I'd say the opposite. His track record in acquiring defenseman is very strong.
- MJL

Eminger was an awful trade

Parent never even became an NHL player

Sbisa still hasn't established himself with the Ducks. (You can choose to blame scouting or rushing him into the NHL and having him play forward)

He traded Pitkanen for Lupul and Jason Smith. It wasn't a terrible trade by any means. Smith provided good leadership and Lupul was a top 6 player. I still would have rather had a top pairing defenseman like Pitkanen developed into.

Edit: Overall, he's done alright. Getting Carle, Coburn and Timonen were all great moves. I give him an incomplete on Pronger and Mez as injuries limited their ability to help the team long term.

Eminger was an awful trade

Parent never even became an NHL player

Sbisa still hasn't established himself with the Ducks. (You can choose to blame scouting or rushing him into the NHL and having him play forward)

He traded Pitkanen for Lupul and Jason Smith. It wasn't a terrible trade by any means. Smith provided good leadership and Lupul was a top 6 player. I still would have rather had a top pairing defenseman like Pitkanen developed into.
- PhillySportsGuy

No GM is going to have a perfect record. He's made a lot of good deals for good defenseman. I wish they would draft defenseman as well as they do in trading for them.

I know. I would be hoping more for 6-6.5M.

If Niskanen is willing to accept 6 years $6M AAV, the Flyers should take a hard look at that.

I would understand if he wanted more and they walked away.
- PhillySportsGuy

That seems like an over payment to me, take into consideration the breadth of his play over the past few seasons as well. I truly expect him to get a deal similar to what Carle got from Tampa.
Also, I'm not sure the Flyers have the space to bring him in and resign the likes of Schenn, Akeson, Hall, McGinn, and I think Gus is also a RFA this year?
Also, Nisky at even 5 million makes for a top four of Coburn, MacD, Streit, and Nisky valued at what? 20 million?? That's a lot of dough.

Yeah, the low-hanging fruit is the player who's just had a terrific contract year.

I'm more interested in guys with potential and strong underlying metrics, but who are struggling (badly)... those are the players that I can extract the most value out of trade-wise.

Think Niskanen circa 2009-13.
- Tomahawk

I know. Those guys aren't that easy to find though. Not all free agents are bad signings. Timonen was a big signing and he's been worth every penny.

No GM is going to have a perfect record. He's made a lot of good deals for good defenseman. I wish they would draft defenseman as well as they do in trading for them.
- MJL

Yeah. I edited because I didn't want to seem like I was killing him.

The reason I can't give him great marks for defenseman is because of the draft. He's been the GM for 8 years and the Flyers don't have any drafted defenseman on the NHL roster.

Theres a good chance they won't have any on the roster for the duration of next year as well.

Yeah. I edited because I didn't want to seem like I was killing him.

The reason I can't give him great marks for defenseman is because of the draft. He's been the GM for 8 years and the Flyers don't have any drafted defenseman on the NHL roster.

Theres a good chance they won't have any on the roster for the duration of next year as well.
- PhillySportsGuy

Drafting record on defenseman is a legitimate criticism. I was looking at trades and Free agent signings for defensman. Hopefully some of the young defenseman help turn that drafting track record around.

Yeah. Its difficult to find those defenseman who have struggled, but are on the verge of becoming established top 4 dmen. It requires patience as well. If the player isn't producing for the first half of the season, are they going to sell?
- PhillySportsGuy

moral of the story, you need to find your own niskanen

That seems like an over payment to me, take into consideration the breadth of his play over the past few seasons as well. I truly expect him to get a deal similar to what Carle got from Tampa.
Also, I'm not sure the Flyers have the space to bring him in and resign the likes of Schenn, Akeson, Hall, McGinn, and I think Gus is also a RFA this year?
Also, Nisky at even 5 million makes for a top four of Coburn, MacD, Streit, and Nisky valued at what? 20 million?? That's a lot of dough.
- usethe1-2-2

Flyers would need to move some salary. I think they plan on trying to move VL anyway.

I wouldn't pay $7M for Niskanen. I would pay $6M though.

Carle is making $5.5M. He signed that deal 2 years ago. $6-6.5M seems like the correct amount to me. Look at what guys like Horton and Clarkson got. I know they're forwards, but it gives you an idea of what the market is like during free agency. There just aren't many 40 point, top 4 defenseman available. However, there are several teams who need a player like that.

