A hit can separate the puck from a player. That's a good thing. But if you can't do anything with it, or give it right back, or are forced to ice the puck -- there was no positive gain. That's where my issue with Rinaldo stems. Yes, he can separate pucks from players, but if there is no positive, tangible result of the play; it's useless.
- bradleyc4

I think hits in the ozone are generally considered good forechecking plays and hits in the defensive zone are normally plays where you are behind the play (I know not always).

It would be nice if they separated ozone hits from dzone hits. It would clear things up a little better I think.

I think it does play a role. I think defenseman make it an objective to know when Rinaldo is on the ice.

I know he doesn't offer much else, but I think a good hit or a few good hits in a row can get everyone going.

Sports isn't played in a vacuum. Energy is contagious.
- PhillySportsGuy

I agree from experience

If hits or fights truly led to more goals, why aren't teams hitting/fighting even more then? I think it's sensationalism.
- bradleyc4

Because fighting is so hard right now. Less and less players are willing to fight unless they have an advantage (you'll never see another Rob Ray/Tie Domi), and most players are smart enough to not fight when they're in control. It's why Carcillo is a moron. Well, it's one example.

I've played hockey for a good part of my life, and a good hit/fight can get a team some energy for sure. It doesn't mean you'll win, and it doesn't mean the other team will get demoralized. But it does get you up for a few shifts at minimum.

A hit can separate the puck from a player. That's a good thing. But if you can't do anything with it, or give it right back, or are forced to ice the puck -- there was no positive gain. That's where my issue with Rinaldo stems. Yes, he can separate pucks from players, but if there is no positive, tangible result of the play; it's useless.
- bradleyc4

If the first forechecker in, does his job, which is to take the body, does his job. And the other players fail to support the first forechecker, and come in to get the puck, I don't think that means that it's useless. It's a team game.

My gut thoughts on Rinaldo is that I don't care much if he stays, or if he goes. So maybe that apathy doesn't say much for Rinaldo
I agree that Rinaldo needs to add to his game. And find more ways to contribute, then just his physical game.

I do, 100%
- Giroux_Is_God

At most, I think it provides a temporary spark... if the tide doesn't turn in your favor within 30-60 seconds of the hit, I think the momentum is gone.

Psychologically, I think goals, scoring chances and big saves have a much more lasting contribution to momentum.

Because fighting is so hard right now. Less and less players are willing to fight unless they have an advantage (you'll never see another Rob Ray/Tie Domi), and most players are smart enough to not fight when they're in control. It's why Carcillo is a moron. Well, it's one example.

I've played hockey for a good part of my life, and a good hit/fight can get a team some energy for sure. It doesn't mean you'll win, and it doesn't mean the other team will get demoralized. But it does get you up for a few shifts at minimum.
- jmatchett383

nothing gets a Philly crowd started like a good hit/fight

I think hits in the ozone are generally considered good forechecking plays and hits in the defensive zone are normally plays where you are behind the play (I know not always).

It would be nice if they separated ozone hits from dzone hits. It would clear things up a little better I think.
- FlyersSteve118

I agree, I would like the see hits broken out by zone. Even just for curiosity's sake.

At most, I think it provides a temporary spark... if the tide doesn't turn in your favor within 30-60 seconds of the hit, I think the momentum is gone.

Psychologically, I think goals, scoring chances and big saves have a much more lasting contribution to momentum.
- Tomahawk

I don't think there's any question about that.

If hits or fights truly led to more goals, why aren't teams hitting/fighting even more then? I think it's sensationalism.
- bradleyc4

You need to pick your spots with both.

Advanced stats tell me that a baseball player shouldn't bunt because it's never worth giving up an out to advance a runner.

If there are runners on 1st and 2nd with no outs and my pitcher is up and the game is tied in the 7th inning, It's better to bunt in that situation.

If hits or fights truly led to more goals, why aren't teams hitting/fighting even more then? I think it's sensationalism.
- bradleyc4

If hits or fights really had no place in the game.. then why are they in the game?

The problem is that most people either over or under emphasize the impact they have. Hitting is has positive and negative effects.

Look at a few of the more memorable plays in recent Flyers history.

Claude Giroux throws a huge hit on Sidney Crosby. Scores a goal right after that. You think if he just scored a goal it would be as "memorable" or talked about. He went out and was flat out dominant. He physically punished Crosby and then scored. That combination completely set the tone for that game.

Look at Mike Richards shift against Mtl. Starts with a huge hit that causes a turnover and a scoring chance. Then goes back down the boards where a forward throws another hit that causes another turnover. Richards then shows sheer determination to get a loose puck... rest is history

Now imagine if Richards doesnt throw that first big hit causing the scoring chance, or if that second forward doesnt throw the hit to cause the turnover. If Richards just goes out and beats a lobbed pass and a streaking goalie to the puck.

Hits absolutely have an effect. Not only on the fans and players, but on the game as well..

Carcillo, Talbot, Game 6, up 3-0.
- jmatchett383

It's that he loses his mind sometimes. He can't be trusted, imho. Let him grow up and clean up his act somewhere else.
- Scoob

I would rather not have a player on the team that needs to be “controlled” and is in constant danger of getting a penalty or a suspension because they seem to have a screw loose.
While I also don’t like skating sides of beef, I’d rather have a McCarthy or a Brashear type over a Rinaldo or a Carbomb as long as they can keep up with the play and make safe plays with the puck.
If a Flyer is going to hurt someone, I’d rather it be with their fists rather than their stick, elbow or shoulder. (With one exception: Dave Brown - it was worth each and every game. Only wish it had been the Antichrist Hunter instead)

If the first forechecker in, does his job, which is to take the body, does his job. And the other players fail to support the first forechecker, and come in to get the puck, I don't think that means that it's useless. It's a team game.

