJL

LA had their choice down to either Doughty or Bogosian, and they picked the smaller guy.

At the time of the draft, Doughty was 6'0 and had been struggling with his weight... his nickname in junior was "Doughnuts".

Plus there is no guarantee Ekblad will even be as good as Coburn when it all shakes out. Add to that, if he became as good as Coburn now, it would be an excellent pick. Funny how that works out. So why not just keep Coburn?
- MBFlyerfan

I fear for this defensive without Timonen and Coburn. At the same time, I don't want to delay the inevitable when it comes to Timonen. I didn't like that he was held out to rest in a number of games nearing the end of the year. One against a measuring stick like the San Jose Sharks when we needed to collect points the most. Coburn I'm a pretty big fan of and the only way I would move him is if he's apart of a bigger deal that sees the D get upgraded. Just the other day I made a couple suggests. Wrong or right, I was hoping to throw out something for everyone to think about. Would I add Coburn in a deal that brought Weber here if it meant keeping Grossmann and Luke Schenn. If it were even remotely possible, I would but I'm not so sure Weber alone upgrades a D that still features an odd bunch that still includes Grossmann, Schenn and Streit. I believe we should keep Coburn but it still begs the question, how do we get better? The signing of Streit in my mind didn't improve us by much if at all defensively. I also asked if anyone would consider moving Voracek for a pure shooter (JvR or Ryan) because I feel Giroux could be even better with a player who can naturally score. It's a tough question to ask because I like Voracek as much as Coburn but it still begs the question, how do we upgrade? What do we have to offer to upgrade?