I know. Those guys aren't that easy to find though.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think that's where fancy stats can really help GM's... uncovering diamonds in the rough.

That seems like an over payment to me, take into consideration the breadth of his play over the past few seasons as well. I truly expect him to get a deal similar to what Carle got from Tampa.
Also, I'm not sure the Flyers have the space to bring him in and resign the likes of Schenn, Akeson, Hall, McGinn, and I think Gus is also a RFA this year?
Also, Nisky at even 5 million makes for a top four of Coburn, MacD, Streit, and Nisky valued at what? 20 million?? That's a lot of dough.
- usethe1-2-2

if niskanen signs somewhere long term for only 5 per, and its not with the pens. i will take back every good thing ive ever said about shero.

moral of the story, you need to find your own niskanen
- stayinthefnnet

Yes, and hopefully we get a sans-elbows Neal to go along with him.

Drafting record on defenseman is a legitimate criticism. I was looking at trades and Free agent signings for defensman. Hopefully some of the young defenseman help turn that drafting track record around.
- MJL

Yeah. Its been a while since they've had a good GROUP of defensive prospects.

if niskanen signs somewhere long term for only 5 per, and its not with the pens. i will take back every good thing ive ever said about shero.
- stayinthefnnet

He will get more than 5. You can take that to the bank

Yeah. Its been a while since they've had a good GROUP of defensive prospects.
- PhillySportsGuy

Hard to do that when you're spending such a high % of the cap on middling guys like Randy Jones, AMac, Meszaros, etc.

edit: Just realized you said prospects, lol.

Spot on. The only only clear solution to me is to move Lecavalier or Schenn, and bring in a natural winger. I would look towards signing Gaborik or Vanek, but as a wise man once said: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". To me, trading an older player with a big contract to make room to sign an older player to a big contract just seems silly.

He will get more than 5. You can take that to the bank
- PhillySportsGuy

oh yeah. i just would look at carle and widemans deals. he is better than both of them. the cap has gone up since. the market, if at all possible, has gotten even smaller from a buyer's perspective, and more and more teams are realizing the need for those kind of defenders.

couple this with a strong postseason performance, and the dudes ducks are certainly in a row for the brinks truck.

Yes, and hopefully we get a sans-elbows Neal to go along with him.
- Tomahawk

do you guys have any goligoskis laying around?

He will get more than 5. You can take that to the bank
- PhillySportsGuy

I honestly wouldn't give him more than 5 aav for 5 years. That would be my max, but I have heard that teams like Colorado are looking heavily into Niskanen. When it is all said and done, I'm hoping the Penguins can pull off a trade of his rights and snag a 3rd or 4th round pick, not unlike the Hamuis situation a few years back.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Finding a Fit for Lecavalier
- bmeltzer

this should create about 1000 hits of arguing today.

do you guys have any goligoskis laying around?
- stayinthefnnet

Our Goligoski is 36 years-old.

I honestly wouldn't give him more than 5 aav for 5 years. That would be my max, but I have heard that teams like Colorado are looking heavily into Niskanen. When it is all said and done, I'm hoping the Penguins can pull off a trade of his rights and snag a 3rd or 4th round pick, not unlike the Hamuis situation a few years back.
- usethe1-2-2

i dont see it as being realistic to even think hed only get that, but id certainly try to move heaven and earth to fit him in for anything under 6.

above 6, and it might not be possible. hell, even 6 and under will be tough. letang's raise kicks in, likely eating up any relief from the cap going up. hopefully they allow orpik to go.

Flyers can't afford that Cap hit for a 4th liner. And they need to add better skating wingers. Not another power forward in the mold of Hartnell.
- MJL

you're right. hartnell is definitely moldy.

I think that's where fancy stats can really help GM's... uncovering diamonds in the rough.
- Tomahawk

I agree with you. I would like to see about a guy like Adam Larsson who is in AHL for Devils and seemed to regress or Rundbland or Del Zotto if no QO is given by nashville

(frank), I forgot to save room for Yakupov.
- Tomahawk

Excuse, I have to go and have your capgeek access revoked now....

do you guys have any goligoskis laying around?
- stayinthefnnet

Nope.

Go fish.