My gut thoughts on Rinaldo is that I don't care much if he stays, or if he goes. So maybe that apathy doesn't say much for Rinaldo
I agree that Rinaldo needs to add to his game. And find more ways to contribute, then just his physical game.
- MJL

Of course. The checker can't play both roles -- hitter and puck retriever. There are just too many strikes against him as a player for me to want him in the lineup on a regular basis.

I just believe that he's hurting the team much more than he's helping.

At most, I think it provides a temporary spark... if the tide doesn't turn in your favor within 30-60 seconds of the hit, I think the momentum is gone.

Psychologically, I think goals, scoring chances and big saves have a much more lasting contribution to momentum.
- Tomahawk

30-60 seconds at a time are BIG moments in a hockey game. Look at two of the examples I just listed...

I agree from experience
- Giroux_Is_God

It's true in all sports.

Over the course of an entire season, things will balance out, but in certain moments, a good hit can help gain momentum.

Of course. The checker can't play both roles -- hitter and puck retriever. There are just too many strikes against him as a player for me to want him in the lineup on a regular basis.

I just believe that he's hurting the team much more than he's helping.
- bradleyc4

As of right now.. I completely agree with you.

I agree, I would like the see hits broken out by zone. Even just for curiosity's sake.
- bradleyc4

Or somehow quantify a hit that leads to a turnover. That would nice to see, because a lot of smart defensemen let a forechecker beat them to a puck just to check them into the boards and let the second dman take the puck.

Hextall should try and send Rinaldo out West, maybe to Calgary. After his awful and totally unnecessary headshot against Buffalo he will be targeted by the refs even more, and his poor defensive play and lack of puck skills will again doom him to be near the bottom of the team in +/-.

Or somehow quantify a hit that leads to a turnover. That would nice to see, because a lot of smart defensemen let a forechecker beat them to a puck just to check them into the boards and let the second dman take the puck.
- FlyersSteve118

Exactly... "Canceling out a guy"

I would rather not have a player on the team that needs to be “controlled” and is in constant danger of getting a penalty or a suspension because they seem to have a screw loose.
While I also don’t like skating sides of beef, I’d rather have a McCarthy or a Brashear type over a Rinaldo or a Carbomb as long as they can keep up with the play and make safe plays with the puck.
If a Flyer is going to hurt someone, I’d rather it be with their fists rather than their stick, elbow or shoulder. (With one exception: Dave Brown - it was worth each and every game. Only wish it had been the Antichrist Hunter instead)
- GeorgeBailey

Brashear type would be ideal. He was actually a hell of a hockey player.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Rinaldo's Role
- bmeltzer

Unless Rinaldo can show a bit more discipline and a bit more skill, I'd only be interested in him as the 13th/spare forward. I want guys on my 4th line that can at least chip in 7-10 goals and 15-25 points.

30-60 seconds at a time are BIG moments in a hockey game. Look at two of the examples I just listed...
- jak521

If Rinaldo could parlay a big hit at the beginning of a shift into a goal-for for his line, nobody would have a problem with him at all. He, and the current 4th-line, don't seem remotely close to being able to do that regularly, if at all.

If hits or fights really had no place in the game.. then why are they in the game?

The problem is that most people either over or under emphasize the impact they have. Hitting is has positive and negative effects.

Look at a few of the more memorable plays in recent Flyers history.

Claude Giroux throws a huge hit on Sidney Crosby. Scores a goal right after that. You think if he just scored a goal it would be as "memorable" or talked about. He went out and was flat out dominant. He physically punished Crosby and then scored. That combination completely set the tone for that game.

Look at Mike Richards shift against Mtl. Starts with a huge hit that causes a turnover and a scoring chance. Then goes back down the boards where a forward throws another hit that causes another turnover. Richards then shows sheer determination to get a loose puck... rest is history

Now imagine if Richards doesnt throw that first big hit causing the scoring chance, or if that second forward doesnt throw the hit to cause the turnover. If Richards just goes out and beats a lobbed pass and a streaking goalie to the puck.

Hits absolutely have an effect. Not only on the fans and players, but on the game as well..
- jak521

Agreed.

If hits or fights really had no place in the game.. then why are they in the game?

The problem is that most people either over or under emphasize the impact they have. Hitting is has positive and negative effects.

Look at a few of the more memorable plays in recent Flyers history.

Claude Giroux throws a huge hit on Sidney Crosby. Scores a goal right after that. You think if he just scored a goal it would be as "memorable" or talked about. He went out and was flat out dominant. He physically punished Crosby and then scored. It completely set the tone for that game.

Look at Mike Richards shift against Mtl. Starts with a huge hit that causes a turnover and a scoring chance. Then goes back down the boards where a forward throws another hit that causes another turnover. Richards than shows sheer determination to get a loose puck... rest is history

Now imagine if Richards doesnt throw that first big hit causing the scoring chance, or if that second forward doesnt throw the hit to cause the turnover. If Richards just goes out and beats a lobbed pass and a streaking goalie to the puck.

Hits absolutely have an effect. Not only on the fans and players, but on the game as well..
- jak521

A random hit here and there may end up being the direct cause of a goal, but they are likely so few and far between, imo.

Tones of a game can and do change on a whim.

Or somehow quantify a hit that leads to a turnover. That would nice to see, because a lot of smart defensemen let a forechecker beat them to a puck just to check them into the boards and let the second dman take the puck.
- FlyersSteve118

Yep, there are many ways to counter a strong forecheck. Rangers have been doing it vs. the Canadiens.