no. youre evaluating this far too much on the NOW quotient. if his deal had been for say 2 years, then fine. 4.5 mil for a veteran presence that may if healthy pot you 25 or whatever. why not.

but this is a player that the team is already struggling to find a fit for. at no point was it the plan to have him on the fourth line.

but i believe he has what, 4 or 5 more years left at this rate? assuming you cant wiggle out of it, how will this look say 2 or 3 years from now?
- stayinthefnnet

if next year turns out to be another dud for vinny so what? who cares just 2 more years of him just bury him on the 3rd/4th line and so be it, it happens

Hexy has to know how important a good D is to an organization and a goalie
- vejim

I'm sure he does. Hexy's biggest priority IMO is to get the scouting process improved. For all the chatter about Williams, Carter, and Richards, Lombardi has done a very good job of cultivating draftees to get to the NHL and be significant contributors up and down his line-up.

I expect changes to the blueline which includes at least one rookie cracking the top 6. However, if Kimmo isn't resigned, I would be surprised to see the Flyers pursue a big money d-man in free agency (ie Niskanen or Markov).

so you think points are the only things a player can bring to a team? Joe thornton is supposed to be the leader of the sharks and he sulks when another team scores a goal and the team adjusts accordingly

vinny is a winner and he brings great experience to this team that desperately needs it

where would crosby be without gary roberts? you can't deny he didn't help him out
- 2Real

okay. i will give you the leadership aspect. but as of now, it seems his presence is detrimental in at least some capacity to the younger players, if only because he plays the same position that they do and is taking away potential opportunities for growth and development.

and yes, gary roberts certainly helped. but if youre paying VL strictly to be a coach on the ice, thats an awfully expensive (and lengthy) contract to do it.

sure go ahead and pay giroux 8+ mil and joe thronton at 30+ 6-7 mil
- 2Real

If you gave me the option of Thornton at 6.75 or VL at 4.5, I would take Thornton every time

If you gave me the option of Thornton at 6.75 or VL at 4.5, I would take Thornton every time
- PhillySportsGuy

sure if i needed a 1st line center but we don't

If the Flyers could poach either one of Franson or Gardiner, it would be incredible... Leafs coaching staff could be driving them out of town with their singular obsession with turnovers:

http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=7052


(A bit stats-heavy at the top, but a video toward the middle to please the eyes)
- Tomahawk

No! Stay the hell away from Franson. He was awful as a leafs last season and if it weren't for his hot start he would have looked even worse!

sure if i needed a 1st line center but we don't
- 2Real

We didn't need a 2nd or 3rd line center either

if next year turns out to be another dud for vinny so what? who cares just 2 more years of him just bury him on the 3rd/4th line and so be it, it happens
- 2Real

the flyers have the luxury of being financially wealthy and prosperous. so that money in terms of actual dollars may be easily shrugged off. but, in the same vein, but for team that continuously pushes to the cap, 4.5 for someone to just be relegated to the fourth line. i dont see how that can be viewed in a positive light.

just by having to trot out the "bury him" phrase strongly indicates the connotation usually reserved for a mistake. which is what the VL deal was. it happens.

i did a mental jig when the pens brought back scuderi, and that ones right in the same neighborhood.

okay. i will give you the leadership aspect. but as of now, it seems his presence is detrimental in at least some capacity to the younger players, if only because he plays the same position that they do and is taking away potential opportunities for growth and development.

and yes, gary roberts certainly helped. but if youre paying VL strictly to be a coach on the ice, thats an awfully expensive (and lengthy) contract to do it.
- stayinthefnnet

Honestly, at best its 50-50 whether Vinny is on the roster by the end of training camp. If the Flyers are willing to eat a $1 million dollars on the cap hit, I think the chances of him being traded go up greatly.

My biggest beef with the team is B. Schenn a center or LW. Figure it out, and leave him there.

okay. i will give you the leadership aspect. but as of now, it seems his presence is detrimental in at least some capacity to the younger players, if only because he plays the same position that they do and is taking away potential opportunities for growth and development.

and yes, gary roberts certainly helped. but if youre paying VL strictly to be a coach on the ice, thats an awfully expensive (and lengthy) contract to do it.
- stayinthefnnet

vinny was brought in because the younger players haven't developed as desired
schenn is no where near ready to lead a 2nd line cooter looks more ready for that role but still isn't the best candidate
it's great to have vinny there as a stop gap

If you gave me the option of Thornton at 6.75 or VL at 4.5, I would take Thornton every time
- PhillySportsGuy

ha. and thorntons even on a shorter term!

