ROFL, no idea what I did there. You're 100% right.

With that said, though, the difference isn't great. Both guys are around the same career P/60, even with AMac enjoying generally better teammates and more PP-time.
- Tomahawk

No worries. It will be interesting to see where Butler eventually signs. I guess Calgary don't want to pay him what he's asking for or they would have already locked him up.

Maybe Holmgren will trade them Grossmann for his FA rights.

I still think they can get Niskanen and keep AMac as long as they can do the following:
1. Don't re-sign Timonen
2. Trade Grossmann for whatever pick you can get for him
3. Trade VL for whatever pick you can get for him, and eat 20% of the contract and cap hit.
4. Fill holes with kids and low cost vets wherever possible and reasonable

Lineup
Hartnell-G-Voracek
Akeson-Schenn-Simmonds
Read-Couturier-Raffl
UFA Vet-Laughton-Rinaldo
spare: Rosehill or McGinn
D
Niskanen-Coburn
AMac-Schenn
Streit-Alt
Spare: UFA Journeyman or Lauridsen
G
Mason
UFA vet

I think the above is financially doable
- BiggE

That would work for me. No matter what, I don't want VL on the team next year. He makes them worse just being on the ice.

I still think they can get Niskanen and keep AMac as long as they can do the following:
1. Don't re-sign Timonen
2. Trade Grossmann for whatever pick you can get for him
3. Trade VL for whatever pick you can get for him, and eat 20% of the contract and cap hit.
4. Fill holes with kids and low cost vets wherever possible and reasonable

Lineup
Hartnell-G-Voracek
Akeson-Schenn-Simmonds
Read-Couturier-Raffl
UFA Vet-Laughton-Rinaldo
spare: Rosehill or McGinn
D
Niskanen-Coburn
AMac-Schenn
Streit-Alt
Spare: UFA Journeyman or Lauridsen
G
Mason
UFA vet

I think the above is financially doable
- BiggE

No love at all for Vinny. I think he may be better next season....

No worries. It will be interesting to see where Butler eventually signs. I guess Calgary don't want to pay him what he's asking for or they would have already locked him up.

Maybe Holmgren will trade them Grossmann for his FA rights.
- Feanor

They just hired a new GM, so who knows.

Yes, but you are missing the fact that Mac is already signed. Niskanen would be another hefty deal and that money should go to someone better than Niskanen.
- GOA88

Who are we saving it for? Subban offer sheet?

No idea why you guys are arguing about defensemen when the forwards have clearly dropped the ball so far this series.

The Flyers have 10 goals in 5 games. MacDonald has 2 points, a goal and an assist, 1 assist less than Giroux. Streit has a goal and Schenn has a goal. 7 goals over 5 games from our forwards.

Voracek has 2 goals. 5 goals over 5 games from the rest of the forwards. And we're talking about MacDonald, the time on ice leader for the Flyers, as if he is somehow not getting the job done.

I thought Amac looked very solid after the Flyers picked him up at the TDL.
He solidified the D and I think was part of the reason the team made a strong push and made it to the playoffs.

That said, he has looked very rocky at times in this series and inconsistent at best.
He looks more like the player the Isles fans were complaining about.

I don't mind the signing but would have been happier looking at the long term picture if they kept the draft picks and just gave him the same offer this summer.
He is a useful guy who will help the team down the road and is only 27.

Especially the way they have played so far this series. I guess I would have been a seller at the TDL, see what they could get for vets who are not part of the team next season. Now Grossmann has another knee injury and no one will trade for him.

Still, they made their bed. Water under the bridge and all that. Now play the way they are capable of and force a game seven.

Who are we saving it for? Subban offer sheet?
- PhillySportsGuy

I'm hoping for Shea Weber, via trade at the draft.

No idea why you guys are arguing about defensemen when the forwards have clearly dropped the ball so far this series.

The Flyers have 10 goals in 5 games. MacDonald has 2 points, a goal and an assist, 1 assist less than Giroux. Streit has a goal and Schenn has a goal. 7 goals over 5 games from our forwards.

Voracek has 2 goals. 5 goals over 5 games from the rest of the forwards. And we're talking about MacDonald, the time on ice leader for the Flyers, as if he is somehow not getting the job done.


- wolfhounds

The defenseman and forwards are tied together in terms of offensive production and defensive capabilities.

This series has shown the true limitations of our defense. None of them have the skill to skate the puck up ice. The forwards are forced to come all the way back and help with every outlet. It prevents them from hitting center ice with momentum.

I'm not saying the forwards aren't at fault for anything, but it's difficult to get on the offensive when your D needs so much help.

I'm hoping for Shea Weber, via trade at the draft.
- GOA88

Thats not happening, so just stop hoping.

The Flyers have been a good drafting team and Homer has won most of his trades. His signings have been bad though. Can you imagine this team if they didn't have the compliance buyouts? He moves two bad contracts out and more bad contracts in. It's like he has no hindsight in any of these deals.
- PhillySportsGuy

The Flyers have drafted very well in the first round. However, their picks after that have been spotty at best and often poor. In particular, their ability to draft and develop D/G has been atrocious - perhaps the worst in the NHL. I am not including the last 2-3 drafts because the jury is still out. There are some recent positive signs so I'm hoping the trend has been reversed a bit from most of the 2000s.

