Generally, I've always thought trading for a player's rights is poor value. At best, you'll pay them market value, at worst you traded for literally nothing. The player has even more leverage than he did with his previous team because, not only can he walk, you've already invested some asset in getting him signed.

One wrinkle to consider: can a team that acquires a player's rights offer him an eight year contract?
- BulliesPhan87

NO!
With respect to a Player who becomes a Group 2 Restricted Free Agent, a Club
may sign such Player to an SPC with a term of up to eight (8) years
provided such Player was on such Club's Reserve List and/or Restricted
Free Agent List as of and since the most recent Trade Deadline.

touche, well now that ive read it it hadnt occured to me that being able to write off hamhuis allowed us to focus on martin from the start, in that sense i guess it can be a benficial move, but were basically still signing a free agent that anyone can sign and giving up a 3rd round pick, but still I guess I do see how that allowed us to go right after martin and not bother with hamhuis, good stuff!


- JLT168

I wasn't disagreeing with you you shared almost the exact same view as Ryan and even included his example. I never thought about the Martin aspect of it. Worked out well in the end I guess but in the future I'd like to not give up a 3rd to have us be able to focus on a free agent.

NO!
With respect to a Player who becomes a Group 2 Restricted Free Agent, a Club
may sign such Player to an SPC with a term of up to eight (8) years
provided such Player was on such Club's Reserve List and/or Restricted
Free Agent List as of and since the most recent Trade Deadline.
- usethe1-2-2

BOOOOOO

BOOOOOO
- dbell646

Did I just become a big time party pooper?

I wasn't disagreeing with you you shared almost the exact same view as Ryan and even included his example. I never thought about the Martin aspect of it. Worked out well in the end I guess but in the future I'd like to not give up a 3rd to have us be able to focus on a free agent.
- dbell646

right right i didnt think you were , you made a valid point hahaha, i had skimmed through it prior just didnt see the piece on hamuis, honestly regarding hamhuis i never thought he was that good and when he got called to the canada olympic team i was even more surprised, i mean i guess hes an above average skater, and plays somewhat of a physical game, he can move the puck alright, but he isnt huge and last I checked wasnt considered an offensive defenseman per se...but with that being said, nisky could fetch a 3rd rounder i would think as hes just a good a skater, maybe not quite as good defensively but has a better offensive upside...that is if we dont try and keep him

I could see columbus, or edmonton going after him, then again edmonton could probably benefit from any free agent out there...

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a clause specifically regarding teams acquiring rights re: the eighth year. This is the NHL CBA we're talking about here.
- BulliesPhan87

For some reason I thought the player had to start the year with the team signing him...probably wrong though..

NO!
With respect to a Player who becomes a Group 2 Restricted Free Agent, a Club
may sign such Player to an SPC with a term of up to eight (8) years
provided such Player was on such Club's Reserve List and/or Restricted
Free Agent List as of and since the most recent Trade Deadline.
- usethe1-2-2

thank you

thank you
- BulliesPhan87

No problem, it actually took longer to download the entire damn cba then to find the ufa signing clause

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a clause specifically regarding teams acquiring rights re: the eighth year. This is the NHL CBA we're talking about here.
- BulliesPhan87

Just caught it actually. It seems that a player must have been on the team (roster or reserve list) at the last trade deadline to be eligible for the 8 year contract...

alright well ive won the stanley cup in dynasty mode like 2 or 3 times, so i guess I will just take the GM position...my credentials are that nhl13 says im a veteran GM what more could they want?!?!

alright well ive won the stanley cup in dynasty mode like 2 or 3 times, so i guess I will just take the GM position...my credentials are that nhl13 says im a veteran GM what more could they want?!?!
- JLT168

Worth a shot.. Send your resume over to Morehouse.

but there is probably at least one team out there that does not value analytics, that team will think Orpik is the answer to their defense problems.

Like the teams still playing right now?