If you gave me the option of Thornton at 6.75 or VL at 4.5, I would take Thornton every time
- PhillySportsGuy

If you could make that swap to the roster I would be ecstatic.

sure if i needed a 1st line center but we don't
- 2Real

There's nothing wrong with having two top centers. I don't want to trade for Thornton or anything but him and Giroux would scare the poop out the rest of the East.

vinny was brought in because the younger players haven't developed as desired
schenn is no where near ready to lead a 2nd line cooter looks more ready for that role but still isn't the best candidate
it's great to have vinny there as a stop gap
- 2Real

Vinny was brought in because they thought BSchenn could be a success at wing. They have basically admitted that he needs to play center.

vinny was brought in because the younger players haven't developed as desired
schenn is no where near ready to lead a 2nd line cooter looks more ready for that role but still isn't the best candidate
it's great to have vinny there as a stop gap
- 2Real

yeah, he was a great stop gap on the fourth line.

and schenn likely wont develop properly constantly being shifted around from position to position. forcing schenn to concede in order to ensure that VL fits on the second line would be foolish to me.

vinny was brought in because the younger players haven't developed as desired
schenn is no where near ready to lead a 2nd line cooter looks more ready for that role but still isn't the best candidate
it's great to have vinny there as a stop gap
- 2Real

delete

There's nothing wrong with having two top centers. I don't want to trade for Thornton or anything but him and Giroux would scare the poop out the rest of the East.



Vinny was brought in because they thought BSchenn could be a success at wing. They have basically admitted that he needs to play center.
- Feanor

sure yea but you'd have nearly 15 mil committed to 2 players that are no shows in the playoffs

If you could make that swap to the roster I would be ecstatic.
- hereticpride

I know. Sharks are all about fancy stats though. They wouldn't take VL if their lives depended on it

yeah, he was a great stop gap on the fourth line.

and schenn likely wont develop properly constantly being shifted around from position to position. forcing schenn to concede in order to ensure that VL fits on the second line would be foolish to me.
- stayinthefnnet

no but schenn isn't ready to hold 2nd line minutes every night VL started out on a nice tear before he got injured

yeah, he was a great stop gap on the fourth line.

and schenn likely wont develop properly constantly being shifted around from position to position. forcing schenn to concede in order to ensure that VL fits on the second line would be foolish to me.
- stayinthefnnet

They already put briere with schenn and delayed his development. They did the same thing this past season with VL. He needs legit nhl wingers

They already put briere with schenn and delayed his development. They did the same thing this past season with VL. He needs legit nhl wingers
- PhillySportsGuy

exactly. if they want to get their moneys worth out of him, they need to make moves to highlight him.

i still think the most ideal, while not necessarily the most realistically attainable, course of action as far as forwards go would be to find a good replacement for jake on the first line, then put jake on the second with schenn. set it like that, and leave it the (frank) alone for a good stretch of the season, and see what brayden delivers.

sure if i needed a 1st line center but we don't
- 2Real

If we had Thornton Schenn would be booted to the wing and he would instantly succeed with him. Thornton makes everyone he plays with better. Obviously we will never get him but I wouldn't mind a guy like Marleau on Giroux's wing

If we had Thornton Schenn would be booted to the wing and he would instantly succeed with him. Thornton makes everyone he plays with better. Obviously we will never get him but I wouldn't mind a guy like Marleau on Giroux's wing
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Thornton Marleau Giroux?

talk about dead cap space when talking about playoffs performers

no but schenn isn't ready to hold 2nd line minutes every night VL started out on a nice tear before he got injured
- 2Real

schenn isnt ready to carry a line of crap, no. but by being put into a position to succeed, he might.

exactly. if they want to get their moneys worth out of him, they need to make moves to highlight him.

i still think the most ideal, while not necessarily the most realistically attainable, course of action as far as forwards go would be to find a good replacement for jake on the first line, then put jake on the second with schenn. set it like that, and leave it the (frank) alone for a good stretch of the season, and see what brayden delivers.
- stayinthefnnet

Vinny Giroux Simmonds
Hartnell Schenn Voracek
Raffl Cooter Read

Thornton Marleau Giroux?

talk about dead cap space when talking about playoffs performers
- 2Real

youll be wasting money on VL for nearly twice as long as you would either of the sharks.