I thought Amac looked very solid after the Flyers picked him up at the TDL.
He solidified the D and I think was part of the reason the team made a strong push and made it to the playoffs.

That said, he has looked very rocky at times in this series and inconsistent at best.
He looks more like the player the Isles fans were complaining about.
- Marc D

Him and Kimmo seem to be banged up and fatigued. They are both playing below their best efforts from the regular season, which is not surprising consider Kimmo's age and the stupid minutes the Islanders gave MacDonald.

If you recall Kimmo missed game 81 against Pittsburgh and then Mac skipped game 82.

No idea why you guys are arguing about defensemen when the forwards have clearly dropped the ball so far this series.

The Flyers have 10 goals in 5 games. MacDonald has 2 points, a goal and an assist, 1 assist less than Giroux. Streit has a goal and Schenn has a goal. 7 goals over 5 games from our forwards.

Voracek has 2 goals. 5 goals over 5 games from the rest of the forwards. And we're talking about MacDonald, the time on ice leader for the Flyers, as if he is somehow not getting the job done.


- wolfhounds

The extra ice time has not been kind to Amac this series.
He does make Luke better but he has been pretty shaky I think.

I agree with Bill, Streit and Grossmann were the best most consistent pair before Nik went down.

No idea why you guys are arguing about defensemen when the forwards have clearly dropped the ball so far this series.

The Flyers have 10 goals in 5 games. MacDonald has 2 points, a goal and an assist, 1 assist less than Giroux. Streit has a goal and Schenn has a goal. 7 goals over 5 games from our forwards.

Voracek has 2 goals. 5 goals over 5 games from the rest of the forwards. And we're talking about MacDonald, the time on ice leader for the Flyers, as if he is somehow not getting the job done.


- wolfhounds

The forwards have been dreadful...

Thats not happening, so just stop hoping.
- PhillySportsGuy

Then we can enjoy another 10 years cupless if you ask me.

Him and Kimmo seem to be banged up and fatigued. They are both playing below their best efforts from the regular season, which is not surprising consider Kimmo's age and the stupid minutes the Islanders gave MacDonald.

If you recall Kimmo missed game 81 against Pittsburgh and then Mac skipped game 82.
- Feanor

Kimmo not being at his best has really stung.
The first PP relies a lot on him.
Now pucks sent his way are about 50/50 staying in or leaving the zone.

The Flyers have drafted very well in the first round. However, their picks after that have been spotty at best and often poor. In particular, their ability to draft and develop D/G has been atrocious - perhaps the worst in the NHL. I am not including the last 2-3 drafts because the jury is still out. There are some recent positive signs so I'm hoping the trend has been reversed a bit from most of the 2000s.
- BOSS_TWEED

I think one of their problems has been trading away 2nd round picks. There are still decent players around in the 2nd round.

The Flyers have drafted very well in the first round. However, their picks after that have been spotty at best and often poor. In particular, their ability to draft and develop D/G has been atrocious - perhaps the worst in the NHL. I am not including the last 2-3 drafts because the jury is still out. There are some recent positive signs so I'm hoping the trend has been reversed a bit from most of the 2000s.
- BOSS_TWEED

When was the last time the Flyers found high end NHL prospect after the first round?

The forwards have been dreadful...
- GOA88

Yup
Other then Jake and maybe Art Ross Akeson they are being outplayed soundly by the rangers.

Couts has been OK for a youngster.

I think one of their problems has been trading away 2nd round picks. There are still decent players around in the 2nd round.
- PhillySportsGuy

The only problem is that we have a terrible track record with 2nd round picks...

See: 2007 NHL draft. Second round.

We moved up to take a d-man. Kevin Marshall.

Next d-man selected. PK Subban

When was the last time the Flyers found high end NHL prospect after the first round?
- jak521

Ghost, and then I'd say you'd have to go all the way back to Sharp and Seidenberg in 2001.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...elphia_Flyers_draft_picks

The only problem is that we have a terrible track record with 2nd round picks...

See: 2007 NHL draft. Second round.

We moved up to take a d-man. Kevin Marshall.

Next d-man selected. PK Subban
- jak521

I remember they thought Marshall would be a "true flyer" that worked out......

The defenseman and forwards are tied together in terms of offensive production and defensive capabilities.

This series has shown the true limitations of our defense. None of them have the skill to skate the puck up ice. The forwards are forced to come all the way back and help with every outlet. It prevents them from hitting center ice with momentum.

I'm not saying the forwards aren't at fault for anything, but it's difficult to get on the offensive when your D needs so much help.
- PhillySportsGuy

Sorry, but no way I'm letting our offense off the hook that easily.

Sorry, but no way I'm letting our offense off the hook that easily.
- wolfhounds

AGREED!!! They are capable of much more than this. I tend to think Berubes gameplan or lack of one has hurt the team this series. Flyers are not a sit back and play safe team. They are best when on the full attack.

The only problem is that we have a terrible track record with 2nd round picks...

See: 2007 NHL draft. Second round.

We moved up to take a d-man. Kevin Marshall.

Next d-man selected. PK Subban
- jak521

PK was the ultimate high risk high reward pick.
I remember the world jrs, the Canadian coaches were afraid to play him because he was such a loose canon. The Flyers went safe. Didn't work.