Worth a shot.. Send your resume over to Morehouse.
- rival22

I actually met sawyer and morehouse before both nice guys...mario coached his kid austin and ive reffed him multiple times its always fun reffing when hes on the bench

errey on the otherhand is just as terrible of a coach as he is an announcer

Just caught it actually. It seems that a player must have been on the team (roster or reserve list) at the last trade deadline to be eligible for the 8 year contract...
- mventres

I should have let the discussion get really intricate on who to trade for what and when everyone was having fun...drop the bomb that you can't do it

I think the pens cant afford niskanen with what other clubs can spend but should be in it for Jussi. I just dont see the market over $3m for him. However, since they only have $16M (est) in cap space, where do they spend it? Do they move neal, letang (pre July 1), martin or MAF because of their cap #?

MAF and martin are in the final yr of their contract. are they worth more to the pens if they trade them now if the new GM determines that they are not in the long term plans?

With neal and letang being signed to long term deals, is a trade option more about the return or the cap space relief?

what does sutter get in arbitration? $3.5-$4M?

Well Pens need a GM before anything will happen... I would laugh if Botterill traded MAF for picks right before they name someone else GM... he just leaves the office, drops the mic and says (frank) it out im out...

I would definitely keep Glass. Great penalty killer, energy guy, can lay big hits, gritty, good team mate ect. Everything you want from him.
- Pens8729

Lord help us....

I don't think that you get anything higher than a 4th rounder for his rights.

I know that we saw a couple of moves last summer, but with the free agent interview window, I can't image why a team would give up too much for a player's UFA rights.

Unless a GM knows that he has a legitimate shot at signing someone, why give up an asset? And if a GM knows he has a shot, there has likely been some back channel tampering going on.

You mentioned Colorado, they do have 3 three 4th round picks, so maybe they do give up one to get a crack at Niskanen.

I can't imagine Niskanen not going to the open market. This is a huge opportunity for him this season, and he'd be foolish to not hear what sort of options he has, both in terms of money, but also in his destination.
- rival22

I think the only situation where a pending UFA's rights have value is when their is a large drop off in value for the position after that player. Niskanen falls into that category very well. See below.

Name Pos Age Tm GP G A P PIM +/- TOI-TOT
Niskanen, Matt » D 27 PIT 81 10 36 46 51 33 21.29
Markov, Andrei » D 35 MTL 81 7 36 43 34 12 25.24
Zidlicky, Marek » D 37 NJD 81 12 30 42 60 -3 21.65
Boyle, Dan » D 37 SJS 75 12 24 36 32 -8 21.28
Timonen, Kimmo » D 39 PHI 77 6 29 35 32 5 20.33
Benoit, Andre » D 30 COL 79 7 21 28 26 2 20.21

Niskanen is the top of the heap in Pts,, +/-, & the youngest by far at age 27. If a team wants/needs a solid Dman on the younger side, its him or nothing.

Still, i kinda agree. 3rd rounder might be the most a team is willing to trade.

I think the pens cant afford niskanen with what other clubs can spend but should be in it for Jussi. I just dont see the market over $3m for him. However, since they only have $16M (est) in cap space, where do they spend it? Do they move neal, letang (pre July 1), martin or MAF because of their cap #?

MAF and martin are in the final yr of their contract. are they worth more to the pens if they trade them now if the new GM determines that they are not in the long term plans?

With neal and letang being signed to long term deals, is a trade option more about the return or the cap space relief?

what does sutter get in arbitration? $3.5-$4M?
- i'mjustafan

Sutter has 32pts (82gms), 19 (48gms), & 26pts (81gms) the past three seasons. Overall, 152 pts in 415gms w/ 40 of those points coming way back in 09-10. He's regressed in PPG year as well going from 0.39PPG to 0.31PPG. I don' think he will really want to go to an arbiter with those numbers.

Also, according to Capgeek Sutter can be tendered at $2.7M. That is slightly higher that what his worth likely is.

Also, $16M should be sufficient for what the Penguins need to do so long as youth is used at D. See below. Based on a $70M Cap w/ 23 players & no trades or buyouts. $548K in Cap Space left over. Players used aren't as important as being able to see what kind of $ the Penguins can send on each roster spot.

Not saying the Penguins shouldn't make any trades to move a player(s), *cough* Scuderi! *cough,* just that it isn't necessarily a "must" in so far as guys like Letang, Fleury, or Neal go from a Cap standpoint.

FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Jussi Jokinen ($3.000m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.000m) / Nikolai Kulemin ($3.000m)
Benoit Pouliot ($2.500m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Brian Gibbons ($0.600m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($7.250m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Simon Despres ($0.851m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,451,333; BONUSES: $68,333
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $548,667

Sutter has 32pts (82gms), 19 (48gms), & 26pts (81gms) the past three seasons. Overall, 152 pts in 415gms w/ 40 of those points coming way back in 09-10. He's regressed in PPG year as well going from 0.39PPG to 0.31PPG. I don' think he will really want to go to an arbiter with those numbers.

Also, according to Capgeek Sutter can be tendered at $2.7M. That is slightly higher that what his worth likely is.

Also, $16M should be sufficient for what the Penguins need to do so long as youth is used at D. See below. Based on a $70M Cap w/ 23 players & no trades or buyouts. $548K in Cap Space left over. Players used aren't as important as being able to see what kind of $ the Penguins can send on each roster spot.

Not saying the Penguins shouldn't make any trades to move a player(s), *cough* Scuderi! *cough,* just that it isn't necessarily a "must" in so far as guys like Letang, Fleury, or Neal go from a Cap standpoint.

FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Jussi Jokinen ($3.000m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.000m) / Nikolai Kulemin ($3.000m)
Benoit Pouliot ($2.500m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Brian Gibbons ($0.600m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($7.250m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Simon Despres ($0.851m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,451,333; BONUSES: $68,333
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $548,667
- s0rcerer1984

You want to bring in Kulemin and not play him with Malkin???
Poulliot at 2.5? he s a four line player

You want to bring in Kulemin and not play him with Malkin???
Poulliot at 2.5? he s a four line player
- Brianandr1

As I said in my original post, the players aren't as important as the $ the Penguins can spend on each roster spot. If you don't like the player, swap them out for someone else at approx the same Cap hit. Honestly, until pending UFAS start getting resigned I don't see much of a point in attaching names who may so may not be available come July 1.

The roster I put together is just to showcase that the Penguins can afford to spend significant dollars on the 3rd and 4th lines without having to unload anyone so long as youth is used at D.

From mynhltraderumours.com

DePaoli lists three trade proposal’s for Neal.

1. James Neal and Simon Despres to Tampa Bay for Teddy Purcell, Brett Connelly and a 1st round pick, 17th overall.

2. James Neal to Edmonton for David Perron and Mitch Moroz.

3. James Neal to Winnipeg for Evander Kane.


I'd prefer Eberle + pick (2nd rounder) for Neal and despres

What are your thoughts?

From mynhltraderumours.com

DePaoli lists three trade proposal’s for Neal.

1. James Neal and Simon Despres to Tampa Bay for Teddy Purcell, Brett Connelly and a 1st round pick, 17th overall.

2. James Neal to Edmonton for David Perron and Mitch Moroz.

3. James Neal to Winnipeg for Evander Kane.


I'd prefer Eberle + pick (2nd rounder) for Neal and despres

What are your thoughts?
- ystoil

no for the EDM deal. Love Despres. No interest in moving him.

I still dont get people's love for Evander Kane on this board.

no for the EDM deal. Love Despres. No interest in moving him.

I still dont get people's love for Evander Kane on this board.
- SuperHenderson13

Yeah, I want to see Simon get a chance under a new coach and GM. He had some great games, and then for inexplicable reasons, would find himself in the press box. Dan and Ray mangled the handling of him. I said it several times during the playoffs, there is no earthly way Despres could have played worse than Scuderi this year.

Kane might not be the right player, but he's the right type of player. This team needs to get back to driving to the net. I'm convinced it's finally time to get a big, skilled wing for Sid.

I know it would be a mistake, but man would I love to see Gaborik play with our centers.

Remember when we wanted shero to pick Pearson in the draft and he fell and pens still didn't get him.... now look at him...
#fireshero